Obama backs mosque near ground zero

  • Thread starter Thread starter Musicadmirer
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I am quite certain that they were not the ones who started the media storm. Nor have I heard anything from the Muslim community which sounded incendiary. Quite the opposite, I think it is clear they are teaching a valuable lesson.
They are building a site of worship dedicated to a faith that was used by extremeists to murder people. The fact that their building is causing a very vocal outcry against it is inciting more hostility and resentment.

As Americans they are indeed fighting a valuable battle for freedom of religion.

As Muslims, they are violating the command to keep the peace by being purposefully insensitive.

It’s a double edged sword, and why I am so torn on the issue.
 
not sure i understand the connection between churches and the oklahoma city bombing?
:confused:
I suppose it is an unclear analogy as McVeigh’s views on religion could probably best be described as “confused.” Perhaps a better analogy would be churches near Centennial Olympic Park.
 
They are building a site of worship dedicated to a faith that was used by extremeists to murder people. The fact that their building is causing a very vocal outcry against it is inciting more hostility and resentment.
No, the people raising the outcry are inciting hostility and resentment.

Someone earlier in the thread asked:
Who is making that argument, that it shouldn’t be built because they don’t like the religion?
It sounds to me like you are claiming that you don’t like the religion. If you are, then DOShea, here is a person making that argument. If you are not, then the religion of the centre ought to be immaterial. Would you oppose a Catholic centre, or a Jewish centre?
 
I suppose it is an unclear analogy as McVeigh’s views on religion could probably best be described as “confused.” Perhaps a better analogy would be churches near Centennial Olympic Park.
Or building a branch of Westboro Baptist Church near the site where that homosexual boy was beaten to death would be accurate. Westboro Baptist does not support violence from one human on another, but believes in God’s justice that is done through acts such as that. Westboro would never assault someone, nor would they support someone assaulting another. But for them, with their “God Hates Fags” signs would be commiting a horrific act of insensitivity to build there, and one would rightly question their motives.

Does this mean we can legally stop them? No. But people should be encouraged to speak out against such insensitvity.
 
No, the people raising the outcry are inciting hostility and resentment.
Not all acts of hostility and resentment are words. It may not be their intention, but this is exactly what they are doing by commiting such an insensitive act. How are they showing that they cherish peace and harmoney, when they fight to do something that is offensive to so many people? Should those people not be offended? sure. It doesn’t change the fact that they are though, and the fact that they are fighting back just as hard is hardly convincing those around them that they love peace.

It’s a hard issue. Sometimes the most charitable thing to do is respect the fact that others don’t like you. We as christians are called to do this ALL. THE. TIME. And of course, anyone who is married knows that the best way not to incite hostility (fights) is to just keep your mouth shut - even when you know you’re right. 😉
 
Not all acts of hostility and resentment are words. It may not be their intention, but this is exactly what they are doing by commiting such an insensitive act. How are they showing that they cherish peace and harmoney, when they fight to do something that is offensive to so many people?
Lets say that I am a Muslim. I think to myself: What can I do to to improve understanding after and offer an apology for the terrorist attacks? Aha! I should build an Islamic centre where people can come and learn that Islam strongly condemns these attacks, and is dedicated to peace [improved understanding.] Not only that, it will improve the community by providing recreational facilities open to the public! [offer condolences] However, once I get to work enacting this plan, I am met with opposition. Why?

“Because it is insensitive”

Why is it insensitive?

“Because it was YOUR religion that inspired the terrorist attacks”

No! The reason I wanted to build the centre was to show everyone that the terrorists do not represent Islam!

“We don’t care what you have to say, we are going to assume you are being purposefully insensitive and are lying about your real intentions”

How should I, as a Muslim respond to this? It seems to me that I should be deeply offended by the allegations that, as a Muslim, I am somehow deviously plotting to offend, gloat, harbour terrorists, or do anything other than my stated intentions.

The Muslims are not “fighting back” they are defending themselves against overt anti-Islamic sentiment.
 
I don’t think so. There is no reason to oppose the mosque, other than anti-Muslim sentiment.

I am glad that the President is willing to stand up for religious freedom, when so many people seem to be running in fear of it. I think this shows leadership, something which has been sorely lacking among US politicians.
*Are you glad when he manifests anti pro-live tendencies? Do you applaud him for being anti-Catholic?

:nope:*
 
Something is odd about the mosque …

They are insisting on building it close to ground zero

They are planning on their grand opening being on 9/11/2010 (or is it ground breaking?)

They were offered by the Gov of NY free land elsewhere and they turned it down.

All this even after knowing that the majority of Americans think it is insensitive of them.

