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ThePuppyTurtle
Guest
Al Gore is a layperson. His personal opinion is irrelevant. What matters is what the evidence indicates, and the people most likely to know that are scientists.
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ThePuppyTurtle
Guest
The term “climate change” predated the term global warming I think and I know it is at least as old as the 50s.
Climate change is the scientific, technical term, global warming is a layman’s term.
Even if they changed its name, what would that prove?
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Monkey1976
Guest
No problem - it’s a minor passion of mine
The reasoning really boils down to the fear that popular culture built around any form of nuclear power that started with the timing of The China Syndrome and the Three Mile Island incident, only grew with Chernobyl, and was built up again with Fukushima. The real lessons from these are actually pretty simple: TMI - Worked as designed. Total radiation release was less than a fraction of what a coal plat releases in a year’s time. Chernobyl - Don’t use reactors of that design. Fukushima - Don’t build water-moderated reactors in a major fault zone.That fear - combined with over-regulation to the point where in some areas, the radiation allowed from the plant itself is actually less than the natural background level - has pretty much halted the development of nuclear power. It would take a major effort to get it back underway, but a lot of specialists think that a suitable program for thorium and breeder reactors could be done for $1-2 billion - about the price of a single Stealth Bomber or new submarine. We just need the political will to make it happen.
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SamH
Guest
Source? If you are going to insult a fellow poster and deny common knowledge at least back it up.
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SamH
Guest
Climate change has been around as long as the earth. What does that prove?
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SamH
Guest
Agreed. And scientist say global warming stopped in 1998.
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lynnvinc
Guest
One should understand there has been less radiance from the sun for the past 15 years – it’s been in a deep solar minima. Under ordinary circumstances, without the GHGs in the atmosphere we’ve added, the average temp should have come down to 1960s level. And in fact there was SOME warming over the past 15 years but not as much.
http://www.skepticalscience.com/graphics/Solar_vs_temp_500.jpg
Note how the warming line tracks the solar irradiance line up to about 1980, then shoots up away from it.
One should understand there are many factors that determine the global average temp. GHGs in the atmosphere are just one. In this situations, with all the “noise” of the other factors, it is necessary to look at long-term trends over 20-30 years at least, not 10-15 years.
And there is the issue of heat being stored/used in other places beside the atmosphere – earth systems are fairly complex. They have found that a lot of heat is being stored in the ocean, and also used to melt the snow and ice. See image:
http://www.skepticalscience.com/graphics/Total_Heat_Content_2011_med.jpg
Another factor is that developing countries, like China, have been emitting a huge quantity of SO2 in their coal-burning (partly to creat products for us
). This SO2 has a short-term (weeks) cooling effect; long term with GHGs in the atmosphere a lot longer than SO2, there will be great warming.A big volcanic eruption can also have a short-term cooling effect, tho I don’t think they consider the Iceland eruptions of a few years ago to have had much effect.
Furthermore, there is a lag-time between emissions and warming, and there is much warming “in the pipes” from what we have already emitted, that would be playing out in warmer global average temps over this century, even if we stop emitting right now. Some scientists suggest there is enough to warm the climate 2.4C - see Ramanathan, V., and Y. Feng. 2008. “On Avoiding Dangerous Anthropogenic Interference with the Climate System: Formidable Challenges Ahead.” Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 105(38): 14245-14250, pnas.org/content/105/38/14245.full
So with all these factors – some of them cooling factors – the issue is not that there has been less warming over the past 15 years, but these have not led to cooling.
And what we can expect over the next few decades is that the warming will take-off at a greater rate once these cooling effects (lower solar irradiance and SO2 aerosols) have reduced or stopped.
And once it warms another 1 or 2C, then imagine how much worse the heatwaves, wildfires, storms and hurricanes, droughts and floods, mudslides killing 100s (as in India recently), vector disease spread, and agricultural harm will be. If things are getting just a tad bad now (and they are), imagine how much worse they will be in a world 2C warmer than our current .8C warmer world. And they expect it could get at high as 4-6C warmer by 2100 in a business-as-usual scenario. That’s game over for most life on earth – tho the harms would take 100s & 1000s of years to play out.
Are we really willing to risk that, simply bec we absolutely refuse to turn out lights not in use and the 100s of other things we can and should do – most of them saving us $$ without lowering our living standards. Are we really so callous about life, even of our own progeny.
The story of our time is not the prodigal son, but the prodigal parents, and their children and progeny (those that survive) may be spitting on our graves, assuming the graves are not underwater, then they’ll be spitting in the ocean.
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lynnvinc
Guest
I keep in my mind a story of an ardent pro-choice worker I read about somewhere. One day she received some anti-abortion literature with a picture of a fetus that had been aborted - with body parts in a jamble. She tore it up in anger and threw it in her waste basket.
Her 5 year old daughter happened to pick up the pieces from the waste basket, then asked her mother, “Is this a baby?”
It was the turning point. The woman thereafter became an ardent anti-abortion worker.
