Obama Announces New Climate Plan

[SamH]

How is making utility bills “skyrocket” (per Obama) going to help babies and the poor?

That warm feeling created by false satisfaction will have to suffice in the winter months.

 

[JamesCaruso]

I don’t think it matters whether we know his motives or not. He might not actually have any beyond a shallow self-aggrandizement.

Perhaps more important is the fact that he is surrounded by, has aided to power, and is aided to power by people of tremendously questionable goals and motivations. His group has come to utterly dominate his political party, so totally that now and then one sees them vote against the clear will of their constituents and against their own political interests. Can one really believe all Democrats are as totally supportive of the “Obama agenda” (whoever formulated it) as they vote? It’s hard to imagine that, because there have always been dissidents in political parties. And yet, they really do march like lemmings. I once held office in that party, and it was not that way before. That, in itself, is mightily troubling to me.

I’m not even sure that is important. What is important is that his policies are bankrupting the country. It’s already too late to get him out, unless of course some great scandal comes to light. The lockstep voting will not stop until the people “feel” the results of policies they once foolishly supported. With 50% of the electorate on welfare, it will take some serious pain to make that happen. Obamacare may bring us to that crunch point. But if not that, some other of his policies, such as you’ve mentioned, the deliberate escalation of energy prices, although I don’t think we’ll get that far before there is a repudiation of current policies. But I could be wrong-- I was shocked he won another term.

 

[lynnvinc]

How is making utility bills “skyrocket” (per Obama) going to help babies and the poor?

How is turning off lights not in use (& the many other cost-effective energy efficiency/conservation & alt energy measures) making utility bills skyrocket

The problem is we are too rich and profligate to even care about the money we are wasting willy-nilly while polluting the earth and harming others. it’s because we are so rich we don’t care about saving money or the welfare of others.

 

[Seachange]

GLOBAL WARMING: A Boon to Humans and Other Animals

around 6,000 years ago the earth sustained temperatures that were probably more than four degrees Fahrenheit hotter than those of the twentieth century, yet mankind flourished. The Sahara desert bloomed with plants, and water loving animals such as hippopotamuses wallowed in rivers and lakes. Dense forests carpeted Europe from the Alps to Scandinavia.
<…>
What is well known is that climate changes. The world has shifted from periods that were considerably warmer – during the Mesozoic era when the dinosaurs thrived the earth appears to have been about 18deg. Fahrenheit warmer than now – to spells that were substantially colder, such as the Ice Ages when huge glaciers submerged much of the Northern Hemisphere.[6] One paleoclimatologist estimated that, during the Precambrian period, the polar regions were about 36deg.F colder than they are in the contemporary world.[7] During the last interglacial, about 130,000 years ago or about when modern man was first exploring the globe, the average temperature in Europe was at least 2deg. to 5deg.F warmer than at present.[8] Hippopotamuses, lions, rhinoceroses and elephants roamed the English countryside. Areas watered today by the monsoons in Africa and east Asia enjoyed even more rainfall then. Indeed during the last 12,000 years, that is since the end of the last glacial period, the globe has alternated between times substantially warmer and epochs that were noticeably cooler.

An examination of the record of the last twelve millennia reveals that mankind prospered during the warm periods and suffered during the cold ones. Transitions from a warm to a cold period or vice-versa were difficult for people who lived in climates that were adversely affected yet benefited others who inhabited regions in which the weather improved. On average, however, humans gained during the centuries in which the earth enjoyed higher temperatures.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

GLOBAL WARMING: A Boon to Humans and Other Animals
Thomas Gale Moore
Senior Fellow
Hoover Institution

Founded in 1919 by Herbert Hoover, the Stanford University-based Hoover Institution is one of the oldest research institutes in the United States. Funded largely by right-wing foundations and corporate donors, Hoover has been a mainstay of the Republican Party for decades, serving as a virtual revolving door for high-level GOP figures and appartchiks, including many who served in the George W. Bush administration.

rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/Hoover_Institution

 

[Lapey]

GLOBAL WARMING: A Boon to Humans and Other Animals
Thomas Gale Moore
Senior Fellow
Hoover Institution

Founded in 1919 by Herbert Hoover, the Stanford University-based Hoover Institution is one of the oldest research institutes in the United States. Funded largely by right-wing foundations and corporate donors, Hoover has been a mainstay of the Republican Party for decades, serving as a virtual revolving door for high-level GOP figures and appartchiks, including many who served in the George W. Bush administration.

rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/Hoover_Institution

And every “think tank” or institution in favor of MMGW hoax can be traced to the left, in money and influence. What’s your point and why does this only matter on one side…hypocrites, I don’t trust you!

