Obama Admin knew millions could not keep their health ins.

[bellasbane]

Iwent without minimal insurance for a decade that only covered serious illness and I afforded getting sick just fine.** I took the upmost care of myself. I** relied on natural remedies and when a doctors call was in order I had a savings for that. That was a personal choice and I expect no one to be responsible for my decisions. I am happy to have the freedoms to choose what I think is the best care for my own body. Obamacare takes that freedom away and forces upon me things I do not want nor need.** I do agree we need to care for one another and have compassion for the sick, even those that are self inflicted, but forcing people to do that is not the teachings of Christ. We should encourage and promote charity. Again, I **think you are missing the point of virtue. You accused those of us who disagree as being selfish and not adhering to the church’s teachings, yet the teachings are that of charity and virtue. Please explain how Obamacare fosters virtues.

Thinking through the lens of the Common Good is about thinking less about “I” and more about “we” in community with one another. Charity is certainly a virtue, and you are free to do what is right, but social justice is neither of those things. Social justice is about changing the structures of society that keep certain classes of people at a chronic disadvantage.

As for the role of government in promoting the Common Good, Catholic Social Teaching recognizes the role of the state in setting and maintaining a basic standard of living for all people, and health care is considered to be a basic human need:
“Society has a moral obligation, including governmental action where necessary, to assure opportunity, meet basic human needs, and pursue justice in economic life (no. 8)” - A Catholic Framework for Economic Life

If you still don’t get it, I recommend that you click on this link:
usccb.org/about/domestic-social-development/resources/upload/poverty-common-good-CST.pdf

 

[SaintAugustine]

Thinking through the lens of the Common Good is about thinking less about “I” and more about “we” in community with one another. Charity is certainly a virtue, and you are free to do what is right, but social justice is neither of those things. Social justice is about changing the structures of society that keep certain classes of people at a chronic disadvantage.

As for the role of government in promoting the Common Good, Catholic Social Teaching recognizes the role of the state in setting and maintaining a basic standard of living for all people, and health care is considered to be a basic human need:
“Society has a moral obligation, including governmental action where necessary, to assure opportunity, meet basic human needs, and pursue justice in economic life (no. 8)” - A Catholic Framework for Economic Life

If you still don’t get it, I recommend that you click on this link:
usccb.org/about/domestic-social-development/resources/upload/poverty-common-good-CST.pdf

You, apparently, still don’t get what the Church teaches about the role of government. I recommend you read the…

Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church
To fulfil this task, the State must adopt suitable legislation but at the same time it must direct economic and social policies in such a way that it does not become abusively involved in the various market activities, the carrying out of which is and must remain free of authoritarian — or worse, totalitarian — superstructures and constraints.
…
354. The State can encourage citizens and businesses to promote the common good by enacting an economic policy that fosters the participation of all citizens in the activities of production. Respect of the principle of subsidiarity must prompt public authorities to seek conditions that encourage the development of individual capacities of initiative, autonomy and personal responsibility in citizens, avoiding any interference which would unduly condition business forces.
…
In any case, public intervention must be carried out with equity, rationality and effectiveness, and without replacing the action of individuals, which would be contrary to their right to the free exercise of economic initiative.** In such cases, the State becomes detrimental to society: a direct intervention that is too extensive ends up depriving citizens of responsibility and creates excessive growth in public agencies guided more by bureaucratic logic than by the goal of satisfying the needs of the person.**

 

[ishii]

Thinking through the lens of the Common Good is about thinking less about “I” and more about “we” in community with one another. Charity is certainly a virtue, and you are free to do what is right, but social justice is neither of those things. Social justice is about changing the structures of society that keep certain classes of people at a chronic disadvantage.

As for the role of government in promoting the Common Good, Catholic Social Teaching recognizes the role of the state in setting and maintaining a basic standard of living for all people, and health care is considered to be a basic human need:
“Society has a moral obligation, including governmental action where necessary, to assure opportunity, meet basic human needs, and pursue justice in economic life (no. 8)” - A Catholic Framework for Economic Life

If you still don’t get it, I recommend that you click on this link:
usccb.org/about/domestic-social-development/resources/upload/poverty-common-good-CST.pdf

Government actions “where necessary.” So no, Bellasbane, Obamacare is not the necessary logical conclusion at all of Catholic social teaching. You seem to have forgotten about the principle of subsidiarity - also a Catholic social teaching. If the recent fiasco of Obamacare implementation isn’t a reason to believe in the wisdom of subsidiarity, then I don’t know what is.

