Obama and Romney Hit Final Stretch Part 3

[TexCatholic4JMJ]

Then also state the evil actions of Romney who would add $2 T to the US Terrorism budget. Let’s stop assuming that either candidate is of himself intrinsically evil or intrinsically good or better. This is sinful thinking - sin is the very act of accusing. Someone needs to post the pro’s and and con’s of each candidate on EVERY issue. Then this will become a meaningful discussion…until then it’s just an instrument of division. That itself is the sin.

Priestsforlife.com has a chart comparison of the candidates listing many issues. As Catholic
Christians we are to choose good versus evil. Choosing a good or the better candidate is
not accusing. If things are apparent, that is not accusing. I also do not think that anyone
said a candidate was intrinsically evil, but that his actions so far on certain issues are.

$2 T… please! Where did you get that and where do you get that it is an evil action,
even IF it is true???

 

[tskrobacz]

Goodness does not move by promotion, but by attraction. The real, the transformed, attracts by it’s very nature. May goodness move for and through each of us as we cast our vote on Tuesday.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Then also state the evil actions of Romney who would add $2 T to the US Terrorism budget. Let’s stop assuming that either candidate is of himself intrinsically evil or intrinsically good or better. This is sinful thinking - sin is the very act of accusing. Someone needs to post the pro’s and and con’s of each candidate on EVERY issue. Then this will become a meaningful discussion…until then it’s just an instrument of division. That itself is the sin.

No it isn’t. One is not obliged, under pain of sin, to discuss every position a candidate has before he can call one or more of them “evil”. Nobody is saying Obama or Romney is “evil”. And there is nothing at all wrong with saying one or more of their positions are objectively evil.

Please source your asssertion that Romney is going to add two trillion to the “Terrorism budget”. There is no such thing as a specific “Terrorism budget”. Is he going to start one?

 

[ringil]

Long lines and confusion during early voting in Florida and Ohio are already showing that the efforts of Republican lawmakers to make it harder for people to vote are paying off. As we hit the final stretch in a close election, the question is whether it will be enough to put Mitt Romney over the edge. If it does, how can the GOP continue to claim they believe in the American values of freedom and democracy?

The early-voting debacle in the Sunshine State is deliberate. To treat this as the unfortunate result of ineptitude is to miss the point – Florida Republicans designed the system to work this way.

GOP policymakers want long lines; they want to make it very difficult for voters to participate in their own democracy; they want Americans to get discouraged and walk away. As one Republican state lawmaker argued after the 2010 election, “I want the people in the State of Florida to want to vote as bad as that person in Africa who is willing to walk 200 miles for that opportunity he’s never had before in his life. This should not be easy.”

maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/11/05/14940915-a-feature-not-a-bug?lite

Kudos to Rachel Maddow for covering this story in depth and for playing this clip of Paul Weyrich to provide some historical context to why conservatives traditionally want to make it harder for people to vote:

Paul Weyrich, “father” of the right-wing movement and co-founder of the Heritage Foundation, Moral Majority and various other groups tells his flock that he doesn’t want people to vote. He complains that fellow Christians have “Goo-Goo Syndrome”: Good Government. Classic clip from 1980. This guy still gives weekly strategy sessions to Republicans nowadays. The entire dialog from the clip:

“Now many of our Christians have what I call the goo-goo syndrome — good government. They want everybody to vote. I don’t want everybody to vote. Elections are not won by a majority of people, they never have been from the beginning of our country and they are not now. As a matter of fact, our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down.”

youtube.com/watch?v=8GBAsFwPglw

Catholics win by winning over people’s hearts and minds. We need to differentiate ourselves from Christians who would use other tactics to impose their will on the American people. To do otherwise is to support tyranny. It is as simple as that.

I agree that there are purposeful means being employed to keep Democratic voters away from casting their ballots in FL.

 

[estesbob]

Auto dialers are the worst, especially after a busy 24 or 48 hour shift.

