Obama declares support for same-sex marriage

[fix]

Well, what a surprise. Yet another dismissive one liner. Everyone here seems to be great at that. At least the atheists on HuffPo depend on logic, rather than snipes.

Lets us discuss the issue not each other.

No, it is true, you have two sets of rules here. A dissenter is not trusted and yet, I am supposed to accept the truthfulness of all you say. This has happened several times already on these forums. You dismiss my entirely true story about my uncle’s annullment yet I am supposed to accept the unrealitic notion that someone here really has realistic conversations with gay friends and they openly accept that they are “disordered.”

I do not know the specfics of your story about the decree of nullity, but what has that to do with the topic?

And it seems NO ONE needs to be charitable to a Democrat here as the Prez is slandered at will. I guess I might be the only one who feels that to be uncharitable?

Calls for false charity and false civility are more common than calls to stick to the topic.

Nobody answered what a homosexualist was.

One who promotes homosexual acts as normal and acceptable.

 

[_Abyssinia]

New York Times/CBS poll: Obama gay marriage speech political

A national poll by The New York Times and CBS News shows Americans believe Obama made his speech approving gay marriage “mostly for political reasons.”

An overwhelming majority of 67%

of those polled said they think Mr. Obama was mostly pandering for votes while 24% indicated they think he made the speech because mostly due to personal conviction.

…

Holly Wright, 67, an independent from Smithfield, Va., who worked in the food industry, said she believed Mr. Obama concluded that more Americans agreed on same-sex marriage. “He believes it will help him win the election,” she said. “In other words, say what the majority of the people want to hear.”

…

“If Biden hadn’t said something, I don’t think he would have said anything either,” said Larry Gannon, 48, a graphic artist from Norwalk, Calif. and an independent, who participated in the survey.
About

digitaljournal.com/article/324892#ixzz1uxmNgPc4

Obama campaign is calling the poll biased:

politico.com/blogs/media/2012/05/obama-camp-nytcbs-poll-bias-123504.html

Alarm Grows Among Dems About Obama’s Chances

foxnews.com/politics/2012/05/15/alarm-grows-among-dems-about-obamas-chances

 

[Suudy]

No, it is true, you have two sets of rules here. A dissenter is not trusted and yet, I am supposed to accept the truthfulness of all you say. This has happened several times already on these forums.

Because to do otherwise would to imply someone is lying. If I say that my gay friends accept that their same-sex attractions are disordered and have told me so, I mean it. Are you saying I’m lying about it?

You dismiss my entirely true story about my uncle’s annullment yet I am supposed to accept the unrealitic notion that someone here really has realistic conversations with gay friends and they openly accept that they are “disordered.”

Again, I never said they are disordered. I said their attractions to people of the same sex are disordered. And they freely admit this. This does not mean they, as individuals, are disordered.

 

[Yeoman]

Your posts give a cogent defense of marriage as it has been understood throughout history. But it seems that those who favor homosexual marriage no longer want to hear reason, they simply want to do what feels right to them. We have turned into a society based mostly on personal feelings. (Which is another reason why marriages fail.)

You are exactly correct. Which, in turn, makes marriage standardless, and hence nearly meaningless.

We need to win here, but we also need to recover a lot of lost ground.

 

[ManOnFire]

It is unfortunate that the Democrat Party has so embraced the culture of death that Catholics are limited in their choices.

Here’s their agenda:
Liberal sex = sex-for-pleasure = bullet-proof birth control and abortion = population control. All in the name of “caring.” The more that homosexuality is promoted, more “open-minded” people will try it, then less kids will be born. The social engineers believe it’s “good for us.” High energy prices = expensive cost of living = too expensive to have more kids, which is why they don’t want lower energy costs.

I sometimes wonder if we would be better off with a govt-imposed 2 child maximum. Then, we could restore the true love, innocence and beauty of life, the way it was meant to be lived, instead of playing this painful intentional game. I know I’ll get railed for this, but something’s gotta give. If more people were to truly “get it,” we would have a population explosion. It’s tragic, but as more people stay “lost,” less people are born.

 

[Dejagirl]

Something positive to say… well, I at least respect that he’s not playing the “wait until after the election” game.

Nothing in politics is ever coincidental. This was all planned and played by the media. He’s raised $21 million from this already.

 

[Allen2Saint]

Lets us discuss the issue not each other.

Calls for false charity and false civility are more common than calls to stick to the topic.

.

Right, you say I cant prove my points, but if I call that an insult, you say I need to stay on topic. And when I say my views are being insulted, you call that a call for “false civility.” And you count on the moderator to enable your passive aggressiveness. I see the moderators get a workout here.

You don’t want to engage those who disagree with you or learn a thing about them, which is fine. I just mistook this forum for a place where thoughtful discussion could take place.

 

[Allen2Saint]

Because to do otherwise would to imply someone is lying. If I say that my gay friends accept that their same-sex attractions are disordered and have told me so, I mean it. Are you saying I’m lying about it?

