Obama backs mosque near ground zero

[seekerz]

I’d be hard pressed to find an instance of an informed member of our clerical leadership saying that you need to understand terrorists and see the culpability of the U.S. for 9/11 because the U.S. sanctions on Iraq killed half a million Iraqi children.

You misunderstand I think. I was referring to criticism that the embargo was causing undue hardship to the people of Iraq…I never heard anyone in the Church say that we need to to equate the two (911 and embargo deaths). I also have heard numerous people in various venues allude to our training of Osama as contributing to what happened on 911.

 

[seekerz]

I’m very surprised of those Catholics that defends the build of this cruel thing called 13-story Islamic Community and Cultural Center with a mosque into it, that cost more than 100 million $ of Saudi and Iranian money… I even feel surprised that you could forget the past very easily in the name of the freedom card…
I think maybe if some of you had some relatives died in that area you would have a completely different view of this cruel act…

Muslims are making it sound like:" if you won’t let us build it, many of us gonna feel like we are been under persecution, and this gonna hurt muslims’ feelings and gonna make many muslims start to act violently and radically, and this gonna increase the rate of terrorism among Muslims in USA and outside it." This is what I’ve heard on Alhurra few days back…

They are making it as " if you won’t do it, then we gonna do this and this and this… so better you do it or else…"

a 10 years old kid is able to understand that it’s not just about building a simple 13 story building and a mosque… It’s bigger than that…

Maybe some of us Catholics are looking to the future and to the possibility that one day, the proposed site of a Church may offend the sensitivities of a particular group of people…you are sure right about one thing - even a 10 yr old can understand this is not simply about erecting a mosque.

 

[4elise]

Certainly, here is a list of reasons to support the project:
The completed project would provide opportunity for visitors to the 9/11 site to learn about the Muslim faith when not radicalized.
The completed project would provide valuable community resources such as a swimming pool, indoor basketball court, childcare services, and a library.
Show those extremists who justify their actions by saying the US hates Islam that they are wrong.
Don’t give politicians trying to turn this into a partisan issue the pleasure.
Show that even in the face of catastrophe, the US does not forget its values.

Thank you - this certainly encapsulates many of the reasons I support the project.

 

[Alcrusader]

Maybe some of us Catholics are looking to the future and to the possibility that one day, the proposed site of a Church may offend the sensitivities of a particular group of people…you are sure right about one thing - even a 10 yr old can understand this is not simply about erecting a mosque.

Well my friend history tell us: Don’t expect to much from that particular group of people…
Many before u have did what you are doing now, and regret it later… Hope your luck is better

 

[Alcrusader]

Thank you - this certainly encapsulates many of the reasons I support the project.

The purpose of this project is to lie and cheat people about the history of Islam and try to convert them and make it as the 1st step for learning the american people the Sharia’s laws…

 

[4elise]

My prayer is that Americans embrace our core values and support the right for the construction of this Mosque, to do otherwise allows a victory to the terrorists who not only killed thousands but apparently have also caused 70% of Americans to be willing to compromise the 1st amendment.

I also pray that Catholics will speak with a single voice in support of this project because we believe that Jesus is with us and we do not live in fear.

 

[Mr_Skeptic]

Side note: How are Pelosi’s plans for investigating those who oppose the Ground Zero Islamic Victory Center coming along?

 

[4elise]

The purpose of this project is to lie and cheat people about the history of Islam and try to convert them and make it as the 1st step for learning the american people the Sharia’s laws…

Your fears about this center seem to revolve around the idea that somehow it’s construction alone will blindly influence throngs of Americans into abandoning the constitution - why so little faith in the American people?

 

[bbarrick8383]

My prayer is that Americans embrace our core values and support the right for the construction of this Mosque, to do otherwise allows a victory to the terrorists who not only killed thousands but apparently have also caused 70% of Americans to be willing to compromise the 1st amendment.

I also pray that Catholics will speak with a single voice in support of this project because we believe that Jesus is with us and we do not live in fear.

We do very much suppor their right to build it.

We just have one simple little request…schooch it on over a bit, please.

 

[4elise]

We do very much suppor their right to build it.

We just have one simple little request…schooch it on over a bit, please.

If you support their right to build it, (which I am thrilled to know you do) then why ask that they do it a block further, two blocks further, the next county, out of state… if you support their right to build it - then support their right to build it right there - and let us show the terrorists what America is really made of… built on… and stands for, FREEDOM.

 

[Pitcharan]

My prayer is that Americans embrace our core values and support the right for the construction of this Mosque, to do otherwise allows a victory to the terrorists who not only killed thousands but apparently have also caused 70% of Americans to be willing to compromise the 1st amendment.

I also pray that Catholics will speak with a single voice in support of this project because we believe that Jesus is with us and we do not live in fear.

I am sure God will respond favorably to the prayers of His faithful

God’s will alone prevails (Wohi hota hai, jo mansur-e-Khuda hota hai)

 

[Catherine_D]

Maybe some of us Catholics are looking to the future and to the possibility that one day, the proposed site of a Church may offend the sensitivities of a particular group of people…you are sure right about one thing - even a 10 yr old can understand this is not simply about erecting a mosque.

I confess an even further look into the future. Recently I was asked why I was such a fan of futuristic programs such as “Star Trek” (I’m a confessed Trekkie!) I had to say that, compared to the present day, their portrayal of life (where, among other things, there is no racism, no bigotry, no discrimination of any kind) is so much better than our world today. It’s just so much more hopeful and RIGHT.

