Obama declares support for same-sex marriage

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But you are wrong. It is not part of the natural order. The natural order is focused on the children and their rights. The natural order of marriage is the creation and rearing of children, Two people of the same sex can not create children. Same sex marriage is not natural.
But just because a couple cannot create children, it does not mean the marriage is not natural.
It just means they cannot make children.

If this was the case, then all infertile heterosexuals would not be allowed to marry.
 
This demonstrates, however, how the predominance of East Coast Liberal attitudes does indeed influence the press. If you read the news coverage on this story, you get the sense that he’s trying to get in on a rising tide of support for gay “marriage”, while in fact the vote is going the other way. The press, however, tends to treat this issue as though redefining marriage in this radical fashion is inevitable.

Of course, repeatedly telling people that it is normal, that gay unions are happy, gay sex okay, and that marriage is just about romantic love and sex tend to have an impact over time and there is indeed a risk that the popular media will convince people of that, or that they already have done so for large numbers of people in the Western World.
I guess the opposite is true, too.
If people are told repeatedly from childhood that gay sex and marriage is “unnatural” and bad and a sin…those thoughts and ideas will have an impact over time and there is a risk that people will be convinced of it.
 
What is his gambit…?

I think it’s to invoke revolution in the streets like an anerchist.
 
I don’t understand why many keep saying this.
Just because there wasn’t homosexual marriage previously, doesn’t mean there can’t be “such thing” now and in the future.
Obviously, the world evolves.

Marriage isn’t necessarily, for many people, a religious ceremony–if that were the case, then most people who get married would not be married.

And it’s not as though marriage wasn’t around before someone formed judeo-christian temples and churches, right?
Yes, marriage has been around for thousands of years. No society up till now has ever considered that marriage might consist of same sex couples. Because obviously same sex couples can not engage in marital intercourse, nor can they procreate or raise the next generation of children. Consequently, while homosexual activities might have been tolerated in some cultures, none ever designated it as marriage, because it can’t be, and is of no benefit to the continuance of society.
 
But just because a couple cannot create children, it does not mean the marriage is not natural.
It just means they cannot make children.

If this was the case, then all infertile heterosexuals would not be allowed to marry.
Wrong!,
 
Why would you think that?
If Obama gave an interview and said he supported free health care…and then the next day, his approval rating shot up–the logical conclusion would be that most Americans support free health care–not that they are pawns of some group.

If he says he’s in agreement of gay marriage and votes for him go up right after that, then there is a good chance that means many Americans agree with him.

How is it that they suddenly become “pawns”?
They are voting for something they believe in.

If you yourself vote for a presidential nominee who says she will make abortion illegal…could you then in all logic be accused of being “pawn” of the Catholic church?
They are pawns since they are ignorant of the GLBT lifestyle. They believe that it’s all good to have sex with members of the same sex. And yes, a lot of them are impressionable youths who believe the idiocy coming out of the mainstream media.
 
And it’s not as though marriage wasn’t around before someone formed judeo-christian temples and churches, right?
And marriage was around before there were nation states to issue marriage licenses. Marriage is for the creation and rearing of children which dates back to the beginning of man, so it does predate Judaism and the USA
 
The friends I have with same-sex attraction admit that their desire is disordered.
Among the people I know that live the gay lifestyle, the topic doesn’t come up. They are aware that I am Catholic, that I adhere to Church teaching, and they leave it at that. While they may disagree, we don’t spend time discussing our sexual desires/acts.

On things like annulments, if it occurred in a situation that I felt I had the facts, I would be outraged. But the proceedings of annulments are not public record, and I trust the Church to make a responsible judgment.
Lol…the topic doesn’t come up? Really?

And I am supposed to accept all you’ve said, but in my case, regarding my family, you “trust the church.” Lol…yeah, we’re sharing alright.
 
FYI…“forum master,” “forum elder,” etc. are based on how long you’ve been a member of CAF and how many posts you have made. There is no affiliation between senior members of CAF and the moderators of CAF. There are not two sets of rules. Trust me…many of us have been disciplined many times.
Robert, you win the Good Samaritan award for being the very first person to treat me in a civil manner on this forum! Congrats!
 
