Obama backs mosque near ground zero

[John_Pascendi]

I’m glad he did it, and it makes me think better of him. It is easy to stand up for politically popular opinions, but when you are already be called a “secret muslim” and the majority of the country opposes the mosque standing up for basic American principles or religious freedom and rights regarding privately owned property isn’t so easy. Even if you don’t like the man or what he is supporting you have to give him credit for sticking to his principles.

Well principles is it? On thursday,the 26th …many of us will be demonstrating in honor of Mother Teresa ,a wonderful Catholic nun who worked in a foreign nation caring for non-christians.A tall building with short minded owners refuse to honor this humble women as they honored Gays etc.with a special lighting display. I expect to see the many supporters of Obama and the mosque folk…who have preached 'freedom of worship and all who disagree with us are bigots etc etc.out their with me and the others. worldnetdaily.com is headlining the news that a huge stockholder of fox news is behind the funding of this mosque…so ends the nonsense that Murdoch is right wing…he never was…people should read Hunters book on Brainwashing. I met Mr.Hunter when he held a seminar on this subject at fort Bragg.this was a study of how China brainwashed many of our buddies in Korea to desert their beloved nation. Lets all show support for this great warmhearted lady. I am sure the mosque supporters on this topic will be alongside me and the thousands of others …( I also believe in the tooth fairy)…

 

[Pitcharan]

Well principles is it? On thursday,the 26th …many of us will be demonstrating in honor of Mother Teresa ,a wonderful Catholic nun who worked in a foreign nation caring for non-christians… Lets all show support for this great warmhearted lady. I am sure the mosque supporters on this topic will be alongside me and the thousands of others …( I also believe in the tooth fairy)…

My prayers and best wishes are with you and also that of my family.

 

[scipio337]

Respectfully, I believe that by opposing the construction of the mosque 2 blocks from ground zero in an old retail store we are

(1) making a false connection between all Muslims and terrorists.
(2) feeding an anti-Muslim sentiment in this country that can only create additional divisions and create opportunities for radicalization of more moderate Muslims
(3) allowing pundants to use this issue as a distraction from more important issues
(4) stepping away from our core values of religious freedom as Americans

If it were to be found that this center breaks laws then by all means shut it down, as they did in Germany. You say* “As long as adherents of Islam who choose to live here honor our traditions and common good as the founding fathers envisioned for this great country, the door is and should remain open to them and their places of worship.”* and that is EXACTLY the point -

This is exactly why we need to be supportive of their right to build on property they own, where zoning laws allow - without regard to their religion - and perhaps especially because of their religion - speaking out for them demonstrates to the world that we ‘walk the walk’ - we act on our values - IMHO it is very important.

So is everyone here aware of the imam’s ties to the Islamic Society of North America and the International Institute of Islamic Thought, both unindicted co-conspirators (along with CAIR) in funding terrorism in the Holy Land Foundation trial? His comments regarding the US being an “assesory” to the 9/11 attacks, his “More Muslim blood on the US’ hands comments”, and they still think this is a witch-hunt to ostracize Muslims?

If you still have this same insular view after close to 60 pages, I’m not sure what would convince you otherwise.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

In response to the critiques that project dire future events, such as nuclear terrorist attacks, etc as being farfetched and extreme: how many people, on September 10, 2001, were predicting that Muslim terrorists would hijack four airliners and suicide those airplanes into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon and other targets, as yet not fully determined. [The Pentagon plane may have been aimed at the White House and the Pennsylvania plane may have been intended for the Capitol Building.]

How many people predicted the anthrax attacks [never satisfactorily “solved”] or the D.C. sniper attacks or the Fort Hood massacre or the shoe bomber or the Detroit airliner panty bomber or the many other thwarted attacks or the London or Madrid subway suicide bombings?

Or the Saudi barracks attack or the U.S. embassy bombings or the sinking of the U.S.S. Cole?

What makes other future attacks so far-fetched?

 

[4elise]

If Muslims allow you to build Churches in their countries, then you should allow them too.
But if they forbid you, then why shouldn’t you do the same with them?

Because we are America - built on freedom of religion.

 

[4elise]

Are you suggesting that all christians should reject and abandon what our Lord taught :Do as you would like to be done by and replace it with a man-made perversion Do to others exactly what they they do to you? This is how the hard hearted people of OT times perverted God’s law: God’s “love command”: ’Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19 :18), was compromised to the extent of institutionalising hatred and revenge by hard hearted people who had it written down: If anyone injures his neighbor, whatever he has done must be done to him: fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth. As he has injured the other, so he is to be injured. (Lev 24:19-20).

