Obama and Romney Hit Final Stretch Part 3

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Al_Moritz said:
Precisely. From past evidence I have no reason to trust not just Romney, but in general the Republican Party on much, and certainly not on the issue of abortion, at least not on the federal level.

Catholics are not obliged to leave their brains at the church door and at the voting booth.

Just because someone says some magic words, we are supposed to believe them? We are followers of Jesus Christ, not of The Pied Piper.
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I would follow the whole voice of the Church, either unified ,or the one voice that sits on the seat of Peter, but we cannot pick and choose only those that can be construed as agreeing with our view. It gives appearance of making Church fit our view as opposed to fitting our view to Church.
 
Luigi_Daniele said:
Obama has PROVEN BY HIS ACTIONS that he is anti-life.

As to Romney, can you read minds?
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The Romney that stated he was more pro choice than Ted Kennedy, or the Romney now; the one using misleading ads and denying those who can speak correctly on the matter?
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
The Romney that stated he was more pro choice than Ted Kennedy, or the Romney now; the one using misleading ads and denying those who can speak correctly on the matter?
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I give up. I am actually seriously considering put you on ignore, something I’ve never done on any forum.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
If a candidate’s credibility is sincerely questioned, you have a proportionate reason. It doesn’t have to go any further than that. No where does the Church teach you must believe a candidate. No where does the Church teach you must ‘gamble’ your vote.
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I am a bit confused here, since I agree that you cannot trust most politicians, the only issue is that one issue that Obama seems to have a lot of credibility on is that he thinks women should have the right to have abortions and have someone else pay for them. Do you think he is a liar and is secretly prolife?

On the other hand, nobody says you must vote for Romney.
 
Luigi_Daniele said:
I give up. I am actually seriously considering put you on ignore, something I’ve never done on any forum.
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Why? He makes sense. But sure, since I say that, you can put me on your ignore list too, while you’re at it.
 
Luigi_Daniele said:
I give up. I am actually seriously considering put you on ignore, something I’ve never done on any forum.
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I would sincerely hate to hear it. We could end our discussions with each other now, without an ignore option.
 
stinkcat_14 said:
I am a bit confused here, since I agree that you cannot trust most politicians, the only issue is that one issue that Obama seems to have a lot of credibility on is that he thinks women should have the right to have abortions and have someone else pay for them. Do you think he is a liar and is secretly prolife?

On the other hand, nobody says you must vote for Romney.
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Many times I have stated I would not vote, or would write in a candidate of my choice. Almost as many times I was challenged with Church teachings and being told Catholics only have ONE choice in the upcoming election. It’s that partisan reach, and a misinterpretation of Church teachings that motivated me to speak out on the subject.

I believe in everything the Church teaches, and don’t like being challenged by partisans using scriptures, or Church teachings, in what I consider to be misleading, or misinformed, ways. I want to make that clear, that I don’t know if it’s intentional or mistaken.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Many times I have stated I would not vote, or would write in a candidate of my choice. Almost as many times I was challenged with Church teachings and being told Catholics only have ONE choice in the upcoming election. It’s that partisan reach, and a misinterpretation of Church teachings that motivated me to speak out on the subject.

I believe in everything the Church teaches, and don’t like being challenged by partisans using scriptures, or Church teachings, in what I consider to be misleading, or misinformed, ways. I want to make that clear, that I don’t know if it’s intentional or mistaken.
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Noted, btw, that anyone who disagrees with your interpretation of Church teaching on the matter is a “partisan.” We couldn’t possibly believe in everything the Church teaches and be voting accordingly.

That, is the probable reason people might consider ignoring you…
 
Al_Moritz said:
Why? He makes sense. But sure, since I say that, you can put me on your ignore list too, while you’re at it.
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Al, as one reviews the 2012 USCCB voter’s guide, #34 was the subject of great debate during the last election. The Bishops reviewed the material and debated it again, before re-releasing it with the same exact wording that many Catholics accused others of taking out of context, or using in a fashion as to not vote for a specific candidate. Surely the Bishops discussed this specifically, yet no changes were made. That seems to speak loud and clear that there are no changes required according to what the unified voice teaches.

