Obama backs mosque near ground zero

[John_Pascendi]

I hope they have settled it. But certainly it has been a national issue for several weeks now. I guess I am not surprised (although I didn’t expect it) for the president to comment on the situation.

I don’t think this has anything to do with politics. It concerns opposing bigotry. There is absolutely no reason to oppose a mosque being built two blocks from Ground Zero other than an unreasoning hatred of Muslims.

…“unreasoning hatred of Muslims”…maybe I missed something here,Did not the founder of this ‘religion’ marry a 9 year old girl by the name of Asia!!! The Founder of Christianity in contrast advised “He who would harm these little ones (children) may a millstone be tied around his neck and may he be tossed into the nearest stream”…In communist china ,Catholics must worship in secret for fear of being liquidated by the careing tolerant government…and yet here in the good ole US of A…last Christmas,the holiday tree in the white house was decorated in many ways,and one decoration was a picture of Mao…a loveable righteous man who was responsible for the murder of some 65 million Chinese…what a caring sensitve man in the peoples house we have here…lets all listen to him and put that center where-ever our leaders want.

 

[JackVk]

…“unreasoning hatred of Muslims”…maybe I missed something here,Did not the founder of this ‘religion’ marry a 9 year old girl by the name of Asia!!! The Founder of Christianity in contrast advised “He who would harm these little ones (children) may a millstone be tied around his neck and may he be tossed into the nearest stream”…In communist china ,Catholics must worship in secret for fear of being liquidated by the careing tolerant government…and yet here in the good ole US of A…last Christmas,the holiday tree in the white house was decorated in many ways,and one decoration was a picture of Mao…a loveable righteous man who was responsible for the murder of some 65 million Chinese…what a caring sensitve man in the peoples house we have here…lets all listen to him and put that center where-ever our leaders want.

Correction: Mao killed 70 million people.

 

[Mr_Skeptic]

Mr Skeptic;6975539:

Say what??
/
I never said you are “over-justifying”. I said people like you scare the hell out of me because you can justify anything under the sun. On the other hand, I’ve given several lines of reason, logic, and plain old common sense. So, don’t even try it with your “intellectual complacency” horse hockey.

Spare us from all the disingenuous courtroom tactics and legalistic maneuvers. Please.

Where have you been?

Nice to meet you, too.

The words of the Imam after 9/11 are almost the same as the words in the official Report on 9/11 and they are the words used by Glenn Beck with his blackboard, spelling out the very same words.

So, the 9/11 report concludes that America was “an accessory” to 9/11, and that Osama Bin Laden was “made in America”? I didn’t see that in the report. Please provide the direct citations. Thanks.

Why did George Bush rely on this Imam?

Religion? How the hell do I know? Ask him. He made, in my opinion, a lot of stupid moves as president.

why has the state dept and the Pentagon counted on him for consultation?

The bigger question for me is - why the hell is the State Department, (our tax dollars footing this bill), paying for his 15 day trip to the Middle East? Doesn’t that bother you in the least? When was the last time US tax payers paid for a Catholic venture? Ever heard of the Constitution and the separation of church and state? This is a dangerous road we’re going down.

Muslims are already praying regularly near ground zero in that old delapidated bldg.

Where are you getting this? Citations, please.

I know that there already is an existing mosque which is four blocks away. I know that there are over a hundred mosques in New York right now. And, I know that there isn’t a major, Muslim population at Ground Zero … well, at least not right now. I’m sure that will change if the Ground Zero Islamic Victory Center occurs.

ETA - Don’t let political correctness and the insidious lie of “multiculturalism” turn your brains to mush.

.

 

[TheTrueCentrist]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli#Article_11

A perspective on Islam from the founding fathers.

 

[TheTrueCentrist]

Nice to meet you, too.

So, the 9/11 report concludes that America was “an accessory” to 9/11, and that Osama Bin Laden was “made in America”? I didn’t see that in the report. Please provide the direct citations. Thanks.

