Obama declares support for same-sex marriage

[myriad1]

Abyssinia, we have very different perspectives. We can agree to disagree. It will be interesting to see what the election results will be in the fall and and to see how things play out from there.

 

[rlg94086]

Abyssinia, we have very different perspectives. We can agree to disagree. It will be interesting to see what the election results will be in the fall and and to see how things play out from there.

In other words, Abyssinia, you totally decimated myriad1’s argument.

 

[myriad1]

Decimated my argument? No, not at all. I don’t feel a need to win a discussion/argument here. My views were stated as are others. We will see where the chips will fall.

 

[stevegravy]

As I said before, Obama just wants to, ”Stand by his man.”

 

[fibromom]

Oh, boy…

Part of me is saying:

“His possibility for a second term has just evaporated.”

Another side of me says:

“We’ll see in November whether this sinks him or not. A good portion of the non-religious (and some liberally religious) public supports this----so it could be a either/or proposition.”

I tend to cautiously (and ultimately) go with the second thought. We’ll see.

IF he wins a second term, he will see it as a blank check by the American people to let him try to pass whatever he wants. This will be one of his opportunities to write “checks.”

Hang on to your safety belts, folks…

We need to get Obama out of the White House. Urgently. It is time for the religious people of this country (whether Catholic or not) and the just plain God-abiding, period, to stand up for the Truth Of God.

Please Holy Father, help us in our hour of need. Through the prayers of the Mother of God,
have mercy on us and save us. Amen.

Wow…maybe I do not belong on this page. I am a practicing Catholic who also believes in the rights of all human beings, including gays. I live by Christ’s words of, “Love thy neighbor as thyself” and he did not say “unless they are gay.” Also, I believe final judgment is in the hands of God and not human beings. Jesus taught us to love one another and to treat others as we would like to be treated.

I have compassion for gays and support all of God’s people. To me, the prejudice against gays is no different than the prejudices against blacks, asians, hispanics, women, etc.

Social justice is very important to me.

Like I said, maybe I do need to leave my church that I love so dearly.

 

[bellasbane]

Wow…maybe I do not belong on this page. I am a practicing Catholic who also believes in the rights of all human beings, including gays. I live by Christ’s words of, “Love thy neighbor as thyself” and he did not say “unless they are gay.” Also, I believe final judgment is in the hands of God and not human beings. Jesus taught us to love one another and to treat others as we would like to be treated.

I have compassion for gays and support all of God’s people. To me, the prejudice against gays is no different than the prejudices against blacks, asians, hispanics, women, etc.

Social justice is very important to me.

Like I said, maybe I do need to leave my church that I love so dearly.

You can’t leave the Church to the intolerant. If you do - they win.

 

[rlg94086]

Wow…maybe I do not belong on this page. I am a practicing Catholic who also believes in the rights of all human beings, including gays. I live by Christ’s words of, “Love thy neighbor as thyself” and he did not say “unless they are gay.” Also, I believe final judgment is in the hands of God and not human beings. Jesus taught us to love one another and to treat others as we would like to be treated.

I have compassion for gays and support all of God’s people. To me, the prejudice against gays is no different than the prejudices against blacks, asians, hispanics, women, etc.

Social justice is very important to me.

Like I said, maybe I do need to leave my church that I love so dearly.

The Church does not teach that we should unjustly discriminate against homosexuals. However, we can, in no way, support homosexual marriages or unions. To do so, would be the equivalent of supporting adulterous affairs or encouraging masturbation. The people who engage in adulterous affairs or masturbate are still beloved children of God, just as those who engage in homosexual acts are beloved children of God. All are to be loved and encouraged to live the chaste lives we are all called to.

Social justice is also very important to me. I could not leave the Church over the fact that some Catholics disagree with Her teaching.

 

[JimG]

Wow…maybe I do not belong on this page. I am a practicing Catholic who also believes in the rights of all human beings, including gays. I live by Christ’s words of, “Love thy neighbor as thyself” and he did not say “unless they are gay.” Also, I believe final judgment is in the hands of God and not human beings. Jesus taught us to love one another and to treat others as we would like to be treated.

I have compassion for gays and support all of God’s people. To me, the prejudice against gays is no different than the prejudices against blacks, asians, hispanics, women, etc.

Social justice is very important to me.

Like I said, maybe I do need to leave my church that I love so dearly.