Something is odd about this mosque…
 
*Are you glad when he manifests anti pro-live tendencies? Do you applaud him for being anti-Catholic?

:nope:*
Do you think a Catholic theocracy would be a better form of government for the US?
 
Something is odd about the mosque …

They are insisting on building it close to ground zero

They are planning on their grand opening being on 9/11/2010 (or is it ground breaking?)

They were offered by the Gov of NY free land elsewhere and they turned it down.

All this even after knowing that the majority of Americans think it is insensitive of them.

Something is odd about this mosque…
They are insisting on building it where they own land and that happens to be close to ground zero. Getting any land in Manhattan is very difficult, and the group admits that they are trying to encourage civil discourse.

The date for the groundbreaking seems to be a lie. I have found places that claim it, but none of them are reliable sources nor do they cite their information. The current schedule says only late 2010, and they can’t make any real decisions until the lawsuit about the landmark status of the building goes through.

The governor has not actually offered any free land yet, but merely discussed the idea publicly (and only 4 days ago). They don’t actually have a site in mind, and the governor office has also admitted that the state can’t just give away land for free to a religious organization like that. The owners of the land the mosque is intended to go on have not yet made any comments on the matter.

nypost.com/p/news/local/gov_offers_land_for_mosque_if_it_YKrG1nuNaSdMbNuoZ7IabM
 
Lets say that I am a Muslim. I think to myself: What can I do to to improve understanding after and offer an apology for the terrorist attacks? Aha! I should build an Islamic centre where people can come and learn that Islam strongly condemns these attacks, and is dedicated to peace [improved understanding.] Not only that, it will improve the community by providing recreational facilities open to the public! [offer condolences] However, once I get to work enacting this plan, I am met with opposition. Why?

“Because it is insensitive”

Why is it insensitive?

“Because it was YOUR religion that inspired the terrorist attacks”

No! The reason I wanted to build the centre was to show everyone that the terrorists do not represent Islam!

“We don’t care what you have to say, we are going to assume you are being purposefully insensitive and are lying about your real intentions”

How should I, as a Muslim respond to this? It seems to me that I should be deeply offended by the allegations that, as a Muslim, I am somehow deviously plotting to offend, gloat, harbour terrorists, or do anything other than my stated intentions.

The Muslims are not “fighting back” they are defending themselves against overt anti-Islamic sentiment.
I see, let’s ignore the fact that its patron has connections to a known terrorist group. It also appears that he is raising funds for the mosque on the US taxpayers dime, but never mind that. This mosque should never be built. I would support Congress using the powers of eminent domain to build a national memorial on the site.

Finally, let me say that I have pondered the following questions for quite some time:

Which group is the Islamic radicals, the moderates or the hardliners?

Which group is the Islamic traditionalists, the moderates or the hardliners?

Before we assume this mosque is built in good faith we might benefit from examining history first.
 
Lets say that I am a Muslim. I think to myself: What can I do to to improve understanding after and offer an apology for the terrorist attacks? Aha! I should build an Islamic centre where people can come and learn that Islam strongly condemns these attacks, and is dedicated to peace [improved understanding.] Not only that, it will improve the community by providing recreational facilities open to the public! [offer condolences] However, once I get to work enacting this plan, I am met with opposition. Why?

“Because it is insensitive”

Why is it insensitive?

“Because it was YOUR religion that inspired the terrorist attacks”

No! The reason I wanted to build the centre was to show everyone that the terrorists do not represent Islam!

“We don’t care what you have to say, we are going to assume you are being purposefully insensitive and are lying about your real intentions”

How should I, as a Muslim respond to this? It seems to me that I should be deeply offended by the allegations that, as a Muslim, I am somehow deviously plotting to offend, gloat, harbour terrorists, or do anything other than my stated intentions.

The Muslims are not “fighting back” they are defending themselves against overt anti-Islamic sentiment.
If you listen to conservatives much, you might actually hear something the liberals wont tell you.

Did you watch Juan Williams when he filled in for O’Reilly the other night?

To me, it sounds as though conservatives might be a little more accepting if the Imam wasn’t so shady about the whole thing.

And if I’m not mistaken, there have been Muslims from New York come out against this mosque.

And I’m no expert, but someone made a comment that the first thing Muslims did when they conquered lands, historically speaking, was to build a mosque.

If they want to build the mosque, then they need to be a bit understanding that people might have an issue with this. They need to answer those questions and be open and honest with the American people. What is it up to now, over 60% oppose it? That’s a huge chunk of the population.
 
Something is odd about the mosque …

They are insisting on building it close to ground zero
Well, if you consider within two blocks of a spot in downtown Manhattan to be close.

