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ishii
Guest
Why do you put the lie in quotation marks? By doing so you seem to be downplaying the seriousness of Obama lying to get a bill passed.
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ishii
Guest
Have they been addressed at all? Have you heard of Massachusetts? I believe that state passed reform that supposedly ensured that people of lesser means would have healthcare. Or do you think “sufficiently addressed” only means doing something at the federal level, with a huge bureaucracy?
Ishii
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Dawnia
Guest
Exactly. If it’s so dang good that everyone would give their right arm for it, then why hide the truth from people?
He lied because he knew what was going to happen, but expected that we’d all be falling over ourselves to thank him for the all the wonderful benefits of Obamacare. It would be all rainbows and sunshine when it was implemented that he wouldn’t have to worry about any backlash over people losing their current policies. It didn’t quite work out that way though.
I expect that most people are less upset over losing their current policy as they are with the double and triple premium increases for the “rainbow and sunshine” Obamacare policies.
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DoGodsBidding
Guest
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ishii
Guest
Exactly. It helped him pass obamacare, then helped him get re-elected. His success is built on lies.
Ishii
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Jeanne_S
Guest
The fact that O,exempted not only himself but all of congress and senate from the ACA,speaks volumns
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Darryl1958
Guest
Doing that, and being furious that you were lied to are two entirely different things.
If we can’t even agree to the fact that the sky is blue, but one side only concedes to the argument that is blue for the sake of arguing further, really, that is not even a concession.
Are you really of the belief that Americans were not lied to about this?!!!
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GaryTaylor
Guest
Darryl didn’t the President apologize thus in so many words admit to being wrong?
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ProVobis
Guest
FYI, I just did an inquiry of the new plans for Illinoisians.
For a person older than 50
Blue Choice Bronze PPO $211.96
Blue Precision Bronze HMO $228.52
Blue Choice Silver HMO $292.72
Blue Precision Silver PPO HMO $295.65
Blue Security Precision Catastrophic $305.97
Blue Choice Silver $308.61
Land of Lincoln National Freedom PPO Plan Bronze $323.25
Blue Cross Blue Shield Basic 5, a Multi-State Plan Bronze $328.26
Aetna Basic Bronze $329.00
Blue Precision Gold HMO $343.40
…
the highest listed is Aetna Premier 2000 PD $636.00
It mentions some can vary based on cigarette smoking, also mentions a single making less than $46,000 or a family of four making less than $94,000 is qualified for assistance.
I hope these aren’t lies.
For a person older than 50
Blue Choice Bronze PPO $211.96
Blue Precision Bronze HMO $228.52
Blue Choice Silver HMO $292.72
Blue Precision Silver PPO HMO $295.65
Blue Security Precision Catastrophic $305.97
Blue Choice Silver $308.61
Land of Lincoln National Freedom PPO Plan Bronze $323.25
Blue Cross Blue Shield Basic 5, a Multi-State Plan Bronze $328.26
Aetna Basic Bronze $329.00
Blue Precision Gold HMO $343.40
…
the highest listed is Aetna Premier 2000 PD $636.00
It mentions some can vary based on cigarette smoking, also mentions a single making less than $46,000 or a family of four making less than $94,000 is qualified for assistance.
I hope these aren’t lies.
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Darryl1958
Guest
No, he didn’t.
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estesbob
Guest
What are the deductible s? What is the % covered.Did you get these from the exchange? Was their a subsidy involved?
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ProVobis
Guest
I believe the deductibles vary according to whether it’s bronze, gold, or silver. Also % covered. These are quotes from healthcare.gov. I presume they’re on the state’s exchange since the subsidies apply. AFAIK, anything grandfathered wouldn’t qualify for the subsidy.
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ProVobis
Guest
I think it’s fair to mention too that ACA provides plenty of preventative services which are listed on the website. I don’t want to lie but I believe they are free.
healthcare.gov/what-are-my-preventive-care-benefits/#part=1
Note that the only mention of abortion is in the exclusion of it on page 2
8.Contraception: Food and Drug Administration-approved contraceptive methods, sterilization procedures, and patient education and counseling, as prescribed by a health care provider for women with reproductive capacity (not including abortifacient drugs). This does not apply to health plans sponsored by certain exempt “religious employers.”
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Dawnia
Guest
The deductibles don’t seem to be listed (or rather I didn’t see them anywhere)
Insurance vs insured costs are given as averages, so the insurance company would pay an avg of 60% of costs for Bronze plans.
Bronze - 60/40
Silver - 70/30
Gold - 80/20
Platinum - 90/10
Any policy not purchase through the exchange would not qualify for the subsidy.
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seekerz
Guest
I believe it was only a lie if it was premeditated, otherwise it was making un-achievable promises based on misguided information. Since I can’t read the president’s mind…
Besides, what good would it do me to get furious over this? It’s already done. I’d much rather see energy focused on achieving effective health reform and from my viewpoint that means people giving constructive feedback (positive or negative) about specific problems being encountered.
And I do believe that discussions like this can be useful in giving that kind of feedback. What I don’t believe is that it is wrong/bad/immoral for government to be involved in health care - whatever the level: state or federal. I respect that others feel differently. For myself I don’t care who does what as long as problems get addressed in a moral and effective manner.
