Obama Admin knew millions could not keep their health ins.

[ishii]

ummm…politicians lie?

Don’t be pointing out reality - folks here want to be outraged!

By saying this you’re trying to deflect attention away from Obama’s own lies to help pass Obamacare. Your defense amounts to “everyone else does it”.

Ishii

 

[qui_est_ce]

If Obamacare was worth anything, they would at least offer catastrophic coverage (they only offer that for people under 30 in my state) along with expansions of HSA to actually give people choice. As an aside, it is ironic that the same people claim** choice is a good thing when it comes to murdering **your baby in the womb.

Good observation.

 

[Darryl1958]

By saying this you’re trying to deflect attention away from Obama’s own lies to help pass Obamacare. Your defense amounts to “everyone else does it”.

Ishii

Those that are happy that lies enabled Obamacare will not be above lying about what Church documents say either, in order to justify those lies.

It is not a matter that American liberal elites were duped by the lies. It is a matter of them being complicit in the lies.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Myself, the mandatory aspect, its over the top. I can’t get past that. What else will be mandatory?

 

[bellasbane]

By saying this you’re trying to deflect attention away from Obama’s own lies to help pass Obamacare. Your defense amounts to “everyone else does it”.

Ishii

Some lies are worse than others. For example, I don’t think what Obama did rises to the level of lying about WMDs in Iraq. That’s why I think the outrage is just media sensationalism and a lot of hot air.

 

[bellasbane]

Those that are happy that lies enabled Obamacare will not be above lying about what Church documents say either, in order to justify those lies.

It is not a matter that American liberal elites were duped by the lies. It is a matter of them being complicit in the lies.

Are you talking about me, because everything I posted was directly quoted from an authoritative Church document.

 

[HoneyBea]

Actually there were biological weapons found during the Iraq War, but they were old caches and not in any large amounts, presumably moved into oh I dunno Syria maybe? Oh wait no never mind the most transparent administration ever that is Obamas already cleared up that bogus theory and reminded us for the millionth time that Bush lied and in all reality it’s probably Bush’s fault that Syria even has chemical weapons.

 

[HoneyBea]

Some lies are worse than others. For example, I don’t think what Obama did rises to the level of lying about WMDs in Iraq. That’s why I think the outrage is just media sensationalism and a lot of hot air.

Actually there were biological weapons found during the Iraq War, but they were old caches and not in any large amounts, presumably moved into oh I dunno Syria maybe? Oh wait no never mind the most transparent administration ever that is Obamas already cleared up that bogus theory and reminded us for the millionth time that Bush lied and in all reality it’s probably Bush’s fault that Syria even has chemical weapons.

Outrage is merely media sensation? Is that how you keep in the state of cognitive dissonance? I was wondering how you do it. Thanks for the insight.

 

[Darryl1958]

Are you talking about me, because everything I posted was directly quoted from an authoritative Church document.

Using Church documents in justification of Obama’s lies is in itself a form of gross dishonesty.

 

[Darryl1958]

What did Bush “lie” about?

As the Iraq war dragged on and got increasingly unpopular, Democrats who voted for it needed justification for being for it before they were against it.

To do this, they constructed the pretense that they were dupes of Bush’s lies. The “Bush lied, people died” electioneering slogan was thereby invented.

It in itself was the lie.

 

[HoneyBea]

As the Iraq war dragged on and got increasingly unpopular, Democrats who voted for it needed justification for being for it before they were against it.

To do this, they constructed the pretense that they were dupes of Bush’s lies. The “Bush lied, people died” electioneering slogan was thereby invented.

It in itself was the lie.

The best deception is the one that is done in a way that is too obvious to believe its a lie for that would make the believer a fool. Cognitive dissonance much?

Democrats are morally bankrupt. There is no lie they won’t create.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Are Democrats starting to feel the backlash from the Affordable Care Act?

Mother Jones Shocker: ‘New Poll Shows Democratic Incumbents in Big Trouble’

 

[estesbob]

Are you talking about me, because everything I posted was directly quoted from an authoritative Church document.

Did you post the part about the Church opposing Obamacare?

 

[MJE]

Myself, the mandatory aspect, its over the top. I can’t get past that. What else will be mandatory?

Indeed!

Mandatory Intrinsic evils and promote the common good?

 

[bellasbane]

Did you post the part about the Church opposing Obamacare?

With the passage of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA), our country took an important step toward ensuring access to health coverage for all Americans. However, as the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops has explained in past letters and analyses, the final Act approved last March was seriously flawed in its treatment of abortion, conscience rights, and fairness to immigrants (see www.usccb.org/healthcare). Efforts to ensure that our health care system truly serves the life, health and conscience of all will be a legislative goal of the Catholic bishops in the months to come.

usccb.org/issues-and-action/religious-liberty/conscience-protection/upload/protect-life-act-letter-2011-11.pdf

(I’d like to see those issues resolved as well.) – Now more from the USCCB:

USCCB POSITION
For decades, the bishops have consistently insisted that access to decent health care is a basic safeguard of human life and an affirmation of human dignity from conception until natural death. They have advocated that health care reform legislation should 1) ensure access to quality, affordable, life giving health care for all; 2) retain longstanding requirements that federal funds not be used for elective abortions or plans that include them, and effectively protects conscience rights; and 3) protect the access to health care that immigrants currently have and remove current barriers to access.

