Obama has won

[iloveangels]

Not all the lawsuits, no. What can the Church do? Will the IRS show up the doors of Churches if they do not go along with it

I assure you that this will be THE topic of conversation in every chancery in the USA at 8AM tomorrow morning. Dioceses have lawyers and they will figure out what they have to do. I expect that people will be laid off or changed from full-time to part-time and that some things will be scaled back or closed over the course of the next year. Probably some things will also be sold.

 

[_Abyssinia]

I hope you’re right.

I still remember what Justice Ginsburg said

becketfund.org/key-quotes-from-today-decision-that-signal-the-courts-willingness-to-strike-down-the-hhs-mandate/

“A mandate to purchase a particular product would be unconstitutional if, for example, the edict impermissibly abridged the freedom of speech, interfered with the free exercise of religion, or infringed on a liberty interest protected by the Due Process Clause.” Again, that is just what the HHS mandate does: It “interfere with the free exercise of religion” by forcing religious organizations across the country to violate their religious beliefs.(SC Opinion Part II which was joined by Breyer, Sotomayor and Kagan. p 29)

 

[_Abyssinia]

Yes.

I assure you that this will be THE topic of conversation in every chancery in the USA at 8AM tomorrow morning. Dioceses have lawyers and they will figure out what they have to do. I expect that people will be laid off or changed from full-time to part-time and that some things will be scaled back or closed.

I hope to hear soon what their plans are moving forward. I would expect the HHS mandate in communist China not in the US

 

[iloveangels]

I still remember what Justice Ginsburg said

becketfund.org/key-quotes-from-today-decision-that-signal-the-courts-willingness-to-strike-down-the-hhs-mandate/

This has already been decided by the Supreme Court. The mandate is now law.

 

[Listener]

I assure you that this will be THE topic of conversation in every chancery in the USA at 8AM tomorrow morning. Dioceses have lawyers and they will figure out what they have to do. I expect that people will be laid off or changed from full-time to part-time and that some things will be scaled back or closed over the course of the next year. Probably some things will also be sold.

I don’t see why they would have to close anything. They could simply decline to provide medical insurance and pay the government $2,000 for each person instead. The employees could then buy their own medical insurance. Remember, no one is supposed to be denied insurance because of a pre-existing condition. If the employees are too poor to buy their own insurance, the government will supposedly help them with the cost. Anyway, that’s how it’s supposed to work.

 

[iloveangels]

I don’t see why they would have to close anything. They could simply decline to provide medical insurance and pay the government $2,000 for each person instead. The employees could then buy their own medical insurance. Remember, no one is supposed to be denied insurance because of a pre-existing condition. If the employees are too poor to buy their own insurance, the government will supposedly help them with the cost. Anyway, that’s how it’s supposed to work.

That’s one option, but it’s very expensive.
Another option, a more attractive option, is to make employees all part-time or reduce the number of employees to less than 50 people (although less than 50 people is not possible for dioceses because they have too many parishes to cover and priests are included in this number).
And the best option perhaps, is to fire all permanent employees that deal with the general public (except priests who deal specifically with Catholics) and replace everyone else with independent contractors who will be obedient to the church. Thus getting two birds with one stone, as long as it’s necessary to get one anyway.

 

[Ohana]

Republicans would get more votes if they focused more social justice instead of the economy.

I agree. I had a very hard time with the Bishops “letter” because of this. As a corollary, if they focused more on social justice, it has to be believable, not manipulation.

 

[iloveangels]

I agree. I had a very hard time with the Bishops “letter” because of this. As a corollary, if they focused more on social justice, it has to be believable, not manipulation.

We’ll see how this fussiness plays out when the HHS mandate takes effect.

 

[randirhoades]

I voted, Oh, yes I did. I voted for the right man. And I’m proud of who I voted for and will always vote for. I voted for JESUS.

Love ya’ll lots,
Sheila is my real name and love and hugs, plus blessings from the Almighty Father who is really head of this Country to every person on this planet.

Side note: Keep the faith…we got through four years with God, better believe we will get through this with God also. We need to STAND up for our RIGHTS against abortion, equality in marriage and more. Christians should not be passive. That’s how prayer got thrown out of schools. That is my belief. And I’m going to do it.

