Obama Admin Defends Dropping Doctors' Conscience Protections

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my advice to doctors: Don’t become one if you’re super anti-abortion. Doctors are there to do the job of letting others decide, not persons who should decide.
 
Clearly a violation of the First Amendment. Requiring doctors to dispense birth control or perform / refer abortions is just flat out ridiculous. None of these are life saving medical procedures and there is no reason to force doctors to do them other than purely political motives.
 
my advice to doctors: Don’t become one if you’re super anti-abortion. Doctors are there to do the job of letting others decide, not persons who should decide.
Except, I could say that they aren’t deciding for anyone most of the time when they object to a procedure on the basis of conscience. They’re just telling them to ask someone else for it, because after all it’s not as though they can hit a button and put an abortion-abort notice into every doctor’s office in the world.
 
I do a lot of things as a nurse that I do not agree with. I would draw the line at assisting with abortions.

However, patients on a regimen of birth control pills who are admitted to the hospital usually still receive them in the hospital. My job involves dispensing medications. I have never been called upon to give birth control or RU-486, because i generally work in Catholic hospitals, but a Catholic friend of mine was. She asked another nurse to do it.

If I went to work for a secular health care company, I would probably have to dispense birth control. I would not have a problem with that. I am not taking it myself, and I have no right to impose Catholic beliefs on a non Catholic. I would draw the line at RU486.

I have worked with Jehovah’s Witness nurses who would literally stand there and let someone DIE rather than start a blood transfusion. They usually just ask another nurse to do it, but not always. I worked with a nurse that waited 3 hours until she went off shift, then told me that I could hang it, because Jehovah commanded us to not ‘eat blood’.

I don’t know what the answer is.
 
^ I think you’re morally in the clear dispensing BC. We must give the patients the benefit of the doubt, and there ARE many legitimate uses for BC that have nothing to do with birth control. Still, it was never something I looked forward to when I worked at the drugstore.
 
my advice to doctors: Don’t become one if you’re super anti-abortion. Doctors are there to do the job of letting others decide, not persons who should decide.
Great logic. What is your recommendation for all of us patients who would really rather have doctors who don’t kill other human beings? If only pro-abortion people became doctors, we would lose all sense of morality in the practice of medicine.

More realistic- if you are pro-life, don’t become an abortionist. Duh. Every other practice of medicine is supposed to respect and protect life.
 
my advice to doctors: Don’t become one if you’re super anti-abortion. Doctors are there to do the job of letting others decide, not persons who should decide.
An unsound position, when you consider the requirements of professionalism.
 
Great logic. What is your recommendation for all of us patients who would really rather have doctors who don’t kill other human beings? If only pro-abortion people became doctors, we would lose all sense of morality in the practice of medicine.
Corki, you hit the nail on the head. Parents get outraged when they learn that a doctor killed their disabled baby without informing or asking for the parents’ approval. People also get outraged when they learn about abuses like the one that happened at New Orleans’ Memorial Hospital right after Hurricane Katrina, where a doctor (Anna Pou) and two nurses “played God” and killed 9 (nine) patients, by injecting them with a lethal mixture of morphine and midazolam.

However, a lot of people fail to realize that THIS is what you get when you employ doctors and nurses who daily carry out murders (abortion, euthanasia) in another wing of the hospital, and have been desensitized to the sin of murder. Also, at Memorial Hospital apparently it was a joint decision of the management and doctors/staff to kill these 9 patients.

The bottom line is this: in a hospital where the management and the healthcare professionals routinely kill people “legally” (because some forms of killing like abortion are legal now), they will easily cross the line and make such decisions on their own, deciding that so-and-so must die. They will kill disabled babies, terminally ill patients, elderly people, without asking anyone else’s permission. DEAR READER, YOU COULD BE NEXT!
 
Obama Admin Defends Dropping Doctors’ Conscience Protections

Washington, DC – In a letter to several pro-life groups complaining about President Barack Obama’s decision to drop some of the conscience protections for medical professionals, the administration is defending the decision.

lifenews.com/2011/05/10/obama-admin-defends-dropping-doctors-conscience-protections/
I would recommend a different line of work. I was accepted into the University of New Englands School of Osteopathic Medicine and dropped out because of the continuing erosion and government control over our health care industry. I wanted to practice holistic medicine on terms that me and my patients agreed on, but insurance companies, backed by regulation and legislation, have forced themselves into the middle of that once sacred relationship.
 