Our Lord suffered and died for the cause of truth and salvation of mankind; do you want to reverse His Love command and corrupt Christendom?

Well said. The example of Catholic Christians choosing to love should be what draws others - hate repels and breeds hate.

 

[4elise]

The community center is not ON ground zero. It is near ground zero in an old Burlington Coat Factory. It is a community center that has a mosque chaptel ( for lack of a better word) in it. Just like the Pentagon has one in it.
When first proposed no one complanined. Some of the biggest neah sayers where all for it. What changed? I say someone turned on the hate machine and once again made an issue where previously there was none.

Exactly - the coat factory in the same neighborhood where there are 'gentleman’s clubs - off track betting - fast food - and many who complain now in the press were originally all for the Muslim center, but recognizing the political opportunity jump on the band wagon and wave hate flags - IMHO we Catholics should be speaking the loudest in support for so many reasons.

 

[4elise]

Well principles is it?

Freedom of religion

On thursday,the 26th …many of us will be demonstrating in honor of Mother Teresa ,a wonderful Catholic nun who worked in a foreign nation caring for non-christians.A tall building with short minded owners refuse to honor this humble women as they honored Gays etc.with a special lighting display. I expect to see the many supporters of Obama and the mosque folk…who have preached 'freedom of worship and all who disagree with us are bigots etc etc.out their with me and the others. worldnetdaily.com is headlining the news that a huge stockholder of fox news is behind the funding of this mosque…so ends the nonsense that Murdoch is right wing…he never was…people should read Hunters book on Brainwashing. I met Mr.Hunter when he held a seminar on this subject at fort Bragg.this was a study of how China brainwashed many of our buddies in Korea to desert their beloved nation. Lets all show support for this great warmhearted lady. I am sure the mosque supporters on this topic will be alongside me and the thousands of others …( I also believe in the tooth fairy)…

Please open a thread about this protest about honoring Mother Teresa that includes the details - I know I am inspired by her life and believe she should be honored. I believe you are talking about the Empire State Building (not a state or federal building) nydailynews.com/blogs/dailypolitics/2010/08/empire-state-building-lighting.html - one owned by (from what I can find) a general partnership of 2500 investors headed by Peter L. Malkin - I would be happy to send a letter, make a call to ask that they consider honoring Mother Teresa -

Not sure why you would think that supporting the right of Muslims to build a cultural center 2 blocks from the site of the world trade centers would make one uninterested in asking Peter Malkin to honor Mother Teresa?

 

[4elise]

So is everyone here aware of the imam’s ties to the Islamic Society of North America and the International Institute of Islamic Thought, both unindicted co-conspirators (along with CAIR) in funding terrorism in the Holy Land Foundation trial? His comments regarding the US being an “assesory” to the 9/11 attacks, his “More Muslim blood on the US’ hands comments”, and they still think this is a witch-hunt to ostracize Muslims?

If you still have this same insular view after close to 60 pages, I’m not sure what would convince you otherwise.

What confuses me is that the argument ‘against’ seems to vacilate between:

(a) ‘they can build it anywhere else’ because it is insensitive - (even though Mosque construction is being obstructed around the country)
(b) building it endangers America (even though opposition and abandoning our values endangers us more)
(c) this Imam is bad because of his connections / (but this isn’t anti-Muslim - and others have shown his connections to bridge building)

So which is it?

For each of these arguments through 60 pages others have tried to address exactly why opposing the Mosque is wrong - but as you say at this point there is not likely to be a move of individual positions - hopefully others who just read the posts and don’t weigh in will be influenced by the logic of the argument that;

America is built on religious freedom.
Catholic Christians have as a fundamental value - LOVE - and Jesus’ words to ‘Not be afraid’ even when there are those who wish to use fear influence us to abandon love.

 

[agnes_therese]

If Muslims allow you to build Churches in their countries, then you should allow them too.
But if they forbid you, then why shouldn’t you do the same with them?

Why do you want us to be like them? When that happens, they’ve won.

 

[4elise]

Why do you want us to be like them? When that happens, they’ve won.

Exactly.
Well and simply said. When we give way to hate - hate wins.

 

[Alcrusader]

Are you suggesting that all christians should reject and abandon what our Lord taught :Do as you would like to be done by and replace it with a man-made perversion Do to others exactly what they they do to you? This is how the hard hearted people of OT times perverted God’s law: God’s “love command”: ’Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19 :18), was compromised to the extent of institutionalising hatred and revenge by hard hearted people who had it written down: If anyone injures his neighbor, whatever he has done must be done to him: fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth. As he has injured the other, so he is to be injured. (Lev 24:19-20).

