Obama Announces New Climate Plan

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The truth is smog was much worse 50 years ago than it was now.
Yes, that was my point. I remember shoveling coal into our furnace in the late 50’s. My mom had to clean the window ledges daily.
 
The truth is smog was much worse 50 years ago than it was now.
It sure was. Longer ago it was worse still. I recall my father telling me that prior to WWII when he was young, it was dark at noon in downtown St. Louis. Like dusk. I recall his telling me that when he was a kid he would get his clothes all black if he climbed a tree, due to the coal soot. At one time I used to do appraising, and I went into attics to see how the insulation and wiring were and the roof structure. In old houses, there was all this coal soot on the rafters from long ago. In big cities, all you have to do is look right beneath the sills of windows to see the soot that has long since washed off the buildings themselves but has been protected by the overhang of the sills.

I doubt I can claim to be the most right wing person here. I am to the “left” of Mr. Mayo, depending on the issue. If it’s “leftist” to want to significantly improve the condition of the poorest of the poor; the ones who can’t help themselves, I suspect I’m a howling liberal compared to him. Look at it. SSI is a miserably low maintenance level. My wife works for an association for retarded citizens and if not for private food banks, those people wouldn’t even get decent nutrition, the government is so neglectful of them.

This government has shifted money from care for “chronic” conditions and patients to “well care”; the result being that providers are dumping my wife’s clients who, by definition, have “chronic conditions”. And now Obamacare is dumping another 17 million people onto Medicaid that’s already hard to get providers to accept.

Need I mention the shame of “cash for clunkers”; a subsidy to the upper middle class and wealthy at the expense of the poor who depend on “clunkers” to get to work, to the doctor, to school? An outrage.

When it comes to the truly poor, I guess I’m “left wing” and the current administration is “uber right wing”. The current administration is only “liberal” when it comes to middle class and super-wealthy welfare.

As people normally think of “left” and “right” in this country, MMGW “mediation” proponents are to the right of Marie Antoinette, precisely because they promote an agenda that will benefit the super-wealthy at the expense of the poor. “Let them burn cake to heat their houses” might be their updated motto.
 
Take a deep breath. This discussion has been going nowhere for quite some time. It’s plain to see that both sides are convinced they are right and both sides are convinced the evidence is on their side. I don’t think a situation like this will be solved by more argumentation, do any of you? Better we all remain friends.
One thing I often use to decide what to think and do in the face of uncertainty is Pascal’s (good Catholic) Wager, bec I understand science can be wrong…tho eventually it usually self-corrects with more and better data/theories from many angles (as has happened over the decades with AGW):
  1. THE FALSE POSITIVE: If there is no anthropogenic global warming, but we mitigate it anyway, reducing our GHGs (in sensible ways), we will end up saving a lot of money and helping the economy thru energy/resource efficiency/conservation and going on alt energy when feasible and affordable; Reduce, Reuse, Recycle; and we will reduce a host of other environmental problems, resource depletion, military expenses to ensure constant supply of those resources, etc. Some things even improve health and reduce crime, like walking and cycling (taking proper safety precautions) and eating low on the food chain, esp raw produce.
  2. THE TRUE NEGATIVE: If there is no anthropogenic global warming and we believe that and do not mitigate it, then we lose all of the benefits I listed above.
  3. THE TRUE POSITIVE: If there is anthropogenic global warming and we do mitigate it, then we will have reduced its harms, though there will still be a lot of harms from it, since there is a lot of warming in the pipes, even if we go full steam ahead with mitigation. We will have cut our losses and perhaps averted extreme catastrophe and omnicide. Plus we would have reduced many other environmental and other types of harms. The future will still be much worse for the kids, but it will perhaps be viable.
  4. THE FALSE NEGATIVE: If there is anthropogenic global warming and we fail to mitigate it, not only will we have failed to gain all the benefits under the false positive, but we will have doomed life on earth to a huge extinction level event, killing off a huge portion of humanity in the process over 100s & 1000s of years (a portion of our CO2 emissions has a very long residence in the atmosphere, even up to 100,000 years).
For me it is a no-brainer to turn off lights not in use, etc. Much prayer also helps in finding good solutions that save money or don’t cost. God so graciously helps even for the most silly of our requests 🙂
 
