Obama Excoriates Republican Obsession With The Term ‘Radical Islam’

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KEP1983 said:
And why should we accept your assumption that “mainstream” Muslims read the Quran like you do? How do you know that they “mainstream” is ideologically similar to western values?
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Like I just said, you don’t have to accept mine or anyone else’s interpretation of the Koran. All you have to do is realize that it is harder to fight 1.6 billion people than to fight 12,000 people, and that there is no advantage to alienating 1.6 billion people.
 
KEP1983 said:
And why should we accept your assumption that “mainstream” Muslims read the Quran like you do? How do you know that they “mainstream” is ideologically similar to western values?
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Muslims are human beings, not orcs. Most want peace. But let me ask you this; how do you feel when you hear that a Muslim kills someone, either in your country or abroad? Do you feel anger? Do you feel that they are a threat to your way of life that must be stopped?

Now ask yourself, how would you feel if you were in their shoes. How would you feel if someone you loved died in a drone attack and their killers seemed to think that so long as the terrorist died, the ends justified the means? How would you feel, when your news shows images of crying mothers and ruined villages?

Muslim’s aren’t become radicalized because they are inherently evil. They are becoming radicalized because they are angry. They are becoming radicalized because they feel we are a threat to their way of life and must be stopped.

If America is really interested in stopping terrorism, we need to stop looking the other way when Saudi Arabia does something wrong, all while wagging our fingers (and sometimes, imposing sanctions) on other countries that do the same thing. And we have to admit, even if we never intended, we created the atmosphere were terrorism breeds.
 
Calling the terrorism carried out by radical Islamic terrorists by accurate (though politically incorrect) terms does not turn a law abiding moderate Muslim into a gun wielding jihadist. Words have meaning. To eventually deal with the threat we must first understand the nature of the threat. Pretending that the motivation for committing the acts does not have a religious component is as effective as closing our eyes and hoping it goes away.
 
Darryl1958 said:
Worse, by aligning himself to the Muslim Brotherhood and Iran, he has aligned himself to the radical Islamists.
If Obama limited himself to sympathy to Islam in general, then he would be quite willing to align himself with Republicans and patriots who can identify Islamists as the enemy.

But for Obama, Islamists are not the enemy. They are the ones that Obama supports.
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When exactly did Obama align himself with the Muslim Brotherhood, or Iran, or racidal Islamists? Fair warning: I take the word “aligning” seriously. Merely executing a treaty with some organization or state, even if you think it wasn’t a good treaty, is not “aligning” oneself with it.
 
I_trust said:
Calling the terrorism carried out by radical Islamic terrorists by accurate (though politically incorrect) terms does not turn a law abiding moderate Muslim into a gun wielding jihadist. Words have meaning. To eventually deal with the threat we must first understand the nature of the threat. Pretending that the motivation for committing the acts does not have a religious component is as effective as closing our eyes and hoping it goes away.
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You are assuming a fact not in evidence - that the motivation for terrorism has a significant religious component.
 
Expatreprocedit said:
When exactly did Obama align himself with the Muslim Brotherhood, or Iran, or racidal Islamists? Fair warning: I take the word “aligning” seriously. Merely executing a treaty with some organization or state, even if you think it wasn’t a good treaty, is not “aligning” oneself with it.
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He aligned himself with the MB in Egypt, and the Arab Spring.

I take the word aligning seriously too, and that is why I find his policy so repugnant.
For Iran it went back as far as the Green Revolution., and his sucking up to the ayatollahs even back then.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
You are assuming a fact not in evidence - that the motivation for terrorism has a significant religious component.
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The jihadists do not deny their own religious motivation.
Why is there such resistance to recognizing the threat for what it is…

Yes, I believe we need to examine our actions and the anti-American sediment it might create
-but that does not justify their actions

Yes, I believe that most Muslims are not radical terrorists
-but that does not negate the fact that radical Islamic terrorists exist, And to say that their motivation is not connected with their own declarations of jihad is nonsensical.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
You are assuming a fact not in evidence - that the motivation for terrorism has a significant religious component.
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Doesn’t it? - I’m never quite sure these days.

Raheel Raza who is actually a practitioner of Islam but clings to Liberal values seems to think so.

**By The Numbers - The Untold Story of Muslim Opinions & Demographics **
youtube.com/watch?v=pSPvnFDDQHk
 
I’m just not convinced that a blanket ban on all Muslim immigration will do much to thwart terrorist attacks on our soil. We have as much of a problem of Muslim, Natural Born American citizens committing terrorist attacks on our soil as we do Muslim immigrants committing terrorist attacks on our soil. Our most recent terrorist attack was committed by an American Citizen.