I admit, I have never been to New York, but I have spent quite a bit of time in Chicago. And I can say that there is a lot of real estate within two blocks of State and Randolph.
They are planning on their grand opening being on 9/11/2010 (or is it ground breaking?)
If they are, it would be a poor choice. But are they? According to the Aug 2, 2010 New York Daily News, “…demolition and subsequent construction can start when the developers are ready.”
nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/08/02/2010-08-02_landmark_vote_to_ok_mosque_in_wtc_area.html
They were offered by the Gov of NY free land elsewhere and they turned it down.
Well, sure. A location in downtown Manhattan versus the vague promise of a location somewhere, who knows where.
All this even after knowing that the majority of Americans think it is insensitive of them.

Something is odd about this mosque…
I think the same could be said about the opposition to this mosque. There simply is no reason to oppose it, other than a dislike of Islam or Muslims. And such a dislike/fear/hate is not rationally justifiable.
 
I have to agree here. Is it the right of the muslims to build a mosque there? It sure is - and their rights should be defended. As to whether or not they should build it, that’s a different issue. It shows a great sense of insensitivity to what happened there, especially with the name they chose (suggests conquered land).

Frankly, I fight fire with fire on this issue. Muslims are told in the Quaran not to incite scandal or fan the flames of hostility. In this case, they are doing exactly that. They are picking a site that muslim extremists murdered more than 3,000 Americans, to build a site of muslim worship. It just seems tacky.

Finally, if it were put to popular vote, I would say that I would vote that they be allowed to build there. Freedom of religion is not to be restricted. However, I am deeply embarassed for them for their lack of sensitivity. It certainly does nothing to alleviate the discord towards Muslims in this country (not that that I am defending hate-mongers against the muslim faith, just that they really aren’t doing anything to ease tension in this move).
 
If you listen to conservatives much, you might actually hear something the liberals wont tell you.
Its true that standards of intellectual rigour vary across ideological lines.
To me, it sounds as though conservatives might be a little more accepting if the Imam wasn’t so shady about the whole thing.

And if I’m not mistaken, there have been Muslims from New York come out against this mosque.
“Shady” sounds appropriately vague and incriminating for an accusation with no real evidence.
Are you referring to this?
mediamatters.org/blog/201007260003
And I’m no expert, but someone made a comment that the first thing Muslims did when they conquered lands, historically speaking, was to build a mosque.

If they want to build the mosque, then they need to be a bit understanding that people might have an issue with this. They need to answer those questions and be open and honest with the American people. What is it up to now, over 60% oppose it? That’s a huge chunk of the population.
The only reason people would take issue with this is if they were unreasonably suspicious of Muslim Americans or openly discriminatory. If 60% of the population was racist against blacks would we accuse blacks of being insensitive for wanting to build a black cultural centre?

Please name one specific reason you have for suspecting the centre is for any purpose other than being an educational cultural/community centre.
 
I think the same could be said about the opposition to this mosque. There simply is no reason to oppose it, other than a dislike of Islam or Muslims. And such a dislike/fear/hate is not rationally justifiable.
there is nothing wrong about having serious reservations about this mosque being built near ground zero. it’s not a good location for it. not that i’m against the building of the mosque, just not there. they plan to open it on 9-11 2011.

personally, i would be happy if all the muslims in our country, and leftist, moved to iran. doesn’t mean i hate them as people, i just hate their ideas and how they think insofar as it opposes the natural law. i wouldn’t miss them at all.
 
I’m starting to think this guy ***wants ***the majority of America to hate him, either that or he is the most clueless person on the planet. He consistantly takes the wrong side of a position, Health Care, the Arizona Immigration Law, and on and on, and now this.
It could be true but I’m sure that the flip side of this is more likely; he hates us.
 
I’m tired of Obama, I think the Muslims were insensitive to want to build a Mosque near ground zero.

Having said that, he did have a point about freedom of religion for all faiths in America.
 
I’m tired of Obama, I think the Muslims were insensitive to want to build a Mosque near ground zero.

Having said that, he did have a point about freedom of religion for all faiths in America.
Mosques are being built everywhere without any objections. Muslims do have freedom of religion.

It is not about freedom of religion, but about location.

But this is what Americans voted for when they elected Obama and New Yorkers voted for when they elected Bloomberg.

The families of the victims of 9/11 and everyone else hurt by this insensitivity will just have to suck it up then. This is very much the will of an America that votes for these kind of people.
 
If a person is working in a job they really never did want, and really do hate, than often they will intentionally do their emplyment tasks in a way that they subconciously know will lead to their termination.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top