It is not necessary to leave the Church in order to have compassion for anyone. Catholic Charities such as the Missionaries of Charity have ministered to gays for years with great compassion, and without ever advocating a change in Catholic morality. The Church is a hospital for sinners, not a haven for saints. That doesn’t mean that we celebrate particular immoral actions just because we have compassion for those who commit them.

 

[rlg94086]

It is not necessary to leave the Church in order to have compassion for anyone. Catholic Charities such as the Missionaries of Charity have ministered to gays for years with great compassion, and without ever advocating a change in Catholic morality. The Church is a hospital for sinners, not a haven for saints. That doesn’t mean that we celebrate particular immoral actions just because we have compassion for those who commit them.

 

[Elizabeth502]

I live by Christ’s words of, “Love thy neighbor as thyself” and he did not say “unless they are gay.”

So do all practicing, believing Catholics, including all those of us “on this page” (and on this thread).

The Church rejects all unjust discrimination & prejudice. It’s in there in the Catechism. The Church specifically rejects unjust discrimination against homosexuals. That is also explicitly stated in the Catechism.
The Church supports and promotes the just and proper differentiation of the sin vs. the person.
The Church supports and promotes the just and proper differentiation between the fixed Truth of traditional male-female marriage and the lie of a faux marriage based on an attachment to sin (heterosexual cohabitation, homosexual unions, polygamy, etc.)

The Church is no more or less compassionate about the sins of heterosexuals than about the sins of homosexuals.

Social justice is very important to me.

Social justice does not include the deconstruction of traditional marriage.

maybe I do need to leave my church that I love so dearly.

Or maybe learning your faith would be a terrific idea.

 

[fix]

Wow…maybe I do not belong on this page. I am a practicing Catholic who also believes in the rights of all human beings, including gays. I live by Christ’s words of, “Love thy neighbor as thyself” and he did not say “unless they are gay.” Also, I believe final judgment is in the hands of God and not human beings. Jesus taught us to love one another and to treat others as we would like to be treated.

I have compassion for gays and support all of God’s people. To me, the prejudice against gays is no different than the prejudices against blacks, asians, hispanics, women, etc.

Social justice is very important to me.

Like I said, maybe I do need to leave my church that I love so dearly.

Instead of leaving why not submit to Christ through His Church as He desires?

No one is denying any authentic rights to anyone.

 

[fix]

You can’t leave the Church to the intolerant. If you do - they win.

How do you define intolerant?

 

[fibromom]

So do all practicing, believing Catholics, including all those of us “on this page” (and on this thread).

The Church rejects all unjust discrimination & prejudice. It’s in there in the Catechism. The Church specifically rejects unjust discrimination against homosexuals. That is also explicitly stated in the Catechism.
The Church supports and promotes the just and proper differentiation of the sin vs. the person.
The Church supports and promotes the just and proper differentiation between the fixed Truth of traditional male-female marriage and the lie of a faux marriage based on an attachment to sin (heterosexual cohabitation, homosexual unions, polygamy, etc.)

The Church is no more or less compassionate about the sins of heterosexuals than about the sins of homosexuals.

Social justice does not include the deconstruction of traditional marriage.

Or maybe learning your faith would be a terrific idea.

Wow, really??? How rude of you to say “Or maybe learning your faith would be a terrific idea”.

I thought this was a Christian place where I could calmly and respectfully post my thoughts.

Evidently, I was wrong.

How Un-Christ like of you.

 

[fibromom]

Instead of leaving why not submit to Christ through His Church as He desires?

No one is denying any authentic rights to anyone.

. I am familiar with the Catechism’s teaching and I’m glad to see that some others on here are, as well. I do not think there are a lot of Catholics who really know about the section of treating homosexuals with dignity and respect.

I, however, take it one step further and to be honest, I do not see homosexuality as a sin. I am a happily married woman with children just so you know this is not a self promoting stance.

I am aware of the teachings in Leviticus regarding homosexuality but also am aware that in Leviticus there are teachings about not eating pork, wearing mixed fabrics together, etc. that clearly do not apply to our modern world.

I love my church but find that it has gotten more and more politically based and that is very difficult for me.

I do think that being allowed to marry the person you love and are dovoted to is an “authentic right” for all human beings.

These are my authentic feelings and beliefs.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Wow, really??? How rude of you to say “Or maybe learning your faith would be a terrific idea”.

I thought this was a Christian place where I could calmly and respectfully post my thoughts.

And I respectfully reminded you that your statements about your Church were thoroughly inaccurate, and that you are basing your “thoughts” on error. When you correct your error through reading, then you will no longer have to be concerned about whether you should leave a Church which doesn’t state what was (rudely ) attributed to it in your previous post.