I wish I could live to see that day, in real life, but I know I won’t. But we all can still work towards such a world. Will it be perfect? Of course not, but it will be better than the world we have today.

In saying this, I know it is slightly “off topic” and I apologize, but I do think that it is a wonderful goal, to work towards a world where bigotry of any kind is just a word in some archaic dictionary, something people have to look up just to find out the meaning, and not a fact of life, no matter how unusual. It just shouldn’t BE.

 

[Catherine_D]

Why do they need an objective? Well how can they get what they want if they can’t state succinctly what it is? If not there then how far or how close? If not this plan then what plan would be acceptable? With all due respect to those still grieving, “not in this place” is hardly a reasonable request without defining what seems acceptable to them. Strong emotions are understandable, but they are hardly a sound basis for decision-making.

Luckily, Seekerz, for both of us, we don’t (personally) have to sort any of this out!
I hope that those affected will have that chance to do just that! Some are asking for that, let’s hope they succeed!

Since I am currently, in my life, associated with grieving (albeit some sort of pre-grieving since my Dad is in hospice) I’d ask you to give those that grieve “a pass”. Maybe I’m so sentimental because my Father is dying, and I will lose him soon, I’ll give you that. I’m probably an insanely soft touch. No, he isn’t dying because of 9/11, but he’s dying, so I feel a special kinship to those who are grieving because I know that I will soon be among them. My instinct is to be gentle towards grieving persons. I think we all should be so.

 

[bbarrick8383]

If you support their right to build it, (which I am thrilled to know you do) then why ask that they do it a block further, two blocks further, the next county, out of state… if you support their right to build it - then support their right to build it right there - and let us show the terrorists what America is really made of… built on… and stands for, FREEDOM.

Because this is New York’s call. If they are overwhelmingly asking this Imam to move it away then I support them. As a conservative okie, I can only support them based on their emotional plea. It’s not in my blood to tell another states citizen how they should handle their business, there is just not one drop of liberal in me, sorry.

I just wish those yankees would extend the same favor to us when we pass laws trying to limit the number of abortions in my state and not file lawsuites against us.

I’m not sure if you read my hypothetical analogy earlier in this thread, but that is my defense for them. I can understand their emotions in this situation and there is nothing I can do about it. The city officials should be ashamed of themselves for not helping the other Church out though, and they should already have the memorial up by now. I’m not too familiar with the hold up on that one though.

 

[4elise]

I confess an even further look into the future. Recently I was asked why I was such a fan of futuristic programs such as “Star Trek” (I’m a confessed Trekkie!) I had to say that, compared to the present day, their portrayal of life (where, among other things, there is no racism, no bigotry, no discrimination of any kind) is so much better than our world today. It’s just so much more hopeful and RIGHT.

I wish I could live to see that day, in real life, but I know I won’t. But we all can still work towards such a world. Will it be perfect? Of course not, but it will be better than the world we have today.

In saying this, I know it is slightly “off topic” and I apologize, but I do think that it is a wonderful goal, to work towards a world where bigotry of any kind is just a word in some archaic dictionary, something people have to look up just to find out the meaning, and not a fact of life, no matter how unusual. It just shouldn’t BE.

I knew I recognized something I really liked about you fellow treckkie! —
We must live here and now as we want the future to be - or there is no hope that it will every be - I certainly do not think it is off topic.

 

[4elise]

Because this is New York’s call. If they are overwhelmingly asking this Imam to move it away then I support them. As a conservative okie, I can only support them based on their emotional plea. It’s not in my blood to tell another states citizen how they should handle their business, there is just not one drop of liberal in me, sorry.

I just wish those yankees would extend the same favor to us when we pass laws trying to limit the number of abortions in my state and not file lawsuites against us.

I’m not sure if you read my hypothetical analogy earlier in this thread, but that is my defense for them. I can understand their emotions in this situation and there is nothing I can do about it. The city officials should be ashamed of themselves for not helping the other Church out though, and they should already have the memorial up by now. I’m not too familiar with the hold up on that one though.

And to the New York Muslims that want the center, what of their rights?
The rights do not just go the the majority but our job is also to protect the rights of the minority.

 

[Catherine_D]

I knew I recognized something I really liked about you fellow treckkie! —
We must live here and now as we want the future to be - or there is no hope that it will every be - I certainly do not think it is off topic.

But Elise, we have something available to us that we never saw in the Trekkie world ~ we can PRAY!

 

[bbarrick8383]

And to the New York Muslims that want the center, what of their rights?

I’m not arguing anyones rights to do anything. Like I said, they have the right to build it.

The question here is,

Should they build it there on that spot?

The people, it seems to me, of New York have asked them to move it for emotional reasons. I support them in their plea. If they move ahead an build it there on that location, so be it. It will only anger those who asked them not to.

 

[4elise]

But Elise, we have something available to us that we never saw in the Trekkie world ~ we can PRAY!

Indeed - we can pray for a better world, but we must also take the actions that will bring it to fruition!

 

[4elise]

I’m not arguing anyones rights to do anything. Like I said, they have the right to build it.

The question here is,

Should they build it there on that spot?

The people, it seems to me, of New York have asked them to move it for emotional reasons. I support them in their plea. If they move ahead an build it there on that location, so be it. It will only anger those who asked them not to.

As you say - it is their right - and protecting their right - even though they may be in the minority - is the right thing to do.