My mistake, it says “the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil” See: bible.cc/1_timothy/6-10.htmQuote:
Originally Posted by lynnvinc
There are also many high paying jobs that are immoral. I would not suggest promoting such jobs simply bec we need the money.
Money is truly the root of all evil, as the Bible says.
Where does it say that?
Ever see what the production of lithium ion batteries does to the earth?My mistake, it says “the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil” See: bible.cc/1_timothy/6-10.htm
I would also suggest that our addiction to oil os also a root of all kinds of evil. For one thing it lead many to lie and distort the truth, as well as downplay its serious problems.
And who are the advertisers for USA Today? And who funds (buys) the politicians that favor the pipeline. And even the colleges – many are supported by oil money, like ours, where some faculty were afraid of showing WHO KILLED THE ELECTRIC CAR? on campus, bec it might affect our funding.To quote USA Today, “The biggest loser in this game of political football is the national interest.”
There is simply no good reason not to go forward with the pipeline.
I really hope that you don’t actually believe that you’re only using “wind-generating electricity”.We’re on GreenMountain 100% wind generated electricity
That would be a “duh”.To quote USA Today, “The biggest loser in this game of political football is the national interest.”
There is simply no good reason not to go forward with the pipeline.
No, please let me know. I’ve just been assuming it would be better than oil and coal, but I imagine it also has some serious downsides. Nearly everything does.Ever see what the production of lithium ion batteries does to the earth?
Yes, I’m aware of how GreenMountain wind power works, but I’ve heard it is more windy at night. And I am satisfied that I am paying for 100% wind power (which is put into the common grid) – because of people signing up for it, GreenMountain is erecting more and more wind farms, one in the next county over from us where it is VERY windy night and day.I really hope that you don’t actually believe that you’re only using “wind-generating electricity”.
Here’s how “green power” actually works. For every kWh you use, the utility company will provide an equivalent amount of “green” (in this case wind) power to the grid. It doesn’t even have to be at the same time, and if you’re charging your car at night it’s likely that it’s not (wind power by and large generates very little at night because it’s not that windy at night).
There’s no such thing as receiving wind power unless you have a turbine on your property. The electricity grid doesn’t discriminate between “green” or other sources when delivering power to your house. Like I said, what you’re probably getting is coal or gas power. And then you pay a bit more largely so your conscience can feel better (from an economic perspective, what you are essentially doing is helping promoting wind power by subsidizing it through higher power rates).
That would be a “duh”.
There are undoubtedly places in the Great Plains or on the coasts where wind is strong enough and constant enough to provide a fairly reliable source of electricity. I once saw an enormous wind farm in western Kansas; acres and acres and acres of windmills and I was told by locals that it did, indeed, light up one town. Not sure how large the town is, but in western Ks, there aren’t any really big ones. The windmills were all up on a natural prairie uplift, and stretched for miles. A marvelous sight, they were.Yes, I’m aware of how GreenMountain wind power works, but I’ve heard it is more windy at night. And I am satisfied that I am paying for 100% wind power (which is put into the common grid) – because of people signing up for it, GreenMountain is erecting more and more wind farms, one in the next county over from us where it is VERY windy night and day.
I realize that if everyone were to go on GreenMountain, then they wouldn’t be able to supply enough wind power for all. Just like if people were to seriously start taking the used library paper to reuse on the clean side (or all library users were to print double-sided, an option they added a few years back), then there wouldn’t be enough for all the work I do; I print out nearly everything on the back side of that very good quality library paper…the sheets that weren’t printed double-sided.
But I’d really love it if everyone would sign up for alt energy, and the alt energy industry had to gear up tremendously to strive and meet at least half our needs. That would be wonderful.
BTW, oil and coal get huge subsidies and tax-breaks AND their true costs (including harm to people’s health and the environment) are not internalized in their prices – so we’re killing and harming people without even compensating them.
I’m thinking our next projects will be to start installing solar panels and small wind generators (if our city allows them). One at a time. We’re not rich, and we’ve just depleted our bank account substantially to buy the Volt.
We are NOT addicted to oil … [yeah, yeah, yeah, I know George W. Bush said that, but we’re not.]My mistake, it says “the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil” See: bible.cc/1_timothy/6-10.htm
I would also suggest that our addiction to oil os also a root of all kinds of evil. For one thing it lead many to lie and distort the truth, as well as downplay its serious problems.
The other day I drove by a wind farm. One third were spinning madly, one-third were barely turning at all, and one-third seem to have lost their blades.There are undoubtedly places in the Great Plains or on the coasts where wind is strong enough and constant enough to provide a fairly reliable source of electricity. I once saw an enormous wind farm in western Kansas; acres and acres and acres of windmills and I was told by locals that it did, indeed, light up one town. Not sure how large the town is, but in western Ks, there aren’t any really big ones. The windmills were all up on a natural prairie uplift, and stretched for miles. A marvelous sight, they were.
But in some places, like where I live, there isn’t a whole lot of wind at any time of year except for the occasional tornado in the spring.
When I was a kid, there was an old, unused windmill on nearly every farm. As soon as the farmers got electricity they abandoned them because the wind is not strong enough or constant enough to provide more than just a little bit of water on a very small farm. I do understand that in some places on the Southern Plains they still water stock with windmills in remote areas where it would be too expensive to bring electricity. I guess they get enough wind there.
