Obama and the bishops: time to hit the reset button [NCRep]

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I couldn’t read the entire article. It seemed a little silly to me. Criticizing people for praying for the conversion of the president and bishops speaking the truth??? Seriously?
 
Magnus467 said:
I couldn’t read the entire article. It seemed a little silly to me. Criticizing people for praying for the conversion of the president and bishops speaking the truth??? Seriously?
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Please read the entire article. Nowhere does it suggest or say that praying for conversion or speaking the truth is a problem.
 
From the article:
A New Jersey bishop compared candidate Obama to Herod (the one who had John the Baptist beheaded)
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Do you mean the Herod who slaughtered the innocents? I believe that was the analogy the bishop was making. If so, you’ve got the wrong Herod!
Appallingly, Masses in two Midwest dioceses were offered “for the conversion of Barack Obama.”
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That’s enough for me.
diggerdomer said:
Please read the entire article. Nowhere does it suggest or say that praying for conversion or speaking the truth is a problem.
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What article are you reading?
 
I found the comments from the readers more interesting than the article. Some readers place themselves above the bishops. It’s interesting to see Catholics say such things as they “no longer listen to the bishops.” If that’s the case, then you’re not in communion with the bishops. So why remain Catholic?

Another person who arrogantly said, “We now have theology degrees” and proceeded to ignore the theological issues that separate the bishops and the White House. A good theologian looks for the links between the bishops’ issues and the White House.

As one who also has a theology degree, the link is that the fundamental right to life is not being guarranteed by the White House and the bishops believe that it is the job of every head of state to guarrantee it. Now from there we can begin a debate as to whether this is a realistic assumption on the part of the bishops or not. But this respondent, failed to see the link and bragged about having a theology degree, thus being at the same level as the bishops to debate with them. It shows another misunderstanding and a poor theologian. A theologian is a student, not a shepherd. A good theologian would know this. The role of the theologian is to study. The role of the Bishop is to teach. But this theologian wanted to use his/her degree in theology to do . . . ?

There was another person who chimed in with the original author that the bishops are rude to the President, while at the same time implying that the bishops are ignorant and should therefore receive a copy of the article. I found that interesting. The bishops are rude to the president and that’s wrong, but everyone can be rude to the bishops and that’s acceptable. To the best of my knowledge, the President is repersentative of the people. The bishop is the successor of the Apostles. I would opine that the bishops rank a little higher than the president when we look at this picture with our eyes focussed on eternity.

I agree that the bishops lack the saavy and smoothness of President Obama. I also have to admit that Mr. Obama presents well and many of our bishops do not do so. I even admit that I like Mr. Obama’s outward appearance. He’s charming, eloquent, dignified, and exudes warmth and authority at the same time, many of our bishops do not.

However, along with these admissions, I also have to admit that these are only the apperances and our lives and salvation are not damned or saved by appearances, but by truth.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Luke65 said:
What article are you reading?
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Not the one we’re reading, obviously:
Appallingly, Masses in two Midwest dioceses were offered “for the conversion of Barack Obama.”
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I should make two points here:
  • It should be appalling that Mass would be offered for the conversion of the president.
  • It is very inappropriate to offer such an intention for Mass.
Let me expound upon those comments.

When we refer to conversion, we should be praying for the conversion of heart from a pro-choice position to a pro-life position for Barack Obama, not necessarily the conversion to the Catholic faith. The latter is good, but let’s take it one step at a time. After all, we have many pro-choice leaders who claim to be Catholic.

It should be appalling that people would have a reason to offer such an intention.

Furthermore, it is very inappropriate to offer such an intention for Mass. This is not politically correct and people will look at us funny.

If it is good to pray for the conversion of sinners in private, then it is surely a good thing to offer as a mass intention, unless it involves some private information that will cause scandal or harm to another if it is made public.

PSST! I don’t know if you heard this yet, but rumors suggest that Obama might be pro-choice! I don’t know if I should believe them. After all, that’s crazy talk!

If people don’t like us proclaiming the truth about abortion and praying earnestly and publicly for its end, SO BE IT. We do not need to consult anyone but God Himself and His earthly representatives to determine what we may or may not pray for, and we certainly do not need to consult a magazine before we pray.

That having been said, I think the way the FOCA bill was handled was a travesty. Now the pro-choice movement knows that all they have to do is jangle an audacious bill in front of us and we’ll be fixated on that while the real legislation gets passed.

Edit: I didn’t see that we had quoted the same passage from the original. Was that an edit, or was I unobservant?
 
I will begin by confessing that Im not sure what is apalling here. However, there is nothing wrong with offering a mass intention for the President’s conversion from pro-choice to pro-life. Why? Because it is public knowledge that he is pro-choice. It is also public knowledge that he is very extreme in his tolerance to abortion, such as partial birth abortion. It is very public that he is for embyonic stem cell research.