One Bishop in particular wrote (in response to accusations of a biased teaching, allowing Catholics to vote, as long as the vote was not to support an intrinsic evil):
The Faithful Citizenship presentations are based directly on the statement of the Catholic Bishops of the United States in their most recent version of the Faithful Citizenship document from October 2011. The Bishops’ statement is quoted extensively throughout the course of the presentation, including the portions of the Bishops’ statement that clearly indicate that intrinsic evils, such as abortion, must always be opposed and that a Catholic can never in good conscience vote for a candidate who takes a position in favor of an intrinsic evil if it is the voter’s intent to support that position.
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“There is no evidence that the Faithful Citizenship presentations are biased, but reflect the straightforward teachings of the United States Bishops and the Catholic Church on how an individual’s faith relates to his voting choices. This issue has been grossly distorted by a few individuals who wrongly claim to represent the entire Right to Life movement and whose purpose is not to shed light on authentic Catholic teaching but to remake and narrow the scope of Catholic teaching to fit their own personal agenda.”
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rlg94086 said:
Noted, btw, that anyone who disagrees with your interpretation of Church teaching on the matter is a “partisan.” We couldn’t possibly believe in everything the Church teaches and be voting accordingly.

That, is the probable reason people might consider ignoring you…
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Thank you for pointing out the hypocrisy. 👍
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Many times I have stated I would not vote, or would write in a candidate of my choice. Almost as many times I was challenged with Church teachings and being told Catholics only have ONE choice in the upcoming election. It’s that partisan reach, and a misinterpretation of Church teachings that motivated me to speak out on the subject.

I believe in everything the Church teaches, and don’t like being challenged by partisans using scriptures, or Church teachings, in what I consider to be misleading, or misinformed, ways. I want to make that clear, that I don’t know if it’s intentional or mistaken.
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Then vote third party. Maybe if enough people voted third party, the two major parties would notice and move to a more reasonable position.

No one here is saying to vote for Romney. All they are implying is there are many issues with voting for Obama.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Many times I have stated I would not vote, or would write in a candidate of my choice. Almost as many times I was challenged with Church teachings and being told Catholics only have ONE choice in the upcoming election. It’s that partisan reach, and a misinterpretation of Church teachings that motivated me to speak out on the subject.

I believe in everything the Church teaches, and don’t like being challenged by partisans using scriptures, or Church teachings, in what I consider to be misleading, or misinformed, ways. I want to make that clear, that I don’t know if it’s intentional or mistaken.
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I have said on several occasions that I would most likely vote for a third party candidate, and everyone, every single one has agreed that is perfectly consistent with Church teaching.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Al, as one reviews the 2012 USCCB voter’s guide, #34 was the subject of great debate during the last election. The Bishops reviewed the material and debated it again, before re-releasing it with the same exact wording that many Catholics accused others of taking out of context, or using in a fashion as to not vote for a specific candidate. Surely the Bishops discussed this specifically, yet no changes were made. That seems to speak loud and clear that there are no changes required according to what the unified voice teaches.

One Bishop in particular wrote (in response to accusations of a biased teaching, allowing Catholics to vote, as long as the vote was not to support an intrinsic evil):
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How does this make a different point than I was making?
 
rlg94086 said:
Noted, btw, that anyone who disagrees with your interpretation of Church teaching on the matter is a “partisan.” We couldn’t possibly believe in everything the Church teaches and be voting accordingly.

That, is the probable reason people might consider ignoring you…
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The majority of disagreements are accompanied with accusations of me being wrong, and at times much worse. What we believe and could or could not do does not allow for us to impose our consciences on others. That is something the Church teaches against, specifically forcing others to act according to their conscience.

The explanations of Church teachings by some, through voter’s guides, and other writings, have gone beyond what those documents specifically state; to say that one can, and must, vote for only one candidate. That is not being said, and if it is it lacks the clarity some claim it has.

They certainly have that option, to ignore, and I’d sincerely hate to hear of it, since we can simply agree not to discuss with each other. Ignore or not, we are still brothers and sisters in the body of Christ.
 
stinkcat_14 said:
I have said on several occasions that I would most likely vote for a third party candidate, and everyone, every single one has agreed that is perfectly consistent with Church teaching.
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Let’s see…

Does everyone agree that writing in a third party candidate, or not voting, is acceptable to Church teaching?
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Let’s see…

Does everyone agree that writing in a third party candidate, or not voting, is acceptable to Church teaching?
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I am not sure whether it matters what people think, Church teaching is quite clear, there is nothing sinful in voting for a pro-life candidate.
 
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