Windmills might provide an answer in some places, and for some people. But I doubt very much that it can provide more than a tiny bit of this country’s needs.
For a windmill to kill a bird or a bat is ok, because in that case it is politically correct.Another issue with wind farms is bird kill. I read that those things kill huge numbers of birds, especially those active at night. Nocturnal predators learn where to find freshly fallen birds and quickly feed on the wounded animals.
I am still waiting for an answer to this.Have the courage of conviction to speak plainly.
And I will ask again:
Is that how you feel about those that freely choose to drive their minivan or SUV?
‘harming and killing people’?
Whoa, horse! So how did people live before the internal combusion engine?We are NOT addicted to oil … [yeah, yeah, yeah, I know George W. Bush said that, but we’re not.]
We are no more addicted to oil than we are addicted to air or water or food or heat in the winter.
Humans NEED cheap, abundant energy.
And boutique electricity from windmills and solar is not cheap and it is not abundant.
You really must stop trying to talk logic to people who want to feeeeeel morally suuuuuuuupeeeeerior to everyone else because they are driving a Prius or Volt or Leaf or whatever is saving the planet today. Fact of the matter is the historical normal population for the earth is about 2 billion of so. Then with the industrial revolution it started to grow, with the internal combustion engine and all the wonders cheap affordable energy brought, it had ballooned to 6 billion. Now take away gas and oil cheap energy, the internal combustion engine, artificial fertilizers and pesticides, drugs and water treatment facilities and sewage treatment facilities how many people will die immediately?Whether the Keystone pipeline is completed or not (and great parts of it are already completed), the oil will still be produced and used.
Canceling the U.S. pipeline doesn’t mean the Canadian oil won’t be produced and shipped. It will be. The only question is to where and at what cost. The best option is to send it south to the U.S. The best option is to use the pipeline. Worse options are to use rail tank cars at a greater expense or tanker trucks also at greater expense. Or to ship it west to Canadian ports for transshipment to China.
Arguing about oil is meaningless. The oil will be produced and used.
But canceling the pipeline is a disservice to the U.S. economy and to U.S. oil independence. I’ve seen hardly any editorials, from center, left, or right, that do not view the postponement of the pipeline approval as a serious mistake.
It’s economics, not theology. But if it were about theology, I’d say God gave us natural resources, including oil. He doesn’t expect us to let them go to waste.
It’s fine for somebody to ride his bike to work if he’s close enough to do it, if the traffic isn’t deadly and if the weather is reasonably decent. But it really has to be recognized that agriculture uses up a great deal of petroleum energy and petroleum products. Do we really want to return to the days when the majority of the populace consisted in subsistence farmers out of sheer necessity? Are people really ready to go out to the countryside and scratch a bare living out of a small patch of soil? Same thing with industry. How does anybody think those bicycles are made? They’re made by smelting and forming metal and processing petroleum products. Takes a lot of energy to do all that.Whoa, horse! So how did people live before the internal combusion engine? They rode on coal-fired trains or rode or drove horses. They warmed their houses with wood or coal. All the buildings and trees turned black with the soot from the trains and the furnaces. The cities were absolute sewers because of the horses. The horses consumed fully 1/3 of the agricultural output of the nation.
Actually wind and solar and hydro-electric, etc are much cheaper than oil and coal – if the subsidies & tax breaks to these are removed and the externalities of harms are internalized. Then why are wind, solar and hydro-electric subsidized much more than are oil, gas and coal? Actually, oil, gas and coal are not subsidized at all. Yes, they do have deductions for depletion of their reserves.
We don’t have to go back to the one-horsepower days. We can instead reduce our consumption of oil and coal through energy/resource efficiency/conservation. As Catholics that would be the right thing to do, even if there were no problems associated with these – the simple, humble and holy life. Maybe think small – the Little Way of Environmental Healing. Many many small deeds do add up, and open us up to bigger deeds.
Actually that windfarm (near Russell?) only produces electricity about 30% of the time. It acts as an “add on” to the power grid. Whatever electricity a windfarm produces that is “needed” there must be backup power to cover it - in this case coal fired plants in Nebreska. If the wind blows to much or not enough they are shut down. I’ve driven by them for years and have never seen more than half of them running at any one time.There are undoubtedly places in the Great Plains or on the coasts where wind is strong enough and constant enough to provide a fairly reliable source of electricity. I once saw an enormous wind farm in western Kansas; acres and acres and acres of windmills and I was told by locals that it did, indeed, light up one town. Not sure how large the town is, but in western Ks, there aren’t any really big ones. The windmills were all up on a natural prairie uplift, and stretched for miles. A marvelous sight, they were.
I’m not doubting you. I was astonished at what all it took to light up even one town, and if it only does it 30% of the time, I would say the whole effort is questionable.Actually that windfarm (near Russell?) only produces electricity about 30% of the time. It acts as an “add on” to the power grid. Whatever electricity a windfarm produces that is “needed” there must be backup power to cover it - in this case coal fired plants in Nebreska. If the wind blows to much or not enough they are shut down. I’ve driven by them for years and have never seen more than half of them running at any one time.