One thing I often use to decide what to think and do in the face of uncertainty is Pascal’s (good Catholic) Wager, bec I understand science can be wrong…tho eventually it usually self-corrects with more and better data/theories from many angles (as has happened over the decades with AGW):
  1. THE FALSE POSITIVE: If there is no anthropogenic global warming, but we mitigate it anyway, reducing our GHGs (in sensible ways), we will end up saving a lot of money and helping the economy thru energy/resource efficiency/conservation and going on alt energy when feasible and affordable; Reduce, Reuse, Recycle; and we will reduce a host of other environmental problems, resource depletion, military expenses to ensure constant supply of those resources, etc. Some things even improve health and reduce crime, like walking and cycling (taking proper safety precautions) and eating low on the food chain, esp raw produce.
  2. THE TRUE NEGATIVE: If there is no anthropogenic global warming and we believe that and do not mitigate it, then we lose all of the benefits I listed above.
  3. THE TRUE POSITIVE: If there is anthropogenic global warming and we do mitigate it, then we will have reduced its harms, though there will still be a lot of harms from it, since there is a lot of warming in the pipes, even if we go full steam ahead with mitigation. We will have cut our losses and perhaps averted extreme catastrophe and omnicide. Plus we would have reduced many other environmental and other types of harms. The future will still be much worse for the kids, but it will perhaps be viable.
  4. THE FALSE NEGATIVE: If there is anthropogenic global warming and we fail to mitigate it, not only will we have failed to gain all the benefits under the false positive, but we will have doomed life on earth to a huge extinction level event, killing off a huge portion of humanity in the process over 100s & 1000s of years (a portion of our CO2 emissions has a very long residence in the atmosphere, even up to 100,000 years).
For me it is a no-brainer to turn off lights not in use, etc. Much prayer also helps in finding good solutions that save money or don’t cost. God so graciously helps even for the most silly of our requests 🙂
There is a huge difference between turning off lights and installing a cap n trade system that will increase energy costs immensely and enrich the Govt and the wealthy). destroying to coal industry and killing untold millions in third world countries as the price of food and fuel skyrockets
 
One thing I often use to decide what to think and do in the face of uncertainty is Pascal’s (good Catholic) Wager, bec I understand science can be wrong…tho eventually it usually self-corrects with more and better data/theories from many angles (as has happened over the decades with AGW):
  1. THE FALSE POSITIVE: If there is no anthropogenic global warming, but we mitigate it anyway, reducing our GHGs (in sensible ways), we will end up saving a lot of money and helping the economy thru energy/resource efficiency/conservation and going on alt energy when feasible and affordable; Reduce, Reuse, Recycle; and we will reduce a host of other environmental problems, resource depletion, military expenses to ensure constant supply of those resources, etc. Some things even improve health and reduce crime, like walking and cycling (taking proper safety precautions) and eating low on the food chain, esp raw produce.
  2. THE TRUE NEGATIVE: If there is no anthropogenic global warming and we believe that and do not mitigate it, then we lose all of the benefits I listed above.
  3. THE TRUE POSITIVE: If there is anthropogenic global warming and we do mitigate it, then we will have reduced its harms, though there will still be a lot of harms from it, since there is a lot of warming in the pipes, even if we go full steam ahead with mitigation. We will have cut our losses and perhaps averted extreme catastrophe and omnicide. Plus we would have reduced many other environmental and other types of harms. The future will still be much worse for the kids, but it will perhaps be viable.
  4. THE FALSE NEGATIVE: If there is anthropogenic global warming and we fail to mitigate it, not only will we have failed to gain all the benefits under the false positive, but we will have doomed life on earth to a huge extinction level event, killing off a huge portion of humanity in the process over 100s & 1000s of years (a portion of our CO2 emissions has a very long residence in the atmosphere, even up to 100,000 years).
For me it is a no-brainer to turn off lights not in use, etc. Much prayer also helps in finding good solutions that save money or don’t cost. God so graciously helps even for the most silly of our requests 🙂
We have seen you post this before. But it really doesn’t resolve anything because it can support absolutely any proposition, no matter how preposterous. Substitute “man-eating Martians” for “MMGW” in the proposition and you end up with taking measures to defend against man-eating Martians.

That’s different, of course, from doing things like turning off lights when we leave a room, which are simple exercises in domestic economy.
 
As people normally think of “left” and “right” in this country, MMGW “mediation” proponents are to the right of Marie Antoinette, precisely because they promote an agenda that will benefit the super-wealthy at the expense of the poor. “Let them burn cake to heat their houses” might be their updated motto.
Exactly. Energy costs, and therefore basic commodities have gone up. Food, gasoline, heating and cooling my home have gone up, but not my salary. At least I still have my job. Many don’t.

Good thing I sold my house and moved to a smaller more efficient condo. I would not have been able to handle the costs of heating my old home where I raised my children.
 