 

[_Abyssinia]

I agree. I had a very hard time with the Bishops “letter” because of this. As a corollary, if they focused more on social justice, it has to be believable, not manipulation.

Republicans would get more votes if they focused more social justice instead of the economy.

Denying religious freedom denies social justice. Foundation of Catholic social justice is sanctity of human life

 

[iloveangels]

I don’t see why they would have to close anything. They could simply decline to provide medical insurance and pay the government $2,000 for each person instead. The employees could then buy their own medical insurance. Remember, no one is supposed to be denied insurance because of a pre-existing condition. If the employees are too poor to buy their own insurance, the government will supposedly help them with the cost. Anyway, that’s how it’s supposed to work.

The other thing no one seems to be realizing here is the amount of money that we get for contracts that we have with the federal government. Those people are hired by the Catholic church but work under conditions set by the federal government to do work that otherwise would be done by federal employees or other bidders. We are involved in a lot of this stuff.

The government has given us these contracts in the past because Catholic institutions tend to be more efficient and better than other institutions, and we are often the cheaper bidder. The bishops have liked this arrangement because it makes the Church look bigger and more prosperous than it really is. The Church is really a LOT smaller than almost anyone thinks it is. Only 17’% of Catholics actually even bother to come to church weekly.

All this is a very big piece of this HHS mandate issue. That’s all going to have to go away, or be totally modified.

 

[Ohana]

We’ll see how this fussiness plays out when the HHS mandate takes effect.

I expect for there to be some closure of Catholic hospitals/schools if the HHS mandate is not rescinded or modified. Hang on, its going to be a bumpy ride!!!

 

[iloveangels]

I expect for there to be some closure of Catholic hospitals/schools if the HHS mandate is not rescinded or modified. Hang on, its going to be a bumpy ride!!!

Yes, it is. There are going to be a lot of changes.

Schools may close. Hospitals are more likely to be sold for what we can get out of them. Either that or their lay boards will take them secular and sever the ties they have with the Church. Some of that has happened already, but expect it to escalate. When you see a hospital with a St. name, it won’t necessarily be a Catholic hospital after this year.

 

[Trellot]

I’m incredibly saddened by the Obama victory this evening…However, I’m looking at this as God’s will for this country. We will suffer much in the coming years, because we have done much to offend our precious Lord.

Amen.

 

[NeedsMercy]

:clapping::extrahappy:

Whew! Thought I was the only Democrat in the bunch…

 

[iloveangels]

Whew! Thought I was the only Democrat in the bunch…

We’ve got bigger problems to solve now. This isn’t over for Catholics. We’ve got the HHS mandate to figure out.

 

[_Abyssinia]

This has already been decided by the Supreme Court. The mandate is now law.

But they were not assesing the HHS mandate?

 

[iloveangels]

But they were not assesing the HHS mandate?

Yes, they were.

There are a few other challenges that haven’t been thrown out of court yet, but they won’t be settled for quite a while.

Abyssinia, this is now law.

 

[Tingo]

It seems to me that the Bishops and other Catholics who fought to stop Obama have created a worse situation than had they not fought at all. They have been exposed as weak, unable to deliver even the faithful, even on matters identified of as supreme importance. Other leaders, once receptive to the Church because they feared its electoral influence, will now be less enthusiastic to defend Church positions. Church opponents will be strengthened on their resolve. It will seem safer to directly attack Church policies and interests. I understand that the bishops did not directly enter this fight, but their position was well understood by friend and foe. The Church has played hard and lost.

 

[jeannetherese]

Republicans would get more votes if they focused more social justice instead of the economy.

Isn’t the right to life the basis upon which one might further experience social justice?
It amazes me that the Democrats do not see abortion as an act of denying civil rights to an extremely vulnerable and thus far, unprotected group.

I’m praying that members of both parties will some day speak up for women, arguing that they should not feel pressured to kill their children in order to ‘achieve economic success’ in our world.
Eliminating those who stand in the way of resource acquisition seems so barbaric.

I do agree that an economic platform that encouraged those with more to support those struggling might have been helpful, both to the Romney campaign and to the image of the Republican party in general.