I do a lot of things as a nurse that I do not agree with. I would draw the line at assisting with abortions.

However, patients on a regimen of birth control pills who are admitted to the hospital usually still receive them in the hospital. My job involves dispensing medications. I have never been called upon to give birth control or RU-486, because i generally work in Catholic hospitals, but a Catholic friend of mine was. She asked another nurse to do it.

If I went to work for a secular health care company, I would probably have to dispense birth control. I would not have a problem with that. I am not taking it myself, and I have no right to impose Catholic beliefs on a non Catholic. I would draw the line at RU486.

I have worked with Jehovah’s Witness nurses who would literally stand there and let someone DIE rather than start a blood transfusion. They usually just ask another nurse to do it, but not always. I worked with a nurse that waited 3 hours until she went off shift, then told me that I could hang it, because Jehovah commanded us to not ‘eat blood’.

I don’t know what the answer is.
Religious beliefs or not, unless the patient specifically said no to any blood transfusions, that nurse had a duty to start one. I would keep an eye on her. She could be brought up on murder charges.
 
I would recommend a different line of work. I was accepted into the University of New Englands School of Osteopathic Medicine and dropped out because of the continuing erosion and government control over our health care industry. I wanted to practice holistic medicine on terms that me and my patients agreed on, but insurance companies, backed by regulation and legislation, have forced themselves into the middle of that once sacred relationship.
I would fear government control of medicine a lot more than I would fear insurance company control. After all, what insurance company insists that health professionals participate in abortions even if, in good conscience, they cannot do so? I have never heard of one.
 
I would fear government control of medicine a lot more than I would fear insurance company control. After all, what insurance company insists that health professionals participate in abortions even if, in good conscience, they cannot do so? I have never heard of one.
It is an endemic problem. Insurance lobbyists spend a ton of money to get the laws that they want passed.
 
my advice to doctors: Don’t become one if you’re super anti-abortion. Doctors are there to do the job of letting others decide, not persons who should decide.
abortion is an elective procedure, we don’t force doctors to perform plastic surgery so why should they be forced to do abortions?
 
While I find abortion repugnant, I was thinking about the ramifications of allowing each nurse, doctor, etc. to use the conscience in the hospital and I was thinking that it could cause chaos in some ways. Birth control would be a conscience item, assisting in a tubal ligation, morning after pill, vasectomy, for some a D&C operation could be taken to be an abortion (many are), and it might sound silly but pain medication even could fall into this conscience thing. There are nurses and doctors who think that giving someone pain medication is just masking the problem…

I’m wondering about the ethics of working in a place where one feels compelled to not participate in the first place? If abortion is the same as a Nazi death camp, who would want to sign up to work at a Nazi death camp as a janitor or a maintenance worker or a guard? The nurse who says, “I refuse to work in that abortion surgery in there, you go do it for me!” is tantamount to saying in a Nazi death camp, “I won’t gas those prisoners in there, you go do it for me” rather than truly being a fighter and just not working there at all?

I’m wondering why someone that compelled to be opposed to these issues would want to work there in the first place? Just my rambling thoughts here…

For example, I’m a teacher. I’ve taught 13 years. So far nothing I teach the kids at sixth grade is something I object to. But the minute I’m told to teach homosexuality or gay history as some are trying to get passed, I’ll have to change careers. Having another teacher do it “for me” and teach my kids about the gay lifestyle means they’re still going to get taught it!! The point isn’t “who” is teaching them gay is ok, the point is they are being taught that! So I’d want out of the whole thing!?

With pharmacists, where would it end? A pharmacist might not want to sell someone fish oil capsules saying “this probably has mercury in it or fall out from the Japan nuclear fiasco, I’m not selling this to anyone. You do it for me…” Same with birth control pills or herbal supplements or Vicoden. Some people might be opposed to dispensing such things.