Yes water and air are much better than 50 years ago.
Do you think regulation might have had something to do with that?
 
I doubt I can claim to be the most right wing person here. I am to the “left” of Mr. Mayo, depending on the issue. If it’s “leftist” to want to significantly improve the condition of the poorest of the poor; the ones who can’t help themselves, I suspect I’m a howling liberal compared to him.
What is your proposal to “significantly improve the condition of the poorest of the poor”?
 
Yes water and air are much better than 50 years ago.
Do you think regulation might have had something to do with that?
I don’t think anyone would question that it did. But neither does that mean all regulation is good just because it’s regulation. Nor does it mean nobody would ever do environmentally sound things just because they aren’t forced to do it. Manifestly, people do many environmentally beneficial things on their own.
 
I don’t think anyone would question that it did. But neither does that mean all regulation is good just because it’s regulation. Nor does it mean nobody would ever do environmentally sound things just because they aren’t forced to do it. Manifestly, people do many environmentally beneficial things on their own.
Usually, the most signifiant polluters will not stop if it is not cost effective.
Appropriate regulation is an art and a science.
 
What is your proposal to “significantly improve the condition of the poorest of the poor”?
I’m not a politician, so it is not my function or occupation to devise precise plans to incorporate into legislation. I could probably go on all day, but here are a few things.

I would most definitely do away with obamacare, because it adds people who have at least some resources to a Medicaid system that can barely take care of those who have none. Additionally, it threatens to impoverish additional numbers through job loss or truncation.

Short of that, one thing I would definitely do is alter the reimbursement balance between “well care” and “chronic care”. I realize the increased reimbursement for “well care” has some theoretical basis for it. If people don’t get sick in the first place, they won’t burden the system later, right? That’s the thought. But it’s really not empirically based, and at least one study recently appears to establish that 'well care" does not affect ultimate outcomes at all. On the other hand, reducing reimbursement for care of patients with chronic conditions is, to me, indefensible. Medical care ought to primarily be for the sick, not for the well. I would actually raise reimbursement for chronic care.

Unlikely as it will ever be to be adopted, I would “reinvent” institutional care for the terribly mentally ill, many of whom now roam the streets or otherwise live in appalling conditions. It’s expensive, particularly if done in a more “modern” way and with adequate staffing. But it’s also more humane. Obviously, this would require the cooperation of lawmakers and the judiciary, who seem to have a greater regard for “personal freedom” of such people than their otherwise applicable condition warrants.

I would provide grants to the kind of “orphanage” in which i once worked. There were a few true “orphans” there, but most were boys whose parents placed them there because they could not provide adequate supervision, nutrition, home situations or education for their children. Parents could visit their children there and the boys could have home visits. It was a Catholic institution, and worked very well. “Graduates” of the home could, and did, continue to live and work there while pursuing higher education, acting as supervisors and mentors to the younger boys. It closed when the State would no longer refer boys there due to the State’s incomprehensible worship of foster care and the bureaucracy’s desire to expand. Again, there would be a lot of opponents to this kind of arrangement. Interestingly, the one in which I worked was entirely supported by donated funds. But starting such institutions up again would probably require public funding.

I would most definitely provide grants for religious orders like this. www.sistersoflife.org. They work in slum neighborhoods to persuade pregnant women to avoid abortion, provide them housing and medical services if needed, and aid them in obtaining training and jobs.
They also provide counseling for post-abortion trauma to those who have had abortions.
The current administration would fight this tooth and nail, but we’re talking “should” here, aren’t we?

I would greatly raise the benefits under SSI; currently just over $600/month. I realize a patchwork of state and federal programs can and often do supplement that benefit in non-cash ways. But that’s a hit and miss proposition and adds to bureaucratic costs. I would also actually add a public or program advocate to SSI and SSD hearings. Nobody represents the public interest in those hearings. I strongly believe considerable money could be saved by those systems if that was done; money that could be provided to those in true need. I would give the public advocates access to investigative personnel and require review periodically that is more than just “paper review” as at present.

As an additional means of raising money, I would make SS retirement, Medicare and SSD “means tested”. There is no justification to paying SS to Warren Buffett while people with nothing have to make do on $600/month. None.

Also to raise money, I would prohibit any greater dipping than “double dipping” into any federal and/or state and/or local governmental pension or disability program or combination, and would provide generous “caps” even for “double dippers”. I have, in my time, met triple and quadruple dippers into the public trough who draw from unfunded programs and are wealthy besides.

I would encourage employment by a number of means. But this is already too long, so I’ll stop here.
 
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