And, it was not okay for Obama to lie to get people to agree to Obamacare. Its shameful to continue to defend him in light of this lying.

Ishii

 

[bellasbane]

Bellasbane, a lie is a lie, - yet it sounds like you’re saying “its okay because its only 20% a lie.” Obama flat out promised the American people: “if you like your own insurance, you can keep it.” And this is a huge point because one of the concerns about Obamacare was/is that people would be forced to go on a plan that they didn’t want or like, or forced to give up their plan which they were satisfied with. So we now know that Obama, and Obamacare was fraudulent. And here you are seemingly defending this to the bitter end. Oh well, such is blind partisanship, I guess - which is different from virtue.

Ishii

Pot calling the kettle black much? You are hardly one to talk about partisanship.

Let’s stop pretending that this entire “non-issue” is anything more than just so much hot air and manufactured outrage. The disproportionate response, conflating of issues and out-right fabrications about what the ACA contains would be humorous if it weren’t for the fact that this law is the best hope millions of Americans have of being able to afford comprehensive health insurance.

We have seen this act played too many times on the right. It is getting predictable.

 

[SaintAugustine]

Pot calling the kettle black much? You are hardly one to talk about partisanship.

Let’s stop pretending that this entire “non-issue” is anything more than just so much hot air and manufactured outrage. The disproportionate response, conflating of issues and out-right fabrications about what the ACA contains would be humorous if it weren’t for the fact that this law is the best hope millions of Americans have of being able to afford comprehensive health insurance.

We have seen this act played too many times on the right. It is getting predictable.

Yep. The Obamacare utter failure is all an “act played by the right.” That’s why even the liberal media and Jon Stewart are lampooning it.

You are the most die hard supporter of Obamacare I have heard to date.

 

[Darryl1958]

If you like your plan you can keep it*

*except for the 15 million of you whose plan suck.

That wasn’t in the fine print.

 

[bellasbane]

Government actions “where necessary.” So no, Bellasbane, Obamacare is not the necessary logical conclusion at all of Catholic social teaching. You seem to have forgotten about the principle of subsidiarity - also a Catholic social teaching. If the recent fiasco of Obamacare implementation isn’t a reason to believe in the wisdom of subsidiarity, then I don’t know what is.

And, it was not okay for Obama to lie to get people to agree to Obamacare. Its shameful to continue to defend him in light of this lying.

Ishii

No, it would be the state Republicans who forgot about subsidiarity when they refused to set up their own health care exchanges. They are the ones who abdicated their role in the process - forcing the federal government to do what the ACA said the states could do better. With the exception of Massachusetts, the states also failed to adequately meet the human needs of their residents and advance the common good. In that case, it was the proper role of a larger institution to take up the responsibility:

“The principle of subsidiarity reminds us that larger institutions in society should not overwhelm or interfere with smaller or local institutions, yet larger institutions have essential responsibilities when the more local institutions cannot adequately protect human dignity, meet human needs, and advance the common good” (no. 48).
usccb.org/about/domestic-social-development/resources/upload/poverty-common-good-CST.pdf

 

[SaintAugustine]

No, it would be the state Republicans who forgot about subsidiarity when they refused to set up their own health care exchanges. They are the ones who abdicated their role in the process - forcing the federal government to do what the ACA said the states could do better. With the exception of Massachusetts, the states also failed to adequately meet the human needs of their residents and advance the common good. In that case, it was the proper role of a larger institution to take up the responsibility:

“The principle of subsidiarity reminds us that larger institutions in society should not overwhelm or interfere with smaller or local institutions, yet larger institutions have essential responsibilities when the more local institutions cannot adequately protect human dignity, meet human needs, and advance the common good” (no. 48).
usccb.org/about/domestic-social-development/resources/upload/poverty-common-good-CST.pdf

You keep quoting USCCB documents. Are the documents you quoted “decrees” according to Canon Law, where 2/3 of the Bishops vote on them and the Holy See gives its approval, or are they merely letters/documents from the various committees? It makes a difference.

I recommend you rely more on the Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church, which better spells out the role of the State, subsidiarity and solidarity, based on magisterial documents.