I always thought that was pretty clear. The terrorists all cited political motivations.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks

The bigger question for me is - why the hell is the State Department, (our tax dollars footing this bill), paying for his 15 day trip to the Middle East? Doesn’t that bother you in the least? When was the last time US tax payers paid for a Catholic venture? Ever heard of the Constitution and the separation of church and state? This is a dangerous road we’re going down.

Because he is an effective diplomat and moderate who can speak effectively to both the Muslim countries and the west.

ETA - Don’t let political correctness and the insidious lie of “multiculturalism” turn your brains to mush.

An argument is not automatically wrong because its conclusions are politically correct or multicultural.

 

[4elise]

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1003399.htm
*
“The neophytes in society are always on the outside,” Gillis said. “With Catholics, people feared they would have loyalty to a foreign power, the Holy See.” With Muslims, he added, people fear a possible connection to an Islamic government or to a terrorist organization.

At an impromptu news conference Aug. 18, New York Archbishop Timothy M. Dolan noted that “as Catholics, we ourselves are somewhat touchy about this issue because in the past we have been discriminated against.” He said he would be happy to participate in efforts to negotiate a compromise over the Manhattan mosque as part of “a very civil, rational, loving, respectful discussion.”*

How quickly we forget - now part of the accepted society we Catholics are happy to join the lot in mistrust. I think we are better than that as Catholics and as Americans.

 

[4elise]

I always thought that was pretty clear. The terrorists all cited political motivations.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks

Because he is an effective diplomat and moderate who can speak effectively to both the Muslim countries and the west.

An argument is not automatically wrong because its conclusions are politically correct or multicultural.

Don’t you think that the extremists are THRILLED by this controversy?
Don’t you think that the extremists can USE this controversy to radicalize more moderate Muslims?
Don’t you think this controversy actually makes us less safe?
I am embarrassed by the Catholics who object - and embarrassed by the Americans who object - but it is of course their right to do so - IMHO it is neither charitable nor patriotic.

Those who are in the public arena (24 hour news / pundints) have a greater responsibility to speak in a less inflamitory way - yet there is nothing they enjoy more than throwing fuel on the fire - comparing Muslims to Nazis - sell books, get votes, compromise our core Catholic and American values -

 

[Vezelay]

Nice to meet you, too.

So, the 9/11 report concludes that America was “an accessory” to 9/11, and that Osama Bin Laden was “made in America”? I didn’t see that in the report. Please provide the direct citations. Thanks.

No, it reports just what Imam Rauf said that the US certainly did not deserve what happened but that several policies of the US have engendered in the Muslim world terrible hatred. Glenn Beck lists on his black board all the US policies he thinks let terrorists to do this awful deed.

Religion? How the hell do I know? Ask him. He made, in my opinion, a lot of stupid moves as president.

But reaching out to the Muslim world certainly was not one of his bad moves. Ar

The bigger question for me is - why the hell is the State Department, (our tax dollars footing this bill), paying for his 15 day trip to the Middle East? Doesn’t that bother you in the least? When was the last time US tax payers paid for a Catholic venture? Ever heard of the Constitution and the separation of church and state? This is a dangerous road we’re going down.

Are there Catholic countries out there who hate us??? I’m not aware of any. This outreach to the Muslim world (l.5 billion people) is not the establishment of a religion, it is a diplomatic overture to help the cause of world peace. Are you against that?

Where are you getting this? Citations, please.

I know that there already is an existing mosque which is four blocks away. I know that there are over a hundred mosques in New York right now. And, I know that there isn’t a major, Muslim population at Ground Zero … well, at least not right now. I’m sure that will change if the Ground Zero Islamic Victory Center occurs.

That fact Muslims have been praying in the old Burlington Coat factory for more than a year has appeared in all papers and TV coverage. Check Time magazine. They have a video on the internet showing them praying and they interview men and women who frequent the bldg, Park51. By the way, there are Christians and Jews on the board of the Islamic Center. Check it out.