I would hope there would be some turning points for the skeptics, for even if they are skeptical, they should at least consider the possibility of AGW and its harms. The big question then is, is it worth risking life on earth, and causing future generations to go thru hell on earth, bec ??? Bec one does not want to spend $50 extra for the energy efficient appliance that will save them $500 over its lifetime. Bec one just cannot be troubled to reduce, reuse, and recycle, or even investigat the possibility of going on alt energy, looking into whether some electric co in their area is providing alt energy.
I pray for turning points in people’s minds and hearts. Yes, it is a baby, and we are responsible for its life and well-being…
Her 5 year old daughter happened to pick up the pieces from the waste basket, then asked her mother, “Is this a baby?”
It was the turning point. The woman thereafter became an ardent anti-abortion worker.
I would hope there would be some turning points for the skeptics, for even if they are skeptical, they should at least consider the possibility of AGW and its harms. The big question then is, is it worth risking life on earth, and causing future generations to go thru hell on earth, bec ??? Bec one does not want to spend $50 extra for the energy efficient appliance that will save them $500 over its lifetime. Bec one just cannot be troubled to reduce, reuse, and recycle, or even investigat the possibility of going on alt energy, looking into whether some electric co in their area is providing alt energy.
I pray for turning points in people’s minds and hearts. Yes, it is a baby, and we are responsible for its life and well-being…
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CaptFun
Guest
CaptFun responds in RED
The human body is made up of carbon at the rate of 18%. Use of this device can reduce a human body by approximately that much if a person is long necked or plump cheeked. Though traditionally used in such a way as to terminate the carbon based entity by excising the top - the “carbon footprint” can be reduced by inverting the subject and doubling the efficiency per appendage (two feet vs. one head) to the benefit of the planet and death penalty opponents at the same time.
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Oh maybe I’m too cynical. I forget sometimes that the POTUS is friends with one of the most famous “Weathermen” of all times; and his wife who was involved in the same business.
Given the importance of the results, perhaps the weather should be tinkered with by someone with a more consistently winning record. Like former Laker Coach Phil Jackson. Or maybe delay the crusade and let God soldier on a bit more. :tanning: :heaven:
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)Obama Announces New Climate Plan
Does God Still Have A Climate Plan? Do The Plans Agree?
natureworldnews.com/articles/2677/20130626/obama-announces-new-climate-plan-prioritizes-limiting-carbon.htm
President Barack Obama has announced a broad plan to deal with the effects of the climate change, specially the rising sea level and severe weather. The plan also seeks to put in place regulation to control carbon dioxide emission at power plants…[T]he plan outlines a blueprint to expand production of solar and wind energy and include billions of dollars in loan to finance the development of cleaner fossil-fuel and other energy technologies…
I get it. There is not enough solar or wind energy! Or there is … but we are just not using it right or benefitting. So … stop doing what works and do something different? There’s a PLAN to do a BLUEPRINT … to EXPAND production- 'kay and it will require BILLIONS of dollars in LOANS (from whom to whom with whom paying them off)?
WOW! Didn’t see that coming after all the “successes” we’ve had I thought we might be DONE with this by now.
The Plan:
whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/image/president27sclimateactionplan.pdf
A good Catholic response (the plan is good, but what about also saving the unborn from abortion):
catholicecology.blogspot.in/2013/06/president-obama-and-future-generations.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed:+CatholicEcology+(Catholic+Ecology
The human body is made up of carbon at the rate of 18%. Use of this device can reduce a human body by approximately that much if a person is long necked or plump cheeked. Though traditionally used in such a way as to terminate the carbon based entity by excising the top - the “carbon footprint” can be reduced by inverting the subject and doubling the efficiency per appendage (two feet vs. one head) to the benefit of the planet and death penalty opponents at the same time.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Oh maybe I’m too cynical. I forget sometimes that the POTUS is friends with one of the most famous “Weathermen” of all times; and his wife who was involved in the same business.
Given the importance of the results, perhaps the weather should be tinkered with by someone with a more consistently winning record. Like former Laker Coach Phil Jackson. Or maybe delay the crusade and let God soldier on a bit more. :tanning: :heaven:
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qui_est_ce
Guest
You crack me up!CaptFun responds in RED
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f33/Maxc7001/Guillotine.jpg
The human body is made up of carbon at the rate of 18%. Use of this device can reduce a human body by approximately that much if a person is long necked or plump cheeked. Though traditionally used in such a way as to terminate the carbon based entity by excising the top - the “carbon footprint” can be reduced by inverting the subject and doubling the efficiency per appendage (two feet vs. one head) to the benefit of the planet and death penalty opponents at the same time.
http://gulagbound.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/090820-ayers-dohrn-chicagoist-2004.jpg
Oh maybe I’m too cynical. I forget sometimes that the POTUS is friends with one of the most famous “Weathermen” of all times; and his wife who was involved in the same business.
Given the importance of the results, perhaps the weather should be tinkered with by someone with a more consistently winning record. Like former Laker Coach Phil Jackson. Or maybe delay the crusade and let God soldier on a bit more. :tanning: :heaven:
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lynnvinc
Guest
No, no, no… You really don’t get it at all. Just think of all the methane from decomposing bodies. We just can’t have that. Remember methane is 25 times more potent GH gas than CO2. It might trigger runaway warming as on Venus, and then where would we be?