 

[gamewell45]

And this justifies (under the probably incorrect premise that what you say is correct) lying to the American people because.?

You’ll never know for sure whether or not he was lying unless he publicly admits that he was lying. All we can do is go by what he said he felt was honestly the truth at the time or still is the truth.

 

[Darryl1958]

It is a warped leftist mindset indeed that would quote Church documents to defend the outright lies of Obama.
There is no logic, rhyme or reason to be discussed in such brazen misuse of the faith.

 

[bellasbane]

Yep. The Obamacare utter failure is all an “act played by the right.” That’s why even the liberal media and Jon Stewart are lampooning it.

You are the most die hard supporter of Obamacare I have heard to date.

I would prefer a public option, but thanks to Republicans, the Democrats nixed that idea without even considering it. Its too bad the Dems didn’t know back then that conservatives would accuse them of refusing to compromise anyway.

I believe healthcare is a human right and for the moment Obamacare is the only game in town - so unless the GOP has something better to offer…

As for Jon Stewart - send me the link, I’d love to watch him. He’s funny!

 

[ishii]

It is a warped leftist mindset indeed that would quote Church documents to defend the outright lies of Obama.
There is no logic, rhyme or reason to be discussed in such brazen misuse of the faith.

The devil quoted scripture.

Ishii

 

[bellasbane]

Yep. The Obamacare utter failure is all an “act played by the right.” That’s why even the liberal media and Jon Stewart are lampooning it.

You are the most die hard supporter of Obamacare I have heard to date.

I would prefer a public option, but thanks to Republicans, the Democrats nixed that idea without even considering it. Its too bad they didn’t realize back then that conservatives would accuse them of refusing to compromise anyway.

I believe healthcare is a human right and for the moment Obamacare is the only game in town - so unless the GOP has something better to offer…

As for Jon Stewart - send me the link, I’d love to watch him. He’s funny!

 

[gamewell45]

I would think that being able to get insurance that will meet your needs is more important than getting insurance that meets a federal standard (which includes abortion coverage, birth control, etc.).

I’m unaffected by the ACA since my plan meets or exceeds federal standards and my plan includes abortion and birth control, neither of which will ever need; it comes with the insurance package. I highly doubt my employer will modify the plan for one person even tho’ I don’t need it. Honestly i don’t even know if it adds to the cost of the policy.

 

[ishii]

I would prefer a public option, but thanks to Republicans, the Democrats nixed that idea without even considering it. Its too bad they didn’t realize back then that conservatives would accuse them of refusing to compromise anyway.

I believe healthcare is a human right and for the moment Obamacare is the only game in town - so unless the GOP has something better to offer…

As for Jon Stewart - send me the link, I’d love to watch him. He’s funny!

Why did the public option have to be federally based? Why did we need Obamacare? Wouldn’t it be better to have states have the programs that fit their own needs? Without federal involvement? Isn’t that what subsidiarity would call for?

Why are you avoiding the point about Obama flat out lying to get people to agree to Obamacare?

Ishii

 

[gamewell45]

Also to stay out of bankruptcy court.

We have some people in this country that feel they will never become ill and thus need no medical insurance. Then when they do get sick, they end up in the ER and/or hospital and the taxpayers end up footing the bill.

 

[SaintAugustine]

We have some people in this country that feel they will never become ill and thus need no medical insurance. Then when they do get sick, they end up in the ER and/or hospital and the taxpayers end up footing the bill.

Obamacare won’t prevent that. In fact, it will exacerbate it.

 

[Jeanne_S]

If you like your plan you can keep it*

*except for the 15 million of you whose plan suck.

That wasn’t in the fine print.

This figure will go up to 95million,once the one year exemption for employer based coverage expires!

 

[HoneyBea]

Wow I left to go work out and I came back to read a bunch of leftist talking points per verbatim. I’m staying with the Lords truth and his teachings and not that of society’s twisted truths. Satan did indeed quote scripture, he continues today to manipulate Gods words and use them to confuse the vurnables. This is very sneaky and very dangerous. Please be careful. Bella, please pray that you are hearing God and not something else. God Bless.

 

[HoneyBea]

We have some people in this country that feel they will never become ill and thus need no medical insurance. Then when they do get sick, they end up in the ER and/or hospital and the taxpayers end up footing the bill.

Is this the same reasoning and argument one uses when voting for Politicians who support abortion?