Obama has won

[waterbrook]

I don’t know how you get from pro-life Catholic to nuclear arsenal in one short paragraph, waterbrook. That’s the loosest-strung-together thing I’ve seen in a long time, and I’ve seen some loosely-strung-together stuff.

Mm… You come across to me as being quite angry. Perhaps you should read my post again.
I am only making the point that there are lots of issues here, not just abortion and abortion is not the only issue related to life, death and justice. It is easy to focus on the abortion issue only and avoid having to wrestle with other issues as well.who knows how god will work within the USA.but I’m sure he will remain faithful to those who are faithful to him.

 

[Crescentinus]

Can you type them again with some explanation? I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I’m a pretty good guesser.

The one about the HHS mandate?
Since the Catholic Church does not approve of the HHS mandate (since as we all know, the HHS mandate has contraceptive coverage and Catholics are not even exempted from it), then the Obama administration can “solve” the problem of defiance by Catholics by arresting Catholics who would not approve of the HHS mandate. If arresting Catholics would not be enough, then the Obama administration can pretty much outlaw Catholicism.
Also, anti-Catholicism is the “last acceptable prejudice” in America. Obama can use that to his advantage as far as the HHS mandate goes.

As far as the whole “controlling population” thing is concerned, I’m talking about how the Obama administration is trying to shove contraceptives here in the Philippines.

 

[Chris-WA]

The empire fell, but there were still people living in the city of Rome, Chris-WA, just fewer of them with less influence and far less wealth. There have been residents of Rome since about 800BC.

Now I have no idea what your point was to begin with. I personally would like to see America not only endure but also thrive again. Unfortunately we are headed down the wrong path. Here are some of the things I point to demonstrating our decline as a nation and society over the last 30 years:

1. Expelling God from all public venues
2. Legalizing the murder of millions of babies in the womb
3. Divorce rate at 50% +
4. Destroying the stable and nuturing nuclear family of father, mother, and children
5. Legalizing homosexual “marriage”
6. Attacking religious freedom, especially for Christians
7. More babies being born to single parents than to married ones
8. Abandoning religious faith and practice
9. Running up out-of-control debt

There are others to list as well, but you get the point. The election today only pushes us futher down this path.

 

[iloveangels]

Mm… You come across to me as being quite angry. Perhaps you should read my post again.
I am only making the point that there are lots of issues here, not just abortion and abortion is not the only issue related to life, death and justice. It is easy to focus on the abortion issue only and avoid having to wrestle with other issues as well.who knows how god will work within the USA.but I’m sure he will remain faithful to those who are faithful to him.

Yeah, yeah, I know. I’ve heard it all already. This is really old and the election is over with. Now to deal with the consequences, aka the HHS mandate and all the carnage it’s going to cause.

If you really think all the issues are interchangeable: scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2271.htm

Do you own a catechism? More importantly, do you know what it says?

 

[iloveangels]

Now I have no idea what your point was to begin with. I personally would like to see America not only endure but also thrive again. Unfortunately we are headed down the wrong path. Here are some of the things I point to demonstrating our decline as a nation and society over the last 30 years:

1. Expelling God from all public venues
2. Legalizing the murder of millions of babies in the womb
3. Divorce rate at 50% +
4. Destroying the stable and nuturing nuclear family of father, mother, and children
5. Legalizing homosexual “marriage”
6. Attacking religious freedom, especially for Christians
7. More babies being born to single parents than to married ones
8. Abandoning religious faith and practice
9. Running up out-of-control debt

There are others to list as well, but you get the point. The election today only pushes us futher down this path.

My comment was in answer to someone who said we were going down the same path as the Romans when they fell. That’s not an outrageous parallel. We have a lot of similarities to the Romans, and no governmental system in the history of the world has ever lasted forever. I really don’t expect this one to last forever either and that’s only a recognition of history and how things really work. We are into the BREAD & CIRCUSES thing just like they were.

 

[Chris-WA]

This is an interesting observation , not least because this is something I see here on this forum a lot…people wanting their priest or the church to make their decisions for them rather than wrestle with them themselves, in the company of the church. It is very easy to say that one candidate was pro life and therefore one should vote on this one issue. I’m not in the USA nor am I catholic but I am personally glad that it is not Romney in charge of the USA nuclear arsenal…which could wipe out whole nations.

You are right that we should not vote on only one issue, but as Catholics there are certain non-negotiables that we must adhere to be faithful Catholics. Among those are the life issues like abortion and euthanasia. And not all issues are of equal importance. As Catholics, we are supposed to prioritize them in order of most important to least important. The life issues are at the top of the list, and economic ones are of less importance. Many people (even Catholics) try to equivocate them, but they are not equal no matter how much we may try to rationalize the matter.

I often here Catholics who support pro-abortion democrats say they do so because of the candidate’s stance on the poor or other social justice issues. I would simply counter with my previous statement that one must prioritize the issues since they are not all equal. In this case, it’s more important to protect the unborn than it is to ensure the government provides certain services to the poor. Both are important, but one would have to trump the other as abortion is considered to be murder.