So…
If someone is Catholic and married and they repeatedly have affairs or “fall in love” with another person, that is considered a “disordered” love too, right?
Yes, but for a different reason. A good discussion of marriage can be found here. From it:
Marriage or wedlock is said to be true by reason of its attaining its perfection. Now perfection of anything is twofold; first, and second. The first perfection of a thing consists in its very form, from which it receives its species; while the second perfection of a thing consists in its operation, by which in some way a thing attains its end. Now the form of matrimony consists in a certain inseparable union of souls, by which husband and wife are pledged by a bond of mutual affection that cannot be sundered. And the end of matrimony is the begetting and upbringing of children: the first of which is attained by conjugal intercourse; the second by the other duties of husband and wife, by which they help one another in rearing their offspring.
So those that “repeatedly have affairs or ‘fall in love’ with another person” are acting contrary to the form of matrimony.
To be in love with someone outside your marriage?
Marriage is not only about love. This emphasis on love is not sufficient to establish the grounds for marriage. For if it were, we’d have no argument against a whole host of relationships, e.g. incest, polygamy, and polyandry. By the same token, a lack of love is not sufficient to end a marriage. It seems the vogue notion that marriage is about love, and “Love is all we need.” But of course, in all these cases, the word “love” means something mostly emotional.

I think it is true that love is sufficient. But only the right kind of love–what C. S. Lewis calls “agape”. Those who act outside the bounds of marriage are bound up in eros, not agape.
But then…why is it that these people are still “permitted” to stay/be married?
By this, I presume you mean infidelity after establishment of the marriage. If there is infidelity before the marriage, I do believe it is grounds for an annulment, since it indicates a lack of consent (i.e. the lack of sincerity means that there is not full consent to the bounds of marriage).

Now, presuming the marriage had full consent, they are bound as an “inseparable union of souls”. They are not " ‘permitted’ to say/be married," they are required to remain married. “What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.” From CCC 2384 (emphasis mine):
Divorce is a grave offense against the natural law. It claims to break the contract, to which the spouses freely consented, to live with each other till death. Divorce does injury to the covenant of salvation, of which sacramental marriage is the sign. Contracting a new union, even if it is recognized by civil law, adds to the gravity of the rupture: the remarried spouse is then in a situation of public and permanent adultery:
If a husband, separated from his wife, approaches another woman, he is an adulterer because he makes that woman commit adultery, and the woman who lives with him is an adulteress, because she has drawn another’s husband to herself.​
Why are they then not called to a life of celibacy when they realize they have a “disorder” that is equal to a disease/birth defect?
Sexual relations are disordered insofar as they are neither unitive nor genitive. Sexual relations outside of the bonds of marriage are not unitive. And sexual relations that are not ordered toward procreation are not genitive. The former applies to those who act outside of marriage, such as those who repeatedly engage in affairs. The latter applies to homosexual couples. The call to celibacy is to acts that are contrary to the unitive and genitive nature.

So, in short, yes they are called to celibacy–celibacy from acts outside of the marriage. And if their passions lead them to compulsively engage in such behavior, then yes, it is a " ‘disorder’ that is equal to a disease/birth defect". And they are called to remain celibate from such activity.

Now, as to the part that you quoted from my earlier message, I should provide more clarification. When I say that “[t]he friends I have with same-sex attraction … acknowledge their commitment to remain celibate”, I mean that they acknowledge their commitment to remain celibate outside the bonds of marriage. Neither of them are married, nor do they have any desire to marry. They have fallen in love before with other men, but recognized the disorder of the attraction and ended the relationships.
 
Lol…the topic doesn’t come up? Really?
Ok, you got me. It came up between us exactly once with each of them. I told them what I believe, and I left it at that. I should have been more clear. What I meant is that it is not a topic of frequent conversation. Indeed, it is so rare as to be non-existent. The only time it comes up is when someone outside our group brings it up.

So, yeah, it doesn’t come up.
And I am supposed to accept all you’ve said, but in my case, regarding my family, you “trust the church.” Lol…yeah, we’re sharing alright.
I don’t know the facts of the case. I’m not a part of the tribunal. I have no idea on what grounds they granted the annulment in your family’s case.