Starting with the September 11, 2001:

Terrorist attacks by natural born Muslim Americans
  1. February 16-23, 2002–John Allen Muhammed (Beltway Sniper), Born in Illinois
  2. June 1, 2009—Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad(Little Rock recruiting office shooting), Born in Tennessee
  3. November 5, 2009— Nidal Hasan (Fort Hood Shooting), Born in Virginia
  4. October 23 2014— Zale Thompson (Queens Hatchet Attack)
  5. May 3, 2015---- Elton Simpson, born in Illinois; Nadir Soofi, Born in Texas; Abdul Kareem, Born in Pennsylvania (Curtis Culwell Center Attackers).
  6. December 2, 2015— Syed Rizwan Farook (San Bernardino Shooter), Born in Illinois
  7. June 12, 2016—Omar Mateen (Orlando Night club shooter), Born in New York
Terrorist attacks by Muslim Non-Americans
  1. September 11, 2001—19 perpetrators
  2. July 4, 2002-- LA airport attack, Hesham Mohamed Hadayet, Egyptian National
  3. April 15, 2013–Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnev (Boston Marathon Bombers) Born in Krzygstan and USSR
  4. July 16 2015—Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez, (Chattanooga Shootings), Born in Kuwait.
  5. December 2, 2015—Tashfeen Malik (San Bernardino Shooter), Born in Russia
Then I could make another colossal list of terrorist attacks committed by Natural Born American Terrorists on our soil, since September 11. (The 2013 Wichita Bombing attempt, The Colorado Movie Theater Massacre, The Newtown Massacre…to name a few, but if I were to make a list it’d be way too long).

In all honesty I just don’t see how a blanket ban on all Muslim immigration will make us safer.
 
I_trust said:
The jihadists do not deny their own religious motivation.
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First of all, I was talking about terrorists, not jihadists. Secondly, terrorists start out angry for some other reason, and adopt a religious narrative to give their perversion some legitimacy. They may even believe it. That doesn’t mean you should believe it, or give their perversion that legitimacy.
 
Darryl1958 said:
He aligned himself with the MB in Egypt, and the Arab Spring.

I take the word aligning seriously too, and that is why I find his policy so repugnant.
For Iran it went back as far as the Green Revolution., and his sucking up to the ayatollahs even back then.
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Apparently you don’t take “aligning” very seriously. A temporary common objective does not an alignment make. Nor does nonintervention in a country’s internal affairs.

You may think these were mistakes by Obama, and I might agree with you, but you have no right to assume bad intent.
 
281 million or so Muslims believe in whippings and amputations as punishment.
Anywhere between 26 and 42 percent of Muslims under the age of 30 in Western countries can justify suicide bombings.
This is to say that the Americans who are up in arms over the waterboarding of three Islamists are hypocrites, to the extent that they dismiss radicalism in Islam as a little piffling nothing, and a Republican obsession.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
First of all, I was talking about terrorists, not jihadists. Secondly, terrorists start out angry for some other reason, and adopt a religious narrative to give their perversion some legitimacy. They may even believe it. That doesn’t mean you should believe it, or give their perversion that legitimacy.
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But you were quoting my statement about jihadists (I clearly used the word jihadist) and trying to maintain that a religious motivation was not established.
 
Darryl1958 said:
281 million or so Muslims believe in whippings and amputations as punishment.
Anywhere between 26 and 42 percent of Muslims under the age of 30 in Western countries can justify suicide bombings.
This is to say that the Americans who are up in arms over the waterboarding of three Islamists are hypocrites, to the extent that they dismiss radicalism in Islam as a little piffling nothing, and a Republican obsession.
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Are you suggesting that Bishop Cantu is a hypocrite for being concerned about torture?

en.radiovaticana.va/news/2014/12/13/us_bishops_say_torture_a_betrayal_of_nations_values/1114614
 
LeafByNiggle said:
First of all, I was talking about terrorists, not jihadists. Secondly, terrorists start out angry for some other reason, and adopt a religious narrative to give their perversion some legitimacy. They may even believe it. That doesn’t mean you should believe it, or give their perversion that legitimacy.
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They may be angry to being with, but they still adopt the religion. I don’t see any justification for assuming their religious motivations are just a pretense.
 
Expatreprocedit said:
Apparently you don’t take “aligning” very seriously. A temporary common objective does not an alignment make. Nor does nonintervention in a country’s internal affairs.

You may think these were mistakes by Obama, and I might agree with you, but you have no right to assume bad intent.
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I take it very seriously.
Obama thinks he is one of the good guys, and that if he is just nice to the MB and Iran then they will love us.

This is what passes as wisdom on the left. People think that they are being good when they engage in self-criticism, which in effect is criticism of American policy, and more specifically criticism of the right. They think that they are being good by being friendly to the enemies of America, who ‘after all, have a point’.

If only Obama had aligned himself with someone like Sisi, or the democratic forces of the Green Revolution. If only Obama had shown some moral clarity of who really needs support and encouragement. Human rights in the ME are weak, and the forces fighting for those rights are in constant danger of being crushed.
That is what makes Obama so repugnant. By aligning himself with the MB, and being coolly indifferent to people like Sisi, people who actually called on the grand teaching mosques to get with the program and reform, the possibility of civil rights emerging in Muslim countries have gone from weak to non-existent.

And he is still at it, openly wondering what the point is to actually identifying who it is that is committing these atrocities by name, who it is that is leading the charge to kill homosexuals, and women who have sex outside of marriage, and whip and amputate and behead as part of sharia.
By not naming Islamists as the enemy, the left also is not able to identify the small, still voices for civil rights that exist in the ME as our friends, as people who are worthy of all the support that we can give.

Let’s face it. People like Hirsi Ali are not natural allies of conservatives. People advocating for civil rights in the House of Islam are liberals, and would be the natural allies of liberals in the West, people who speak the same language.

I find it repugnant that it is liberals, sweetie pies like Obama who have abandoned their natural allies in the ME, and aligned themselves with the worst kind of scum that exists anywhere in the world today.

Don;t fool yourself, I take the word alignment very seriously, and I am using it in exactly the right context.

Now go vote for Hillary and more of the same. That is what Western liberals are all about, after all.🤷
 
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