I am getting 7 or 8 phone calls a day and a couple dozen emails. Not only did i vote two weeks ago but i am 1100 miles away from Colorado now!

 

[Ridgerunner]

All or nothing, dualistic thinking is exactly the opposite of what Jesus taught. We are all broken, we are all wounded and we are all (democrats and republicans) within the unitive mystery that is the Christ. Perfection is always the ability to include imperfection. Until and unless we can see that both candidates have both dark and light we are not voting from an enlightened perspective. Any attempt to demonize one candidate or the other is ITSELF demonic and diabolical.

Jesus was quite clear in saying what things were evil and what were good. One trusts that you are not accusing Him of being dualistic or diabolical.

There really is such a thing as truth, and no amount of woundedness makes right wrong or wrong right.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Long lines and confusion during early voting in Florida and Ohio are already showing that the efforts of Republican lawmakers to make it harder for people to vote are paying off. As we hit the final stretch in a close election, the question is whether it will be enough to put Mitt Romney over the edge. If it does, how can the GOP continue to claim they believe in the American values of freedom and democracy?

The early-voting debacle in the Sunshine State is deliberate. To treat this as the unfortunate result of ineptitude is to miss the point – Florida Republicans designed the system to work this way.

GOP policymakers want long lines; they want to make it very difficult for voters to participate in their own democracy; they want Americans to get discouraged and walk away. As one Republican state lawmaker argued after the 2010 election, “I want the people in the State of Florida to want to vote as bad as that person in Africa who is willing to walk 200 miles for that opportunity he’s never had before in his life. This should not be easy.”

maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/11/05/14940915-a-feature-not-a-bug?lite

Kudos to Rachel Maddow for covering this story in depth and for playing this clip of Paul Weyrich to provide some historical context to why conservatives traditionally want to make it harder for people to vote:

Paul Weyrich, “father” of the right-wing movement and co-founder of the Heritage Foundation, Moral Majority and various other groups tells his flock that he doesn’t want people to vote. He complains that fellow Christians have “Goo-Goo Syndrome”: Good Government. Classic clip from 1980. This guy still gives weekly strategy sessions to Republicans nowadays. The entire dialog from the clip:

“Now many of our Christians have what I call the goo-goo syndrome — good government. They want everybody to vote. I don’t want everybody to vote. Elections are not won by a majority of people, they never have been from the beginning of our country and they are not now. As a matter of fact, our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down.”

youtube.com/watch?v=8GBAsFwPglw

Catholics win by winning over people’s hearts and minds. We need to differentiate ourselves from Christians who would use other tactics to impose their will on the American people. To do otherwise is to support tyranny. It is as simple as that.

Seems to me like democrats are coming up excuses; if Rommey wins it must be because republicans hindered early voting. Obama’s department of justice approved FL’s early voting law

If waiting time to vote is long that means the elderly are affected who have been trending as a republican base

2008 in Ohio there were 10 hour lines and 6 hour lines to vote and who was the SOS? Democrat Jennifer Brunner

This is the 1st election all Ohio voters were sent an absentee ballot request form. If republicans wanted to disenfranchise people from voting why have this new rule

Voting made easier has not increased voter turn out in Ohio

 

[tskrobacz]

Priestsforlife.com has a chart comparison of the candidates listing many issues. As Catholic
Christians we are to choose good versus evil. Choosing a good or the better candidate is
not accusing. If things are apparent, that is not accusing. I also do not think that anyone
said a candidate was intrinsically evil, but that his actions so far on certain issues are.

$2 T… please! Where did you get that and where do you get that it is an evil action,
even IF it is true???

As that chart clearly shows neither candidate is better than the other - they are each objectionable and reasonable on a variety of issues. They are both a mixture of dark and light, as are we ALL. Romney wants to add $2T to the defense budget in a time of budget deficits and when the military is not asking for additional funding - this is nothing more than a move to enable the US power elite to indiscriminately murder our “enemy” via drones and other sophisticated weapons to ensure US domination of the worlds resources.