Tough call…
 
For example, I’m a teacher. I’ve taught 13 years. So far nothing I teach the kids at sixth grade is something I object to. But the minute I’m told to teach homosexuality or gay history as some are trying to get passed, I’ll have to change careers. Having another teacher do it “for me” and teach my kids about the gay lifestyle means they’re still going to get taught it!! The point isn’t “who” is teaching them gay is ok, the point is they are being taught that! So I’d want out of the whole thing!?
I am also a teacher, although now I wear more hats in education, and teach less than I consult. I think you brought up a good parallel, and one I have also brought up on similar threads…because I think that there’s a point of no return here. There’s an entire ethic that is represented in secular hospitals in this country. That ethic is substantially different, in certain critical ways, than is reflected in Catholic morality, which in turn is what dominates Catholic hospitals. Bishop Olmstead made that clear in his press conference on the Phoenix event – a press conference which was linked in one of the CAF threads which discussed that event some time ago.

Gurney, I have taught in schools which “celebrate,” educationally and in practical ways, homosexuality. Luckily, I was not personally asked to ‘present Gay history,’ but I came close to having to accompany a class on the infamous field trip which was publicized nationwide, and once I got to that proximate position, I knew it was time to bow out of direct teaching in the public schools. (I actually teach K-12, but I won’t sign any public school contract now in my State, except for select positions which I know ahead of time will not require such teaching. Thus, for me that would really mean single-subject assignments in which I was told the curriculum ahead of time, or given freedom to create my own curriculum.) If I accept a position in administration or in teaching, generally it is only in private schools.

And I agree with your comment about “having another teacher do it for you.” To me, this is just a rationalization. I would still be participating in the amoral mission of the school, by being on its staff. It’s way too hard to slice-and-dice one’s participation in such institutions. And since medical personnel have so many different situations they are encountering than a teacher in a classroom, I don’t know how one contorts oneself into a pretzel on a daily basis without getting an ulcer, not to mention getting fired. Certainly that would be true in the Ob-Gyn specialty, but clearly it could be true in Gerontology with regard to life issues, and in Oncology with regard to life issues (terminal illness).

I don’t know what the practice is in secular hospitals with regard to disclosure. It seems to me that the hospital’s overall policies should be published in plain view, and where that needs refinement, each specialty should provide that also, as a statement of practices, for admitting patients to review. No medical professional working there should then be surprised at what transpires in that hospital. Naturally, when it comes to terminal illness, any patient should review ahead of time with the hospital and loved ones, what his or her wishes are, and the more those wishes conflict with the usual policy at such hospitals, the more urgent it is for that patient to communicate such wishes.

There’s another option, of course: that option is to decide that you will use your career as an opportunity to be an activist, opposing that institution’s practices. I suppose that could be a way to spend your life if you enjoy daily activism. For me, I would rather spend my life contributing constructively than being in perpetual opposition to my employer.
 
I do a lot of things as a nurse that I do not agree with. I would draw the line at assisting with abortions.

However, patients on a regimen of birth control pills who are admitted to the hospital usually still receive them in the hospital. My job involves dispensing medications. I have never been called upon to give birth control or RU-486, because i generally work in Catholic hospitals, but a Catholic friend of mine was. She asked another nurse to do it.

If I went to work for a secular health care company, I would probably have to dispense birth control. I would not have a problem with that. I am not taking it myself, and I have no right to impose Catholic beliefs on a non Catholic. I would draw the line at RU486.

I have worked with Jehovah’s Witness nurses who would literally stand there and let someone DIE rather than start a blood transfusion. They usually just ask another nurse to do it, but not always. I worked with a nurse that waited 3 hours until she went off shift, then told me that I could hang it, because Jehovah commanded us to not ‘eat blood’.

I don’t know what the answer is.
I hope you told your supervisor. She blatantly refused to administer a treatment ordered by a physician. :eek: I don’t know about where you work, but if there is a policy that dictates a time limit to starting a doctor’s order, I hope she gets proper disciplinary action for doing what she did. I’d keep my eye on her for your patients’ sake, they will need their advocate some day.

Where I work, a written policy exists on the requirement of starting an antibiotic within one hour of the order given, and if the antibiotic is not given within one hour of the order written, the nurse receiving the order (or the nurse responsible for carrying out the order) gets written up for making a medication error.
 
So, you are saying that “For the life and health of the mother” it is ok to commit one’s own self “To the death and anarchy of the unborn infant”?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism
It was in quotes to express a sense of satire to the statement. There is one one case where a child is aborted to save the life of the mother, an ectopic pregnancy. And the child is not directly aborted. The embryo has emplanted itself outside of the uterus, making it non-viable anyway and if allowed to grow will kill the mother.
 
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