 

[Michael_Mayo]

And every “think tank” or institution in favor of MMGW hoax can be traced to the left, in money and influence. What’s your point and why does this only matter on one side…hypocrites, I don’t trust you!

You mean like Pope Benedict XVI?

catholicclimatecovenant.org/catholic-teachings/vatican-messages/

On Nov. 25, 2011, Pope Benedict XVI addressed delegates of 194 countries gathering in Durban, South Africa for the latest round of international climate change negotiations. He urged that they reach a strong global agreement to address the challenge of climate change: I hope that all members of the international community can agree on a responsible, credible and supportive response to this worrisome and complex phenomenon, keeping in mind the needs of the poorest populations and of future generations.

 

[styrgwillidar]

You mean like Pope Benedict XVI?

catholicclimatecovenant.org/catholic-teachings/vatican-messages/

On Nov. 25, 2011, Pope Benedict XVI addressed delegates of 194 countries gathering in Durban, South Africa for the latest round of international climate change negotiations. He urged that they reach a strong global agreement to address the challenge of climate change: I hope that all members of the international community can*** agree on a responsible, credible and supportive response to this worrisome and complex phenomenon, keeping in mind the needs of the poorest populations and of future generations***.

Well, sounds like he was saying we shouldn’t starve the poor in addressing a complex phenomona that is not truly understood. That whatever is done should be credible based on all the evidence and are actual knowledge vice theories not borne out by the data.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Well, sounds like he was saying we shouldn’t starve the poor in addressing a complex phenomona that is not truly understood. That whatever is done should be credible based on all the evidence and are actual knowledge vice theories not borne out by the data.

Yes, and he indicates a belief that there is something we CAN do to “address the challenge of climate change”.

BTW “starving the poor” is your haax and fear mongering tactic. We can address climate change without starving anyone.

 

[estesbob]

**Global warming believers are feeling the heat
**

*On Friday the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change delivers its latest verdict on the state of man-made global warming. Though the details are a secret, one thing is clear: the version of events you will see and hear in much of the media, especially from partis pris organisations like the BBC, will be the opposite of what the IPCC’s Fifth Assessment Report actually says.

Already we have had a taste of the nonsense to come: a pre-announcement to the effect that “climate scientists” are now “95 per cent certain” that humans are to blame for climate change; an evidence-free declaration by the economist who wrote the discredited Stern Report that the computer models cited by the IPCC “substantially underestimate” the scale of the problem; a statement by the panel’s chairman, Dr Rajendra Pachauri, that “the scientific evidence of… climate change has strengthened year after year”.
*

More at :
blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100238047/global-warming-believers-are-feeling-the-heat/

 

[Lapey]

You mean like Pope Benedict XVI?

catholicclimatecovenant.org/catholic-teachings/vatican-messages/

On Nov. 25, 2011, Pope Benedict XVI addressed delegates of 194 countries gathering in Durban, South Africa for the latest round of international climate change negotiations. He urged that they reach a strong global agreement to address the challenge of climate change: I hope that all members of the international community can agree on a responsible, credible and supportive response to this worrisome and complex phenomenon, keeping in mind the needs of the poorest populations and of future generations.

He was and is lead by scientists who are very questionable. And you know and should not even suggest that I would place the Church leaders in this, you place them there; I most certainly do not. You continue to add meaning and words to my statements, you do not want honest dialogue, you want and expect me to agree with you. If I do not it must be because I am partisan or political. I think I am done here, this will lead no where new. My offer of a new tone I see has been rejected.

 

[Lapey]

Yes, and he indicates a belief that there is something we CAN do to “address the challenge of climate change”.

BTW “starving the poor” is your haax and fear mongering tactic. We can address climate change without starving anyone.