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lynnvinc
Guest
God’s plan is for us to be good and stop causing climate change and extreme harm to His creation, including us people. That’s the sense I get when I read what JPII, BXVI, and the bishops have written about it.
However, God’s plan would go much further than Obama’s plan – since Obama is supporting fracking, which is causing enormous harms to local people, and will do nothing to help reduce global warming when one considers the fugitive methane and the enormous amounts of water and other resources required.
And it seems Obama is also posed to okay the XL Keystone pipeline, which will more or less guarantee a lot of global warming. (That is how environmentalists are now analyziing his slippery speech.)
Plus, Congress (which is exceedingly evil and anti-God’s plan on global warming) is going to shoot down whatever is in Obama’s plan in whatever way they can.
So we are back to square one basically – totally going against God’s plan
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qui_est_ce
Guest
No, no, no… You really don’t get it at all. Just think of all the methane from decomposing bodies. We just can’t have that. Remember methane is 25 times more potent GH gas than CO2. It might trigger runaway warming as on Venus, and then where would we be?
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Gricken
Guest
Hmm. Wellat least he’s trying to take care of his planet. Despite his other faults.
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Gricken
Guest
he doesn’t plan to change it on his own. He plans to do what he can.
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estesbob
Guest
I see wee have seen another term enter the ever changing tonsil escorting almost lexicon. It’s l plateau.This was laid out in excririating detail by the NYT Here’s had the new dodge works.Well although it’s true we never had no warming in the last 16 years and not one single model created by the so called experts both before and during this time came even close to being true this doesn’t prove anything.we have just been on a"plateau".
Reminds me of the Wizard of Oz"pay no attention tho the man behind the curtain"
Reminds me of the Wizard of Oz"pay no attention tho the man behind the curtain"
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estesbob
Guest
None of his policies will have any effect on the way he’s lives his life.But it will have a devastating effect on the poor and middle class.
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CaptFun
Guest
You are wickedly funny (my Massachusetts relatives would say). Or am I posing, as if I follow each scientific reference, in a “what wonderful clothes, my Emperor!” way?!No, no, no… You really don’t get it at all. Just think of all the methane from decomposing bodies. We just can’t have that. Remember methane is 25 times more potent GH gas than CO2. It might trigger runaway warming as on Venus, and then where would we be?
I feel similarly when I consider "sexual re-assignment". Makes me remember **WHO did the original assigning. **
There’s this former Nobel Peace Prize winner and FORMER President that is writing his own version of the Bible now … I wonder what his take on that would be?
religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/17/publishing-study-bible-jimmy-carter-opens-up-about-a-faith-filled-life/
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President Jimmy Carter’s speaks at an interfaith service in New York in 1991.
– cnn.com
Maybe the former President will counsel the current one on how best to align God’s plan with Obama’s per the weather … if that is the order of priority these days. Since the “other JC” is adding unto the Bible it might be a simple task to find (or provide) a scriptural explanation for what the administration should do, (is doing or will do)!
The spirit of “Yes We Can” and “Forward” being unified with “Trust Me” is a trinity we " …can believe in!"
npatrol: 
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CaptFun
Guest
10 kew! Thinks! :curtsey: < in the spirit of the times. < :imsorry:
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lynnvinc
Guest
Got me thinking about hermaphroditism (which is different from homosexuality) and the movie HAWAII.
Some people are born between male and female – either thru genetic, hormonal, or other such anomalies. I think it’s about 1 to 2% of the population. Of course, all that comes thru nature God has designed or allowed. But different cultures treat these people differently. Some consider them very special and give them some high rank or make them into shamans. In America we tend to do surgery and make them into strictly male or female.
In the traditional culture of Hawaii they would kill the child at birth, and any other child with a deformity or defect.
In the movie HAWAII, set in the 1820s, the queen (married to her brother, the king, as was custom) wants to become a Christian and see Jesus, but has been told she must renounce her marriage to her brother. She finally does and is baptized into the faith.
She has also sent her son to study theology in the US, and become a pastor. He comes back with a senior pastor, who is very strict and somewhat mean, to missionize Hawaii. When the young Hawaiian pastor returns, his sister (thinking she will be his wife) come and gives him a big hug and kiss; he pushes her away and tell her they cannot get married; she is heart-broken, bec she doesn’t understand.
When he tries to assume his rightful place in doing his pastor duties, the senior pastor prevents him and treats him really really badly. When there are issues with the people’s traditions, the young pastor tries to tell the senior pastor that the people don’t understand Christian ways, and it will take some time and patience and gentleness to convert them, the but older pastor just becomes more strict and mean.
In the end the young pastor, frustrated by the unChristian manner of the older one, gives up Christianity, marries his sister; they have a baby with a defect (horrible blemish, I think), he thinks it’s bec of his unfaithfulness to the Hawaiian religion/tradition, and they drown their baby.
The point is, as Christians we are called first and foremost to be loving and kind, and concerned. If we fail to address global warming, even if we have our doubts about it, we will be pushing people away from Christianity – a religion they will come consider evil for its evil effect on people.
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