If the people attending the mass were non Catholics, it would be politically incorrect. But since Catholics are the ones who go to mass, with a few other visitors sprinkled in, there is nothing to be offended about. Catholics should pray publicly for the Presidents conversion on this issue, just as we pray that world leaders exercise their offices with justice or we offer a special mass for a president who dies in office, even if he’s not Catholic.

Actually, every diocese is required to celebrate a mass of the resurrection for their religious leaders who die in office, such as governors and presidents in the case of our country. Why not offer a mass for his conversion to the Gospel of Life?

I found it silly that the article used the word apalling.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
JReducation said:
I will begin by confessing that Im not sure what is apalling here. However, there is nothing wrong with offering a mass intention for the President’s conversion from pro-choice to pro-life. Why? Because it is public knowledge that he is pro-choice. It is also public knowledge that he is very extreme in his tolerance to abortion, such as partial birth abortion. It is very public that he is for embyonic stem cell research.

If the people attending the mass were non Catholics, it would be politically incorrect. But since Catholics are the ones who go to mass, with a few other visitors sprinkled in, there is nothing to be offended about. Catholics should pray publicly for the Presidents conversion on this issue, just as we pray that world leaders exercise their offices with justice or we offer a special mass for a president who dies in office, even if he’s not Catholic.

Actually, every diocese is required to celebrate a mass of the resurrection for their religious leaders who die in office, such as governors and presidents in the case of our country. Why not offer a mass for his conversion to the Gospel of Life?

I found it silly that the article used the word apalling.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
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Apparently, sarcasm doesn’t transmit well over the internet.

It is appalling that we would have any elected leaders who would not be pro-life, and thus that we should have occasion to offer such mass intentions. And yes, it may be politically correct, but by being politically incorrect when the faith requires me to just means that I am being like Christ, which we are commanded to do.
 
"I exhort therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, thanksgivings, be made for all men; for kings and all that are in high place".

This was St. Paul talking about the pagan rulers of the world…the rulers who commited infanticide and admitted proudly that it was infanticide. It is very correct to offer mass for the conversion of the leader of our nation. The mass is the greatest sacrifice offered anywhere on earth and as such it should be done in honor of important things such as these. Something as important as this should not be limited to private prayer alone. You do whats Right in life, not whats politically correct. I’m with St. Paul on this one.
 
andrewagill said:
Apparently, sarcasm doesn’t transmit well over the internet.
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A good thing to remember, Andrew. There are some liberal “Catholics” on this forum who would say this:
Furthermore, it is very inappropriate to offer such an intention for Mass. This is not politically correct and people will look at us funny.
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and actually mean it.
 
James924 said:
A good thing to remember, Andrew. There are some liberal “Catholics” on this forum who would say this:

and actually mean it.
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This is not directed at James. Please do not read it this way. James pointed out that some would say that “this is not plitically correct and people will look at us funny.”

I rarely get heated up on these forums, but this is my button right here, abortion. If one believes that it is more important to appear politically correct than protect mankinds right to be born, one has serious priority problems.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF :mad:
 
Instead of a reset button as the non Catholic author wants the Bishops to hit, I think they need to hit the fast forward button on the issue of life. They need to step up their instruction of the faithful to always value life. To call the ND response :shamrock2:a tantrum is belittling the prolife effort. Catholics need to take advantage of every opportunity to support life and to demonstrate for life.

One thing the author does have right: Catholics are divided. Many Catholics have learned to accept pro-abortion candidates and indeed many Catholics have themselves exhibited pro-choice actions (like cantraception). I would say they are lapsed in their faith as the rest of us are out having tantrums. Just my :twocents:
 
As Far as Obama goes the NCR has become the Newsweek of religous publications.
 
There is oen point here that was mentioned and it was true. The Holy Father did ask the US bishops, via the Nuncio, to tone it down. Apparently, the Nuncio had to deliver the message to the USCCB that some bishops were being rude and rudeness toward the President would not be tolerated by the Holy Father.

The Holy Father wants the issue faced head on around the world, but with good manners. The problem is that some people translate good mannes into political correctness. That’s not what the Vatican is saying.

The Vatican is saying that a bishop must always be a gentleman. You should be neither a slug who sits around and does nothing, nor a pro-life marine who attacks when he sees the whites of their eyes. The message is that a bishop is a polite and educated person who should speak the truth without attacking the person.

I believe that this message applies to all of us. We often attack people, call them names, refer to them as the “anti Christ” or “murderer” and that’s what the Holy Father does not want. He does not want the “in your face behavior”. To be pro human dignity means to treat every human being in a dignified manner and to behave in a dignified manner. In this, John Paul and Benedict both have set a good example.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
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