Our Lord suffered and died for the cause of truth and salvation of mankind; do you want to reverse His Love command and corrupt Christendom?

My brother in Christ, I know the teaching of Christ very well, but you see I only gonna accept a mosque is going to be build their if we gonna have a Church or Jewish temple build in Saudi Arabia.
They are free to build this mosque on the moon if they want, but hey don’t make it sound like “fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth”, Muslims should respect the feelings of people!!
If someone killed your family, and after 10 years the murder’s family wanna build a memorial or anything that have to do with this killer, are you gonna say to them " Yes go ahead?", or you gonna reject?
It’s like building a memorial for Hitler near the Holocaust in Germany, sure people won’t accept that!

What Islam is trying to do is make history repeat again, They wanna do what they did in Spain… Don’t be naive people, Muslims are playing on "Freedom of believe " nonsense to promote to this rogue and brutal action!! They have 300 mosque in New York! What the hell Freedom of Believe has to do with building a mosque couples of meters away from where 3000 people lost their life??

Please Some logic!

 

[colmywaykurtz]

What confuses me is that the argument ‘against’ seems to vacilate between:

(a) ‘they can build it anywhere else’ because it is insensitive - (even though Mosque construction is being obstructed around the country)
(b) building it endangers America (even though opposition and abandoning our values endangers us more)
(c) this Imam is bad because of his connections / (but this isn’t anti-Muslim - and others have shown his connections to bridge building)

So which is it?

For each of these arguments through 60 pages others have tried to address exactly why opposing the Mosque is wrong - but as you say at this point there is not likely to be a move of individual positions - hopefully others who just read the posts and don’t weigh in will be influenced by the logic of the argument that;

America is built on religious freedom.
Catholic Christians have as a fundamental value - LOVE - and Jesus’ words to ‘Not be afraid’ even when there are those who wish to use fear influence us to abandon love.

I think you just wrote the post that all reasonable people reading this thread were waiting for. Nothing more need be said.

 

[Alcrusader]

Because we are America - built on freedom of religion.

Well guess what, someday this freedom gonna be history… Just remember my words

 

[Marie5890]

I wonder how many Americans really understand that this is not a mosque but a cultural center with a prayer room?

I also wonder how many Americans are aware that the Pentagon has an Islamic prayer room as well…and THAT was and actual terror site of 9-11 as we all know…

The old Burlington coat factory building at Park 51 was not (although debry from one of the planes did end up in it)

I can well understand the deep emotions of many of the families of 9-11 over this.
I however, am dismayed that a lot of facts are not out there and misinformation is appealing to the emotions and exploit the valid pain 9-11 left us with.

We should “rise above the demands of our emotions” and look to Christ.

 

[4elise]

Well guess what, someday this freedom gonna be history… Just remember my words

Those who oppose the Mosque are the first to throw away this essential American freedom.

 

[Splinker]

news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100814/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_ground_zero_mosque_obama

Seems to me Obama is working towards being a one-term president.

He’s the president of the United States, which includes muslim citizens. Sometimes you do what is right instead of what is popular.

 

[4elise]

He’s the president of the United States, which includes muslim citizens. Sometimes you do what is right instead of what is popular.

Thank you - he is the president of the United States as you say which includes Muslims citizens - and the commander in chief - for a military that includes Muslims - involved in two wars to protect the rights of countries with a majority of Muslims to dictate their own futures. Demonizing a faith based on the radicals does none of us any good. Blessings

 

[scipio337]

What confuses me is that the argument ‘against’ seems to vacilate between:

(a) ‘they can build it anywhere else’ because it is insensitive - (even though Mosque construction is being obstructed around the country)
(b) building it endangers America (even though opposition and abandoning our values endangers us more)
(c) this Imam is bad because of his connections / (but this isn’t anti-Muslim - and others have shown his connections to bridge building)

So which is it?

Can’t it be all of them? If you have anything to counter those specific arguments, please post them. I realize that “a)” is a little more of an emotional argument.

Can I assume you DIDN’T know those things about Rauf??

 

[seekerz]

If Muslims allow you to build Churches in their countries, then you should allow them too.
But if they forbid you, then why shouldn’t you do the same with them?

What do you mean by their countries? For Muslim citizens, this is THEIR country as much as it is yours. Also, religion does not decide US foreign or domestic policy, last I checked. This is a republic - not a theocracy, so if you are comparing America to, say, Saudi Arabia, you are comparing apples and oranges my friend.