.

But you dismiss the story of my womanizing uncle’s annullment. Are you saying I’m lying?

 

[fix]

Right, you say I cant prove my points, but if I call that an insult, you say I need to stay on topic. And when I say my views are being insulted, you call that a call for “false civility.” And you count on the moderator to enable your passive aggressiveness. I see the moderators get a workout here.

You don’t want to engage those who disagree with you or learn a thing about them, which is fine. I just mistook this forum for a place where thoughtful discussion could take place.

Aside from claiming people dismiss you can you state what your point is?

 

[Suudy]

But you dismiss the story of my womanizing uncle’s annullment. Are you saying I’m lying?

I didn’t dismiss it. I refused to pass judgment on it one way or the other.

Let me repeat myself so I am clear:
And as I said, were I to be privy to such information, had the knowledge and training, and felt that an annulment were improperly granted, I too would be furious.
Now, if you have the knowledge and training regarding your uncle’s annulment, and think it was improperly adjudicated, then yes, you have a right to be furious. I do not disbelieve you, nor have I ever stated otherwise.

Yet you say that I have conversations with my friends with same-sex attractions is an “unrealitic notion”. This is not a statement of neutrality, but one of disbelief.

 

[estesbob]

But you dismiss the story of my womanizing uncle’s annullment. Are you saying I’m lying?

Your uncles alleged behavior is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. As to why people are sharp with you- you have a grand total of 39 posts of which over half are complaining about how mean people are to you. Like in life One earns credibility as people come to know you.

 

[Midwest88]

Manny Pacquiao Uses Bible to Rebuke Obama’s Support for Gay Marriage

global.christianpost.com/news/manny-pacquiao-uses-bible-to-rebuke-obamas-support-for-gay-marriage-74852

The Conservative Examiner article has some nasty and vile comments. This one made me fume:

It’s very disturbing that people take the bible literally. It’s rhetoric written by power hungry men 2000 years ago who wanted to control people and here we are, over 2000 years later and people still take this Dark Ages ideology serious. If you have your beliefs that’s fine, keep it where it belongs, in the church, your home or with people who think like you do. Religion is a dangerous weapon, especially in the hands of ignorant, intolerant people.

It comes to no surprise the person who made that statement is a contributor to the Examiner also.

 

[Elizabeth502]

^ The excerpt illuminates just who is “intolerant” and “ignorant.”

 

[Jeanne_S]

^ The excerpt illuminates just who is “intolerant” and “ignorant.”

Amen!

 

[Allen2Saint]

Aside from claiming people dismiss you can you state what your point is?

My support for same sex marriage as a civil right, and the reasons for my support, which were gleaned from my professional experience, have been clearly explained in this thread. Perhaps you should have read my posts before your negative comments.

 

[estesbob]

My support for same sex marriage as a civil right, and the reasons for my support, which were gleaned from my professional experience, have been clearly explained in this thread. Perhaps you should have read my posts before your negative comments.

Civil Right? You equate choosingg to engage in sodomy as bring equivalent to ons race, gender or country of national origin?

And when you say that you gleaned this from professional experience are you contending that personal experience is sufficient to reject the teachings of your Church?

 

[markomalley]

My support for same sex marriage as a civil right, and the reasons for my support, which were gleaned from my professional experience, have been clearly explained in this thread. Perhaps you should have read my posts before your negative comments.

OK…Let’s review so we all understand your position.

I support it.

As a faith group, we can handle what we feel is right, wrong, appropriate or not. But, as a nation, I feel we have an obligation to provide equal rights to all, even those we feel are not appealing to us.

As a chaplain, all I can say is that I had many experiences trying to visit and comfort the spouse in a same sex couple and had to deal with their expectation that I would be prejudiced against them or they would feel uncomfortable telling me they were in a relationship. I wasn’t going to pry, so I was hamstrung, unable to provide the care I was well trained to give.

The loneliness of losing a loved one is bad enough without feeling degraded by not being able to call the person a husband or wife, if in fact that’s what they are to them.

In contrast, I’ve seen our church grant annullments to marriages where straight out infidelity has occurred, so, sadly, I can’t say our church’s hands are clean on this.

But, that said, we as a church have a right to deal with it within our walls, but as an American, I can’t see stopping it. I am far from an activist on this issue, but I feel it is a right and I can’t deny that right to the people I have known.

I understand this is the natural law teaching of the church and I respect you as a fellow Catholic. Knowing many gay men and women who have the very same longing I have to marry someone and share their lives, I find that also to be part of the natural order. I have a hard time believing our benevolent creator would damn so many people to unhappiness by cursing them with a desire for love that can never be satisfied.

Also, having seen an uncle of mine commit rampant adultery and then receive an annulment from our church for his 40 year marriage, (destroying my aunt’s psyche in the process), I am not completely confident in our church’s stance on marriage. Not expecting to change anyone’s mind with this, but after watching much of my childhood annulled, I’m OK with being in opposition on this one.