No one who is confirming your errors has a “Christian” attitude about your Church.

 

[fibromom]

And I respectfully reminded you that your statements about your Church were thoroughly inaccurate, and that you are basing your “thoughts” on error. When you correct your error through reading, then you will no longer have to be concerned about whether you should leave a Church which doesn’t state what was (rudely ) attributed to it in your previous post.

No one who is confirming your errors has a “Christian” attitude about your Church.

Gee, thank you Elizabeth. You are my Christian role model. Thank you so much for clearing all of that up. I will get right to work on correcting my errors.

“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?” Matthew 7:3

 

[rlg94086]

. I am familiar with the Catechism’s teaching and I’m glad to see that some others on here are, as well. I do not think there are a lot of Catholics who really know about the section of treating homosexuals with dignity and respect.

I, however, take it one step further and to be honest, I do not see homosexuality as a sin. I am a happily married woman with children just so you know this is not a self promoting stance.

I am aware of the teachings in Leviticus regarding homosexuality but also am aware that in Leviticus there are teachings about not eating pork, wearing mixed fabrics together, etc. that clearly do not apply to our modern world.

I love my church but find that it has gotten more and more politically based and that is very difficult for me.

I do think that being allowed to marry the person you love and are dovoted to is an “authentic right” for all human beings.

These are my authentic feelings and beliefs.

If you mean homosexual acts, then you are at odds with the Church on the subject. I recommend prayer and further reading to understand the complete reason, rather than just citing Leviticus. Try reading John Paul II’s Theology of the Body.

 

[Elizabeth502]

I do not think there are a lot of Catholics who really know about the section of treating homosexuals with dignity and respect.

Then those Catholics are not well read, which is probably over half of Catholics today.

I do not see homosexuality as a sin.

As Catholics all of us are bound to conform ourselves to Church teachings regarding morality and sin, whether that makes us comfortable or uncomfortable. We have no authority to develop an opposing moral code, regardless of what is politcally popular and current outside the Church, in society.

I am aware of the teachings in Leviticus regarding homosexuality but also am aware that in Leviticus there are teachings about not eating pork, wearing mixed fabrics together, etc. that clearly do not apply to our modern world.

But personal morality clearly does apply, and Jesus Himself confirmed the personal moral code (actually made it more rigorous, not less so). And the Church acts on Jesus’ authority, by extension. The fact that you imply otherwise reveals lack of knowledge of your faith, whether you think it’s “Christian” to be told that or not.

The dietary laws were not what Jesus came to confirm, but rather the core morality of the Mosaic code.

These are my authentic feelings and beliefs.

Authenticity regarding morality resides with the Church which Jesus founded.

 

[fix]

. I am familiar with the Catechism’s teaching and I’m glad to see that some others on here are, as well. I do not think there are a lot of Catholics who really know about the section of treating homosexuals with dignity and respect.

I, however, take it one step further and to be honest, I do not see homosexuality as a sin. I am a happily married woman with children just so you know this is not a self promoting stance.

I am aware of the teachings in Leviticus regarding homosexuality but also am aware that in Leviticus there are teachings about not eating pork, wearing mixed fabrics together, etc. that clearly do not apply to our modern world.

I love my church but find that it has gotten more and more politically based and that is very difficult for me.

I do think that being allowed to marry the person you love and are dovoted to is an “authentic right” for all human beings.

These are my authentic feelings and beliefs.

First there is difference between the old ceremonial law and the moral law. The issue about pork and such has no relationship to sexual morality.

Also, The Church’s doctrine regarding this issue is thus based, not on isolated phrases for facile theological argument, but on the solid foundation of a constant Biblical testimony.

You have not stated why you hold these beliefs? Two brothers may claim love and devotion. Is it politics to conclude they have no right to “marry”?

 

[Elizabeth502]

Gee, thank you Elizabeth. You are my Christian role model. Thank you so much for clearing all of that up. I will get right to work on correcting my errors.

I’m not “correcting” your personal morality is, fibromom. that’s what Jesus was referring to in this quote:

“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?” Matthew 7:3

He wasn’t referring to information. What you have posted is intellectual error, not moral error (what Jesus was referring to), and as your sister, and for the sake of those lurking on this forum who may get an incorrect picture of Roman Catholicism from what others incorrectly say, I am bound to correct that error. I do not accuse you of sin. I and others here correct you on error.