Then Why are we starving people in the name of MMCC???

If you care to come with me I’ll gladly bring you to many places in this country where we are in fact starving people in the name of shutting down evil things like coal.

Your second comment is pure hypocrisy. What do you call all the dire predictions from teh last 30 years of mythical MMGW??? Hummm…pot meet kettle.

 

[JamesCaruso]

What more do we hope to accomplish in this thread?

I just noticed. Two more posts and we’re cooked anyway. Make them good.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

He was and is lead by scientists who are very questionable.

And you know and should not even suggest that I would place the Church leaders in this, you place them there; I most certainly do not.

You honestly do not see a contradiction in these two statements?

 

[JimG]

I wonder if anyone has determined the correct mean temperature for the globe. Which mean temperature must be maintained?

 

[Seachange]

[EPA admits new coal regulations won’t reduce global warming](EPA admits new coal regulations won’t reduce global warming)

An Environmental Protection Agency proposal designed to reduce CO2 emissions and reduce global warming will actually have no “notable CO2 emission changes.”
<…>

“The EPA does not anticipate that this proposed rule will result in notable CO2 emission changes, energy impacts, monetized benefits, costs, or economic impacts by 2022,” the EPA writes under the comments section of its proposal.
<…>
The EPA also admits that “the owners of newly built electric generating units will likely choose technologies that meet these standards even in the absence of this proposal due to existing economic conditions as normal business practice.”

So, Obama is going to kill an entire industry, throwing at least 750,000 people out of work, and it isn’t going to have any effect on CO2 emissions.

750,000 families to join the ranks of the poor, unemployed, homeless

for nothing

so who is starving the poor, throwing them out of work and of their homes

the only fear-mongering tactics are on the part of the MMGW proponents. They are the ones predicting widespread disaster if ‘something isn’t done right now’. and everything they back puts taxpayer dollars in their pockets. Why can’t people see this for the scam it is?

Obama donor gained nearly $1 billion in tax credits in Solyndra bankruptcy
Decrying the Hoover Institute does not change the historical evidence that warmer temperatures are better for mankind and that far from being a disaster are beneficial.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I wonder if anyone has determined the correct mean temperature for the globe. Which mean temperature must be maintained?

Good point.

Maybe the Central Bureau of Klimate Kontrol, run by Alexandre Goresky.

 

[Lapey]

You honestly do not see a contradiction in these two statements?

No I don’t because I know what I wrote and why I wrote it. Your job seems to be to re-write what I wrote and change the meaning. You do not have that right.

Again, you and lynnvinc continue to show a lack of respect for me and others who disagree with your opinions, this is very disappointing.

It’s time for me to back out of this conversation, you will never understand diversity, it surprises you anytime the diverse beliefs and ideas are made apparent to you. You criticize and demean and infer other meanings to our posts. This is disingenuous, to say the least.

I agree with a recent post, and I’ll repeat a post I made several pages back that this thread is dead and needs to be buried.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

No I don’t because I know what I wrote and why I wrote it. Your job seems to be to re-write what I wrote and change the meaning. You do not have that right.

I quoted you directly.

I can accept diversity but I do have a hard time accepting inconsistency and contradiction.

What you interpret as lack of respect is actually request for clarification.

Look back at what I wrote without the chip on your shoulder.

 

[Lapey]

I quoted you directly.

I can accept diversity but I do have a hard time accepting inconsistency and contradiction.

What you interpret as lack of respect is actually request for clarification.

Look back at what I wrote without the chip on your shoulder.

It’s not a chip, it is disgust and disapointment. I know what I mean by my words, you try to re-interpret them. I don’t care what you think I mean, I am told you what I meant. To say different is disrespectful and arrogant. You change the discussion from cordial to this when you speak to what my words mean and how I think and you have no ideas who I am or how I think. Again I mention, the attempt at a new tone is dead, you have put it out of it’s misery by your accusations.

You have tried to put me at odds with the Vatican and bishops several times. I am at odds with scientists with agendas. Please stop anytime you try to show me as disagreeing or being disobedient. If you think this means I must agree with scientists on MMGW then you do not understand Church teaching.