 

[Chris-WA]

My comment was in answer to someone who said we were going down the same path as the Romans when they fell. That’s not an outrageous parallel. We have a lot of similarities to the Romans, and no governmental system in the history of the world has ever lasted forever. I really don’t expect this one to last forever either and that’s only a recognition of history and how things really work. We are into the BREAD & CIRCUSES thing just like they were.

Got it. That does make more sense to me now.

 

[iloveangels]

The one about the HHS mandate?
Since the Catholic Church does not approve of the HHS mandate (since as we all know, the HHS mandate has contraceptive coverage and Catholics are not even exempted from it), then the Obama administration can “solve” the problem of defiance by Catholics by arresting Catholics who would not approve of the HHS mandate. If arresting Catholics would not be enough, then the Obama administration can pretty much outlaw Catholicism.
Also, anti-Catholicism is the “last acceptable prejudice” in America. Obama can use that to his advantage as far as the HHS mandate goes.

As far as the whole “controlling population” thing is concerned, I’m talking about how the Obama administration is trying to shove contraceptives here in the Philippines.

Ok, you’re in the Philippines. I understand now. Probably you’re going to see more of the same from our government. Sorry about that. Many of us don’t like it, but as you can see, Americans are not being paragons of virtue these days. We’re pretty corrupt as a nation and that’s one thing. But our government is separate from our religious stuff here. Only about 25% of the population is nominally Catholic, and only about 20% of that really shows up for mass weekly etc. The church here is pretty lackadaisical. We don’t have the numbers, the history or the zeal that you guys have in the Philippines.

I think that the federal government here is more likely to try to wear us down than pick on us openly. Picking on us openly gets backlash and Americans are very legalistic.

Anti-Catholicism is the last acceptable prejudice, yes. However, Catholics don’t help that any with their goofy thoughtless behavior. It’s easier to be prejudiced against someone if they’re out there more or less asking for it, making themselves a handy target. There have been some high profile fiascos lately that have made us targets and that’s not helping any. We can stand up for our faith, but that doesn’t mean we have to wear a “KICK ME” sign.

 

[Crescentinus]

Ok, you’re in the Philippines. I understand now. Probably you’re going to see more of the same from our government. Sorry about that. Many of us don’t like it, but as you can see, Americans are not being paragons of virtue these days. We’re pretty corrupt.

I think that the federal government here is more likely to try to wear us down than pick on us openly. Picking on us openly gets backlash. Anti-Catholicism is the last acceptable prejudice, yes. However, Catholics don’t help that any with their goofy thoughtless behavior. It’s easier to be prejudiced against someone if they’re out there more or less asking for it, making themselves a handy target. There have been some high profile fiascos lately and that’s not helping any.

Try telling that to some of my countrymen, and they will not believe you. Try telling that to my mom and she will not believe you! She, like some of my countrymen, are still under the delusion that the United States is a good country.

Really?
In reality, anti-Catholicism in the United States is now the most acceptable of all prejudices. Why? Because no one would dare retort at such prejudice. The so-called “intellectuals” support it, the media supports it, Obama supports it.
With the HHS mandate, the more liberal-progressive anti-Catholics will have another weapon to bash all of us Catholics over the head with. And with anti-Catholicism being the most acceptable prejudice, then the HHS mandate will get more support in order to attack Catholics further. I do believe that Obama is a lot worse in his anti-Catholicism than the American Know-Nothing party of the 19th century and the Ku Klux Klan of the 20th century. And yes, the Ku Klux Klan of the 20th century (to differentiate the KKK of the late 19th century) is also very anti-Catholic.

 

[Trellot]

Let’s understand something, this very minute. Obama will be unchecked for the next four years. His last four years, look and feel as IF they were unchecked! The American Media has intimate relations with our president Obama, and they help to mold and condition American minds, young and old…tonight they declared victory because they did what they intended to do. Catholics that believe in what our Holy Father is saying about our country and about our future, need to start living their lives as Christ intended.

 

[iloveangels]

Let’s understand something, this very minute. Obama will be unchecked for the next four years. His last four years, look and feel as IF they were unchecked! The American Media has intimate relations with our president Obama, and they help to mold and condition American minds, young and old…tonight they declared victory because they did what they intended to do. Catholics that believe in what our Holy Father is saying about our country and about our future, need to start living their lives as Christ intended.

I hear you, Trellot. We’ll see if that’s what happens. Maybe the Catholic Church in America will get serious and stop playing silly games and maybe it won’t. Maybe the HHS mandate is enough to shock Catholics into behaving like Catholics. We’ll see.

 

[Tingo]

Another suggestion is to fly the Confederate flag. That will upset the liberal-progressives.

That would be the Confederacy that was based on slavery? That symbolizes your Catholic faith how?

 

[Crescentinus]

That would be the Confederacy that was based on slavery? That symbolizes your Catholic faith how?