And for the record, no, I don’t believe that waste or lack of accountability are unique to government enterprises or that effective solutions are the preserve of private enterprise. Maybe I’ve just lived in too many places where governments (with or without the help of outside governments and organizations) have been instrumental in eradicating diseases, decreasing mortality and extending healthy lifespans.
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seekerz
Guest
I was able to see the deductibles for Texas, and it disturbs me that they are so high. Barring serious illness, I don’t see my family meeting those deductibles, so coinsurance matters a great deal. The coinsurance percentages also don’t tell as much as might be imagined either. To make accurate comparisons, one would need at least some concrete examples for one or two common services. In other words, 70/30 of X does not really say much unless one knows where X lies now, as compared to what X used to be.
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Darryl1958
Guest
No need to make it personal about just about Barrack Hussein Obama then
The OP is about what the Obama administration KNEW back in 2010.
If your argument now is that BHO is just a mindless know-nuthink hand puppet of that administration, I’ll accept that as a legitimate answer.
For sure, maybe he really was clueless all along, even if his administration wasn’t.
I personally would want to give him credit for having a mind of his own, but it is entirely possible that he is a lackey, a mere pretty face to be paraded out to the masses to sell something that he does not have a clue about.
Yes 15 million people have been sold out. It has already been done, for sure.
And, I don’t know what good emotions do, actually. I tend to be pretty cold blooded myself. I remember answering once on another forum that God is a very emotional guy, according to the OT, and people thought I was either joking or being sacri-religious.
I was being neither actually. Even if am not sure what good natural emotions do for people who have been betrayed, even if I often don’t feel them myself, I only know that it is a very human thing, (and even a godly thing if the Bible is to be believed), to have some kind of emotional response to being betrayed.
It makes more sense to me to be debating the reform before it is passed, rather than passing it to see what is in it.
It has already been past now. All energy is now focussed on picking up the pieces of those cancelled, policies, and increased premiums, and large deductibles.
Americans are in a position now of being sold a Jaguar and having it perform like a Russian Lada. Wonks might find it interesting to discuss how the problem lies in the fuel-air/fuel ratio in piston 12, but regular people who just want to carry on down the road as before. and are only are aware that the car that they have been sold sucks big time.
Do snake oil salesman sell something better to people that go back to them the second time?
Good luck with that though.
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ProVobis
Guest
Have you checked the three pages of preventative measures that will be now covered for free? Hopefully you or your kids will never need a bypass or cancer treatments which will eat into your out-of-pocket expenses.
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St_Francis
Guest
There are two problems with this.
- Obama made certain promises very clearly and emphatically about a situation *over which he had control *and then did not keep them.
Obama told us clearly we could keep… if we liked… then either crafted or allowed to be crafted in his name a bill and/or regulations *which went directly against what he had promised. *
Moreover, Obama made these promises *in order to get the authority to do what he did. *So he said, give me money and I’ll help poor people with it, and then took the money and used it to impose a huge tax on us instead. Believe me, someone who was barely above water before this came out will shortly find themselves underwater, and paying a hefty percentage of their income to get there.
The point is not to get furious and just sit there. The point is to be outraged by the manipulation of the American people *and learn something. *“Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it,” after all.
We have been doing that in several areas for decades, mostly clearly in education. The progressives come in with their ideas, the government mandates them, and we end up in worse shape than we were in before. This downward spiral has been going on for decades. Because we have not learned from the lies which people continue to call failed promises, our children and grandchildren continue to suffer through the reduced levels of what we continue to call education.
And this is the crux of the matter: you applaud those who wring their hands and say they are concerned and want to fix the problem. What you fail to see is that all their fixes at best merely perpetuate the problem in *every area in which they meddle. *
What was this whole boondoggle supposed to accomplish? There were 30 million people (47 if you counted those here illegally)* without health insurance. Health Affairs predicts 26-27 million will remain uninsured
Here is a Washington Post article which goes into a fair amount of detail and in which it is also explained that *those here illegally make up only 1/5 of the total without insurance, not 1/3 as we were told before ACA. (Very confusing stuff, that.)
So we’ve spent millions ($174M, according to Sebelius), and committed ourselves to paying an actually unknown amount but estimated at $1.3T to $1.8T over the next ten years to accomplish what, exactly?
The difference is that in private enterprise, feedback occurs swiftly. In government, it may never occur at all. Barney Frank continued in office until he retired at the age of 72(?), despite his blocking improvement to Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac which led to the 2008 collapse.
But where do the *improvements *come from? The vast majority come from here, where there is enough money in health care to fund research. So while these other nations *provide *more, their costs are reduced because they pay for only a small amount for the research which goes into the improvements.
And it’s not as if the US government has done *nothing *for those in need: Medicare and Medicaid cover quite a few people!
Not saying the US is doing really well or that there were no problems before. There absolutely were problems before. My main point is that the ACA did not address the *causes *of the problems, and this did nothing to solve the problem.
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St_Francis
Guest
Obama’s apology: “I am sorry that they are finding themselves in this situation based on assurances they got from me.”
This “apology” doesn’t make any sense–it is completely devoid of meaning.
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