It’s not an either/or. As Catholics we should strive to mold society in a way that is–at minimum–not contrary to Catholic teaching. Same-sex “marriage” is contrary to Catholic teaching. Coercion is contrary to Catholic teaching. We should oppose both.*

Yeah. Like in the Gospel of uh…let’s see…when Jesus said exactly that! We need to mold sociey…hmmmm…can’t find it here in my Bible.

Have no idea what the coercion comment is about and calling my gay friends disabled or whatever you’re saying is, dare I say it, less than charitable. Clearly, you have no gay friends. I find them just as capable of the mistakes heterosexuals make and just as capable of love and kindness.

As long as our church grants annullments to people who have been married for 40 years as it did in my family and still struggles to justly handle abuse issues, I think we would be well served by turning our efforts toward cleaning our house.

Do you tell your gay friends you think they’re disordered? That you equate their sexuality with a disease or a birth defect?

Either or? Yes, and since we are only outraged at what we feel is important, that’s what gets our attention. No outrage for my annulled aunt living in disgrace, for instance. Its the church’s entire teaching as a whole on these things. Like we’re an organic whole.

Clearly these forums do not exist for dissenting opinions to be shared and discussed, but for the community to coalesce around agreed points of view. I didn’t understand that before. I will only post where I am needed from now on.

So, do I understand correctly that you do not agree with the Church’s teaching on homosexual conduct?

And do I understand correctly that you think that the Church should change Her doctrine based on the justification that some members of the Church did not live up to that doctrine? (Your uncle with his 40 year relationship with your aunt – that was declared to be an invalid marriage from the start when the issue was brought before the tribunal…as well as the abuse scandal of the 60s - 80s?)

Just want to make sure I understand what you’re saying…

 

[ComputerGeek25]

OK…Let’s review so we all understand your position.

So, do I understand correctly that you do not agree with the Church’s teaching on homosexual conduct?

And do I understand correctly that you think that the Church should change Her doctrine based on the justification that some members of the Church did not live up to that doctrine? (Your uncle with his 40 year relationship with your aunt – that was declared to be an invalid marriage from the start when the issue was brought before the tribunal…as well as the abuse scandal of the 60s - 80s?)

Just want to make sure I understand what you’re saying…

That’s the sad mantra of some people. Just because some people fall short does not mean that doctorine should change.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Civil Rights leaders speak out against “hijacking” of movement

*Declare that “there is no civil right to do what God calls wrong” *

A coalition of well-known and highly respected Black clergy headed by the Reverend William Owens, founder and president of the Coalition of African American Pastors (CAAP) and other leaders responded strongly to President Obama’s declaration of support for same-sex marriage. Reverend Owens led in the civil rights movement in Nashville, Tennessee and said he is appalled by the ongoing effort by GLBT activists to link sexual diversity to the historic fight for civil rights for Black Americans. The coalition includes such noted leaders as:

• Bishop George D. McKinney, Jurisdictional Prelate of Southern California Second Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction and General Board Member of the Church of God in Christ; senior pastor of St. Stephens Cathedral in San Diego, California

•      Bishop Felton Smith, Prelate of the Tennessee Eastern First urisdiction and Senior Pastor of New Covenant Fellowship Church of God in Christ in Nashville, TN. He also serves as Episcopal Coordinator on the Board of Bishops for the Church of God in Christ.

•      Bishop Brandon B Porter, Prelate of the Tennessee Central, Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction of the Church of God in Christ and Senior Pastor of Greater Community Temple in Memphis

•     Bishop Ed Stephens, Jr., Senior Pastor of Golden Gate Cathedral in Memphis

•     Bishop James H. Gaylord, Prelate of the 1st Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction of Eastern New York and Senior Pastor of Kelly Temple in Harlem, NY.

•      Dr. Dwight Montgomery, Pastor of Annesdale Cherokee Baptist Church, Memphis, and President of the SCLC (Memphis Chapter)

•      Dr. Chuck Singleton, Senior Pastor of Loveland Church in Ontario, California

•      Bishop Robert Jefferson, Senior Pastor of Cullen Missionary Baptist Church, Houston, Texas

•      Bishop Janice Hollis, Presiding Prelate of the Covenant International Fellowship of Churches.

•      Rev. William Owens, Sr., Founder and President, Coalition of African American Pastors, Memphis

“We cannot and will not remain silent while marriage, the most fundamental institution in our and any nation, is undermined by our own President while using Christian language and relating it to civil rights.

imakenews.com/hapc/e_article002428687.cfm?x=b11,0,w

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Civil Rights leaders speak out against “hijacking” of movement

*Declare that “there is no civil right to do what God calls wrong” *

imakenews.com/hapc/e_article002428687.cfm?x=b11,0,w

Interesting. The black women at work who have changed their minds about voting for Obama because of his endorsement of same-sex marriage are all COGIC members (note the affiliation of the pastors on that list).