And as I said, were I to be privy to such information, had the knowledge and training, and felt that an annulment were improperly granted, I too would be furious. But I don’t have the information, and I don’t have the knowledge or training, so who am I to contradict the tribunal?

As for sharing, we are sharing. You give me your point of view, I give you mine. It’s that simple.
 
Marriage isn’t necessarily, for many people, a religious ceremony–if that were the case, then most people who get married would not be married.
That’s my idea!

Get the state out of marriage all together. Make it a legal contract (that’s how the law views it anyway).

Leave marriage to the churches. Have the Church re-emphasize the difference between the way the Church views marriage and the world views marriage. Lets the state legalize same sex, multiple, animal unions without impacting the Church or calling it marriage. Gets divorce out of marriage, too, since the churches aren’t part of the legal system, and marriage will only be part of the churches.

Oh, well, seemed like a possible solution for the fighting to me.

Tom A.
Polyamory is wrong. It is either multiamory or polyphillia. Mixing Greek and Latin roots is wrong.
 
Lol…the topic doesn’t come up? Really?
Laugh all you want. The topic also does not come up in my dealings with associates who are homosexual (relatives, acquaintances, friends, employees of mine). It would be inappropriate for me to bring it up, and probably most of them are not interested in hearing opinions of others regarding personal decisions they have already made and are living. (I assume that if they were interested in knowing my opinion, they would ask me.)

It would be particularly inappropriate in a work setting to discuss it. One of my homosexual employees has brought it up several times; I merely listen and do not engage her. I believe she thinks that I agree with her because I do not argue but merely listen without comment. The topic has zero to do with my professional relationship with her, or with her work product. In addition to legal and social problems that could arise by my offering an unsolicited opinion, my opinion about her lifestyle choices is irrelevant to her performance on the job.
 
Manny Pacquiao Uses Bible to Rebuke Obama’s Support for Gay Marriage
Manny Pacquiao, Christian Filipino boxer and congressman, has reportedly disagreed with President Barack Obama’s support of redefining marriage to include same-sex couples, and has insisted people should always put God’s word first.
After Obama vocalized that he was in support of gay marriage earlier this week, Pacquiao was adamant that the president had got it wrong. In an interview with the National Conservative Examiner while training in Los Angeles, Calif., Pacquiao spoke about the need for society to put “God’s words first.”
The boxer quoted Leviticus 20:13 when referring to the president’s decision to advocate for same-sex marriage.
“If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable,” Pacquiao told the Examiner. “They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.”
However, Obama has attempted to explain his reasoning for supporting a redefinition of marriage, using the Golden Rule of loving your neighbor as justification for ignoring other verses condemning homosexuality in the Bible.
“Do unto others as you would have them do to you,” the president said in an ABC News report. “At a certain point I’ve just concluded that for me personally it is important for me to go ahead and affirm that I think same-sex couples should be able to get married.”
While the 33-year-old boxer said he respected Obama, he told the Examiner that the president should read the bible or “manual of life” to better society.
“God only expects man and woman to be together and to be legally married, only if they so are in love with each other,” Pacquiao said. “It should not be of the same sex so as to adulterate the altar of matrimony, like in the days of Sodom and Gomorrah of Old.”
Pacquiao, nicknamed “Pacman,” is a Roman Catholic who has talked recently about ending his fighting career to focus on his religious beliefs. The boxer told ABS-CBN News that his fight against Timothy Bradley Jr. at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas on June 9 might be the last of his career.
global.christianpost.com/news/manny-pacquiao-uses-bible-to-rebuke-obamas-support-for-gay-marriage-74852
 
Given Obamas support of unrestricted taxpayer funded abortion on demand and for homosexual marriage can any Catholic honestly say there are proportionate reasons to vote for Obama over Romney?
 
Given Obamas support of unrestricted taxpayer funded abortion on demand and for homosexual marriage can any Catholic honestly say there are proportionate reasons to vote for Obama over Romney?
[sarcasm]
But, but the GOP wants to make grandma eat dog food, and they are a bunch of war mongers for the Death Penalty
[/sarcasm]
 
You’re the forum master? And you snipe like this? My point has been proven. There are two sets of rules here, obviously.

And for your information, my friends( many recovered addicts) get the truth because I’m not ashamed to tell it.
Snipe? You accuse me of this because I asked questions?
 
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