ETA - Don’t let political correctness and the insidious lie of “multiculturalism” turn your brains to mush.

Don’t know what you see as “political correctness.” Is refraining from referring to African Americans as niggers and Jews as kykes and Italians as wops or guinis and Poles as pollacks “political correctness?” Where I was raised refraining from such was considered decent behavior. I wish I were seeing more decent behavior regarding our Muslim brothers and sisters.

.

Please read the above comments and remember that back in Dec 2009 when the story of the proposed islamic center appeared on the front page of the NYTimes it was not received negatively. Laura Ingraham interviewed the Iman’s wife on her show and said that the proposed center sounded like a great idea that would undoubtedly get a lot of support. Then, a few weeks later, some maniacs decided they didn’t like the idea and went on the attack. S i g h so much hatred out there. If only everyone thought like Laura Ingraham

 

[Phil_Stone]

As a former Con Law instructor, and sworn to defend the Constitution as President, he had no choice but to respect the decision of the local bodies who overwealmingly supported the plan, the First Amendment rights of the American Muslims involved and the people who own the land.

I wouldn’t want Newt or Fox to come to my town and over-rule a local decison about a local matter, and the idea that they think the opinions of a majority of the people has relevance to a First Amendment question is ridiculous. This is the Schivao case all over again, and the Republicans lost votes on it.

Ironically, the Republicans passed a Federal law to make it harder for local governments to arbitrarily block religious construction on pre-text. But perhaps they were only thinking about Christian churches.

I wonder how it affects the opinion of people that the building would be among the tallest in most states. I think for people who dont live in big cities and have never been to New York, it is easy to have a distorted picture of how big the building is, how close it is to the Towers site, and how prominent it is in the neighborhood. 2 blocks in Tallahasee or Oshkosh is much closer than 2 blocks in New York. Perhaps that is why Manhattenites are OK with the project, even if Sarah Palin is not.

 

[Mr_Skeptic]

I always thought that was pretty clear. The terrorists all cited political motivations.

And, I thought it was clear that true Islam is an ideology, where religion, government and culture are all intertwined, and, between the Quran and the Hadith, every tiny aspect of one’s personal life is ruled.

Have they changed all that recently? Maybe I missed it.

 

[Mr_Skeptic]

Regarding why US tax dollars are being spent on a religious venture …

Because he is an effective diplomat and moderate who can speak effectively to both the Muslim countries and the west.

So, you’re okay with US tax dollars being spent on religious endeavors??? When would you like the First Amendment abolished, this year or next?

 

[TheTrueCentrist]

And, I thought it was clear that true Islam is an ideology, where religion, government and culture are all intertwined, and, between the Quran and the Hadith, every tiny aspect of one’s personal life is ruled.

Have they changed all that recently? Maybe I missed it.

Regarding why US tax dollars are being spent on a religious venture … So, you’re okay with US tax dollars being spent on religious endeavors??? When would you like the First Amendment abolished, this year or next?

Well since Islam (according to you) is not merely religious, but also governmental, and since the tax dollars (according to you) were spent on a Muslim endeavour, does it not reasonably follow that the money could have, in fact, been spent on the governmental facet of Islam?

 

[Mike5575]

I’m all for freedom of religion, but would their rights really be infringed if we simply moved it to another location? Frankly, I am more concerned with the fact that many Muslims around the world will see this as a victory over the Infidels of the West.

 

[estesbob]

As a former Con Law instructor, and sworn to defend the Constitution as President, he had no choice but to respect the decision of the local bodies who overwealmingly supported the plan, the First Amendment rights of the American Muslims involved and the people who own the land.

I wouldn’t want Newt or Fox to come to my town and over-rule a local decison about a local matter, and the idea that they think the opinions of a majority of the people has relevance to a First Amendment question is ridiculous. This is the Schivao case all over again, and the Republicans lost votes on it.

Ironically, the Republicans passed a Federal law to make it harder for local governments to arbitrarily block religious construction on pre-text. But perhaps they were only thinking about Christian churches.