This does nothing to serve the poor or protect lives and it creates jobs solely in the interest of the power elite.

 

[iloveangels]

As that chart clearly shows neither candidate is better than the other - they are each objectionable and reasonable on a variety of issues. They are both a mixture of dark and light, as are we ALL. Romney wants to add $2T to the defense budget in a time of budget deficits and when the military is not asking for additional funding - this is nothing more than a move to enable the US power elite to indiscriminately murder our “enemy” via drones and other sophisticated weapons to ensure US domination of the worlds resources.

This does nothing to serve the poor or protect lives and it creates jobs solely in the interest of the power elite.

You don’t think abortion is serious?

 

[TexCatholic4JMJ]

As that chart clearly shows neither candidate is better than the other - they are each objectionable and reasonable on a variety of issues. They are both a mixture of dark and light, as are we ALL. Romney wants to add $2T to the defense budget in a time of budget deficits and when the military is not asking for additional funding - this is nothing more than a move to enable the US power elite to indiscriminately murder our “enemy” via drones and other sophisticated weapons to ensure US domination of the worlds resources.

This does nothing to serve the poor or protect lives and it creates jobs solely in the interest of the power elite.

Where do you get the $2T? Since this info has been asked for before and it has not been
answered, I’m going to assume it is an Obama “talking point” and as such, inaccurate, or
taken out of context.
I’m sorry to hear you are supporting the items addressed on the comparison chart. Most
were easy to spot as against our faith’s teachings on the Obama side.

As for the poor, most want a good job. Even the food stamps don’t buy what they were
buying 4 years ago. And those who have jobs are finding it harder to get to work with
the price of gas. Obama has not, nor will he ever help in this area. So the poor are
the ones most suffering under Obama’s policies.

 

[LotusCarsLtd]

You don’t think abortion is serious?

As an outside observer of this conversation, I agree that abortion is deadly serious and for that reason I did not and never would vote for Obama (well, that, but also his incompetence, lack of respect for religious liberty, amongst other things).

That being said, what do we do about our counter terrorism efforts? Oftentimes I question if they only serve to harm our civil rights, kill lots of innocent bystanders, and generally do nothing to actually stop terrorism.

 

[meltzerboy]

Long lines and confusion during early voting in Florida and Ohio are already showing that the efforts of Republican lawmakers to make it harder for people to vote are paying off. As we hit the final stretch in a close election, the question is whether it will be enough to put Mitt Romney over the edge. If it does, how can the GOP continue to claim they believe in the American values of freedom and democracy?

The early-voting debacle in the Sunshine State is deliberate. To treat this as the unfortunate result of ineptitude is to miss the point – Florida Republicans designed the system to work this way.

GOP policymakers want long lines; they want to make it very difficult for voters to participate in their own democracy; they want Americans to get discouraged and walk away. As one Republican state lawmaker argued after the 2010 election, “I want the people in the State of Florida to want to vote as bad as that person in Africa who is willing to walk 200 miles for that opportunity he’s never had before in his life. This should not be easy.”

maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/11/05/14940915-a-feature-not-a-bug?lite

Kudos to Rachel Maddow for covering this story in depth and for playing this clip of Paul Weyrich to provide some historical context to why conservatives traditionally want to make it harder for people to vote:

Paul Weyrich, “father” of the right-wing movement and co-founder of the Heritage Foundation, Moral Majority and various other groups tells his flock that he doesn’t want people to vote. He complains that fellow Christians have “Goo-Goo Syndrome”: Good Government. Classic clip from 1980. This guy still gives weekly strategy sessions to Republicans nowadays. The entire dialog from the clip:

“Now many of our Christians have what I call the goo-goo syndrome — good government. They want everybody to vote. I don’t want everybody to vote. Elections are not won by a majority of people, they never have been from the beginning of our country and they are not now. As a matter of fact, our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down.”

youtube.com/watch?v=8GBAsFwPglw

Catholics win by winning over people’s hearts and minds. We need to differentiate ourselves from Christians who would use other tactics to impose their will on the American people. To do otherwise is to support tyranny. It is as simple as that.