Simple. That would anger Obama’s supporters.
Oh wait, you just gave me a better idea. Why not fly the flag of the Vatican instead of the Confederate flag?

 

[Inego_de_Loyola]

That would be the Confederacy that was based on slavery? That symbolizes your Catholic faith how?

It wasn’t based on slavery. South Carolina seceded over economic concerns, mainly tariffs designed to push merchant traffic to northern ports. The three main concerns in order of importance were I) The powers of the federal government, especially in regard to taxing and otherwise acting in favor of some states more than others.
II) The states right to self govern according to the will of the people. (See the catholic teachings on subsidiarity.) III) Lastly and least, the perceived right to hold slaves.

The only state whose act of secession even mentions slavery is Alabama.

 

[Trellot]

I hear you, Trellot. We’ll see if that’s what happens. Maybe the Catholic Church in America will get serious and stop playing silly games and maybe it won’t. Maybe the HHS mandate is enough to shock Catholics into behaving like Catholics. We’ll see.

The good news is, that the American Bishops spoke out in unison regarding the HHS mandate. We need to keep this mindset, and guard it! Because the days ahead, to me, look dark and paltry.

 

[jeannetherese]

Yes, it is. There are going to be a lot of changes.

Schools may close. Hospitals are more likely to be sold for what we can get out of them. Either that or their lay boards will take them secular and sever the ties they have with the Church. Some of that has happened already, but expect it to escalate. When you see a hospital with a St. name, it won’t necessarily be a Catholic hospital after this year.

Mightn’t schools be able to prove their Catholic identity, and show that,the teachers are Catholic and tasked with teaching students the faith?
I wonder if they might qualify for an exemption under such circumstances?

 

[iloveangels]

The good news is, that the American Bishops spoke out in unison regarding the HHS mandate. We need to keep this mindset, and guard it! Because the days ahead, to me, look dark and paltry.

Well, I’m sure this will be the main topic of conversation in every chancery and rectory in the USA about 3 hours from now. I’m not sure the enormity of it will hit home right away, but it will when they call the lawyers and try to figure out what to do. And then we will see what happens next.

 

[iloveangels]

Mightn’t schools be able to prove their Catholic identity, and show that,the teachers are Catholic and tasked with teaching students the faith?
I wonder if they might qualify for an exemption under such circumstances?

Here are the HHS mandate rules about who gets an exemption. ALL 4 rules must be satisfied to get the exemption. Your guess is as good as mine.

"The exemption is only for a “religious employer,” defined as “one that (1) Has the inculcation of religious values as its purpose; (2) primarily employs persons who share its religious tenets; (3) primarily serves persons who share its religious tenets; and (4) is a non-profit organization under section 6033(a)(1) and section 6033(a)(3)(A)(i) or (iii) of the [Internal Revenue] Code.” HHS notes that these provisions of the Code refer to “churches, their integrated auxiliaries, and conventions or associations of churches, as well as to the exclusively religious activities of any religious order.”

Many Catholic schools have non-Catholic teachers and non-Catholic students.

Catholic schools are also only one type of Catholic institution that is going to get hit by this regulation. Also food banks, soup kitchens, clinics, hospitals, retreat houses, bookstores, and lots more. Anything owned by a diocese, parish or a religious order that has full time employees or members.

 

[Inego_de_Loyola]

That would be the Confederacy that was based on slavery? That symbolizes your Catholic faith how?

It wasn’t based on slavery. South Carolina seceded over economic concerns, mainly tariffs designed to push merchant traffic to northern ports. The three main concerns in order of importance were I) The powers of the federal government, especially in regard to taxing and otherwise acting in favor of some states more than others.
II) The states right to self govern according to the will of the people. (See the catholic teachings on subsidiarity.) III) Lastly and least, the perceived right to hold slaves.

The only state whose act of secession even mentions slavery is Alabama.

 

[Trellot]

Here are the HHS mandate rules about who gets an exemption. ALL 4 rules must be satisfied to get the exemption. Your guess is as good as mine.

"The exemption is only for a “religious employer,” defined as “one that (1) Has the inculcation of religious values as its purpose; (2) primarily employs persons who share its religious tenets; (3) primarily serves persons who share its religious tenets; and (4) is a non-profit organization under section 6033(a)(1) and section 6033(a)(3)(A)(i) or (iii) of the [Internal Revenue] Code.” HHS notes that these provisions of the Code refer to “churches, their integrated auxiliaries, and conventions or associations of churches, as well as to the exclusively religious activities of any religious order.”

Many Catholic schools have non-Catholic teachers and non-Catholic students.

Catholic schools are also only one type of Catholic institution that is going to get hit by this regulation. Also food banks, soup kitchens, clinics, hospitals, retreat houses, bookstores, and lots more. Anything owned by a diocese or a religious order.

I believe, personally, that our American churches, and not just Catholic, need to get out from under the governmental oppression of this tax exempt status. Otherwise, we’re theirs in many respects. I believe that the faithful can keep our church, and that of the faithful non-Catholics, afloat without Uncle Handout’s hand.