I wonder how it affects the opinion of people that the building would be among the tallest in most states. I think for people who dont live in big cities and have never been to New York, it is easy to have a distorted picture of how big the building is, how close it is to the Towers site, and how prominent it is in the neighborhood. 2 blocks in Tallahasee or Oshkosh is much closer than 2 blocks in New York. Perhaps that is why Manhattenites are OK with the project, even if Sarah Palin is not.

Have you run out of straw yet?

One wonders how you sleep at night what with worrying about whether palin or Gingrich are hiding under your bed…

 

[4elise]

I’m all for freedom of religion, but would their rights really be infringed if we simply moved it to another location? Frankly, I am more concerned with the fact that many Muslims around the world will see this as a victory over the Infidels of the West.

I think* - if you really think about it -* those who want to stir hatred of the US - and who ultimately want to harm us are the ones rejoicing over the obstruction to this Mosque.

The Muslims who are happy that it will be constructed see it as a sign that the United States is what we say we are - a country where people are free to practice their faith.

Trying to obstruct this - we are becoming what the radicals say we are, anti-Muslim… **then they in fact win, **and can draw more to their fight - because we become something hateful.

The argument about another location - is nonsense - because Mosque construction is being objected to in WI, CA, TENN, ?? It is anti-Muslim / and making false links between peace loving Muslims with the radicals who brought the attacks on 9-11 only hurts us because we abandon our values as Americans.

 

[Via_Dolorosa]

Don’t you think that the extremists are THRILLED by this controversy?
Don’t you think that the extremists can USE this controversy to radicalize more moderate Muslims?
Don’t you think this controversy actually makes us less safe?
I am embarrassed by the Catholics who object - and embarrassed by the Americans who object - but it is of course their right to do so - IMHO it is neither charitable nor patriotic.

Those who are in the public arena (24 hour news / pundints) have a greater responsibility to speak in a less inflamitory way - yet there is nothing they enjoy more than throwing fuel on the fire - comparing Muslims to Nazis - sell books, get votes, compromise our core Catholic and American values -

Frank Rich gives an overview of the situation. This mosque controversy is a made up controversy (as usual) If you are interested, check out the links he provides.

nytimes.com/2010/08/22/opinion/22rich.html?_r=1

 

[seekerz]

Frank Rich gives an overview of the situation. This mosque controversy is a made up controversy (as usual) If you are interested, check out the links he provides.

nytimes.com/2010/08/22/opinion/22rich.html?_r=1

Of course it’s a made-up controversy, one just has to look at the actual sequence of events and who’s shouting the loudest to come to that conclusion. I say this with all due respect to the Twin Tower survivors/families. Made up controversies (much like the birther issue, the Obama’s-a-Muslim issue, and others) tend to distract people from much more pressing issues and they’re not bad for TV ratings or for fundraising either.

 

[seekerz]

This may be worthy of its own thread, but an increasing number of New York construction workers are vowing that they will not work on a Park 51 mosque/Muslim community center.

More here: aolnews.com/nation/article/construction-workers-voice-opposition-to-ground-zero-mosque/19602461

DaveBj

And that is their right. That’s their way of making their statement. Similarly, the owners have a right to seek construction workers elsewhere and those workers have a right to accept those jobs if they so desire. Everyone exersices his or her right…that’s the way it’s supposed to work.

 

[4elise]

Frank Rich gives an overview of the situation. This mosque controversy is a made up controversy (as usual) If you are interested, check out the links he provides.

nytimes.com/2010/08/22/opinion/22rich.html?_r=1

great article…

 

[4elise]

Of course it’s a made-up controversy, one just has to look at the actual sequence of events and who’s shouting the loudest to come to that conclusion. I say this with all due respect to the Twin Tower survivors/families. Made up controversies (much like the birther issue, the Obama’s-a-Muslim issue, and others) tend to distract people from much more pressing issues and they’re not bad for TV ratings or for fundraising either.