I strongly agree. The whole notion of intentionally–I would even call it strategically–making voting more difficult, to diminish the number of Democratic voters and, in particular, African-Americans as well as the elderly, all in the name of voter fraud, is offensive to say the least. And I can assure my Republican friends that I would be just as upset if these shenanigans in Ohio and Florida affected Republican voters, which they in fact do but in smaller numbers. That is why I am concerned that voters in New York (admittedly a blue state), specifically those who live in Staten Island, who are largely Republican, may be disenfranchised due to the aftermath of the hurricane. Others have made the case that the election should never be postponed due to any kind of emergency, but I still have my doubts about that.

 

[estesbob]

I am loathe to pray for a specific outcome for this election as i know the outcome, regardless, will be Gods will. What I pray for is the grace to accept a Romeny victory without gloating and an Obama victory without rancor.

 

[Tampa_Dave]

I am loathe to pray for a specific outcome for this election as i know the outcome, regardless, will be Gods will. What I pray for is the grace to accept a Romeny victory without gloating and an Obama victory without rancor.

Good luck with that! There will be much anger throuout the country regardless of the outcome. America is hopelessly divided. Nor did the skies become bluer or the oceans recede. I do not see reconciliation between the factions.

 

[meltzerboy]

Good luck with that! There will be much anger throuout the country regardless of the outcome. America is hopelessly divided. Nor did the skies become bluer or the oceans recede. I do not see reconciliation between the factions.

Yes, there will always be partisanship, bitter at times, but at least we can all pray that whoever is elected can somehow be able to work together with Congress to help the American people and our country.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Good luck with that! There will be much anger throuout the country regardless of the outcome. America is hopelessly divided. Nor did the skies become bluer or the oceans recede. I do not see reconciliation between the factions.

Do I ever agree with you! Don’t want the aftermath of the election to degenerate into banana republic style gunfire.

 

[estesbob]

I strongly agree. The whole notion of intentionally–I would even call it strategically–making voting more difficult, to diminish the number of Democratic voters and, in particular, African-Americans as well as the elderly, all in the name of voter fraud, is offensive to say the least. And I can assure my Republican friends that I would be just as upset if these shenanigans in Ohio and Florida affected Republican voters, which they in fact do but in smaller numbers. That is why I am concerned that voters in New York (admittedly a blue state), specifically those who live in Staten Island, who are largely Republican, may be disenfranchised due to the aftermath of the hurricane. Others have made the case that the election should never be postponed due to any kind of emergency, but I still have my doubts about that.

There has been no effort to disenfranchise anyone. What we are seeing is the start of the narrative that will be pushed over and over again starting Wednesday. republicans stole the election, America is a racist country.

 

[meltzerboy]

There has been no effort to disenfranchise anyone. What we are seeing is the start of the narrative that will be pushed over and over again starting Wednesday. republicans stole the election, America is a racist country.

I can’t speak for other supporters of Obama, but I promise not to push that narrative if Romney wins. What I fear especially are the legal challenges regardless of the winner. Our country doesn’t need that.

 

[Cider]

I really don’t understand what there is to gloat about on either side. This isn’t a game of oneupmanship. Lives and livelyhoods are at stake as well as the longterm security of our country and religious freedom. My husband is already talking about what we might do if things get worse.

 

[Tampa_Dave]

I can’t speak for other supporters of Obama, but I promise not to push that narrative if Romney wins. What I fear especially are the legal challenges regardless of the winner. Our country doesn’t need that.

If Obama loses, I expect massive legal challenges throughout multiple states. Remember the bald guy in Florida counting the hanging chads? He will be coming out of retirement. For some reason, I expect focused legal challenges from Romney if he loses, versus the shotgun approach I anticipate with an Obama loss. Obviously I have no substantive proof to support my theory. Just an intuitive guess based on my perception of the Obama campaign leadership. Axelrod, Plouffe and Jarrett will never go out with a whimper.