In November 2009, the USCCB wrote in a letter to the U.S. Senate, “The bishops support the expansion of Medicaid eligibility for people living at 133 percent or lower of the federal poverty level. The bill does not burden states with excessive Medicaid matching rates. The affordability credits will help lower-income families purchase insurance coverage through the Health Insurance Exchange.”

Although not included in the Affordable Care Act, the USCCB continues to support policy repealing the five-year ban on legal immigrants accessing federal health benefit programs, such as Medicaid and the Children’s Health Insurance Program. Legal immigrants, who work and pay taxes, should have access to such programs if needed. Removing the ban would help ensure that legal immigrants have access to health care. (Note: States currently have the option to cover some immigrant pregnant women and children in Medicaid and the Children’s Health Insurance Program.)

origin.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/health-care/upload/2013-02-Health-Care-backgrounder.pdf

 

[bellasbane]

Using Church documents in justification of Obama’s lies is in itself a form of gross dishonesty.

I think it is dishonest to ignore the fact that cheap insurance undermines the Common Good by failing to provide adequate levels of support or by excluding people who need it the most.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Myself, the mandatory aspect, its over the top. I can’t get past that. What else will be mandatory?

THIS! You hit the nail on the head.

Obama keeps talking about buying insurance on the free market, but how free is it when there are arbitrary mandates made by unelected officials?

 

[Darryl1958]

I think it is dishonest to ignore the fact that cheap insurance undermines the Common Good by failing to provide adequate levels of support or by excluding people who need it the most.

If that case could only be made by deliberately lying and conning the American people, that is according to the morals of Democrats and liberals, and is not according to the documents of the Catholic Church.

There is no argument that the American people were duped. Unlike leftists and liberal Catholics, I don’t see such dishonesty in the service of what partisans advocate as Common Good as moral.
Moreover it subverts the democratic process.

That is our main point of disagreement here.

 

[Havard]

I think it is dishonest to ignore the fact that cheap insurance undermines the Common Good by failing to provide adequate levels of support or by excluding people who need it the most.

If mini-med plans are so wrong, why didn’t the President and other ACA supporters proudly proclaim their demise as one of the benefits of the ACA?

When instead, the President continued to drive home the talking point that people could keep their plans.

Is it okay to bait and switch the American people with legislation, so long as it’s in furtherance of the Common Good?

 

[estesbob]

With the passage of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA), our country took an important step toward ensuring access to health coverage for all Americans. However, as the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops has explained in past letters and analyses, the final Act approved last March was seriously flawed in its treatment of abortion, conscience rights, and fairness to immigrants (see www.usccb.org/healthcare). Efforts to ensure that our health care system truly serves the life, health and conscience of all will be a legislative goal of the Catholic bishops in the months to come.

usccb.org/issues-and-action/religious-liberty/conscience-protection/upload/protect-life-act-letter-2011-11.pdf

(I’d like to see those issues resolved as well.) – Now more from the USCCB:

USCCB POSITION
For decades, the bishops have consistently insisted that access to decent health care is a basic safeguard of human life and an affirmation of human dignity from conception until natural death. They have advocated that health care reform legislation should 1) ensure access to quality, affordable, life giving health care for all; 2) retain longstanding requirements that federal funds not be used for elective abortions or plans that include them, and effectively protects conscience rights; and 3) protect the access to health care that immigrants currently have and remove current barriers to access.

In November 2009, the USCCB wrote in a letter to the U.S. Senate, “The bishops support the expansion of Medicaid eligibility for people living at 133 percent or lower of the federal poverty level. The bill does not burden states with excessive Medicaid matching rates. The affordability credits will help lower-income families purchase insurance coverage through the Health Insurance Exchange.”

Although not included in the Affordable Care Act, the USCCB continues to support policy repealing the five-year ban on legal immigrants accessing federal health benefit programs, such as Medicaid and the Children’s Health Insurance Program. Legal immigrants, who work and pay taxes, should have access to such programs if needed. Removing the ban would help ensure that legal immigrants have access to health care. (Note: States currently have the option to cover some immigrant pregnant women and children in Medicaid and the Children’s Health Insurance Program.)

origin.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/health-care/upload/2013-02-Health-Care-backgrounder.pdf

So it is hard to argue that Obama care is supported by Church teaching when the Church rejected it. And of course, the Church was unaware, as were the rest of us, that whole program was built on a foundation of lies