Obama plans curbs on guns

[JonNC]

The weeping President again? Why is that non point repeated every page? We get it you absolutely believe the authenticity of his tears. Is it OK some don’t find that a compelling point relevant to anything? He might have had many things on his mind and that day, rightfully so but I won’t repeat my point about Afghanistan. So you would assert his authenticity when we don’t know. How do you know for sure? Convince me.

If this is for me, Gary, I made no statement regarding their authenticity. I only said I would not question his sincerity. I can’t read his heart.
On his desire to eliminate private ownership of firearms, one can read that by his actions, and by the historic position of his philosophical / political ideology. Progressives believe guns in the hands of civilians is a hindrance to their political and governmental goals.

Jon

 

[Leo2014]

I refuse to question the president’s sincerity on the question of his sadness about the deaths from illegal, intentional misuse of firearms. I do question his honesty when he denies his desire to confiscate weapons, and I question why he seems to lack the same deep sadness for the soon to be born human beings who are killed.

Jon

Sadly, Abortion is an issue that Christians have done a poor job in addressing. Roe V Wade is now forty three years old! Honestly, we seem to be further away from any effort to reciprocate this ruling. Even Politicians find this topic a side note to mention at only the appropriate rallies.

However, now look at how we appear to your average secular individual. We will bring up the abortion issue implying that we are doing more to see it eradicated than your non-Christians, but this is not the case. We will state our plights about the moral importance of life, while standing in line to see a movie saturated with violence.

There is nothing Christian about a weapon. Sadly, we have seen that not even in the House of the Lord are we safe from the wrath carried out by a weapon. I personally never want to see weapons carried in a Church with the excuse that we are protecting the congregation. It will just send the wrong message about our faith.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Sadly, Abortion is an issue that Christians have done a poor job in addressing. Roe V Wade is now forty three years old! Honestly, we seem to be further away from any effort to reciprocate this ruling. Even Politicians find this topic a side note to mention at only the appropriate rallies.

However, now look at how we appear to your average secular individual. We will bring up the abortion issue implying that we are doing more to see it eradicated than your non-Christians, but this is not the case. We will state our plights about the moral importance of life, while standing in line to see a movie saturated with violence.

There is nothing Christian about a weapon. Sadly, we have seen that not even in the House of the Lord are we safe from the wrath carried out by a weapon. I personally never want to see weapons carried in a Church with the excuse that we are protecting the congregation. It will just send the wrong message about our faith.

Totally agree! Great post!

 

[JonNC]

Sadly, Abortion is an issue that Christians have done a poor job in addressing. Roe V Wade is now forty three years old! Honestly, we seem to be further away from any effort to reciprocate this ruling. Even Politicians find this topic a side note to mention at only the appropriate rallies.

However, now look at how we appear to your average secular individual. We will bring up the abortion issue implying that we are doing more to see it eradicated than your non-Christians, but this is not the case. We will state our plights about the moral importance of life, while standing in line to see a movie saturated with violence.

There is nothing Christian about a weapon. Sadly, we have seen that not even in the House of the Lord are we safe from the wrath carried out by a weapon.

Wrath carried out by a weapon? Which weapon do you know that can carry out it’s wrath? Which weapon do you know has a wrath?

I know what you are trying to say, but firearms are just tools. And tools, any kind of tools, can be used for good or for ill. Firearms are often used to feed the poor and families, defend the weak or innocent, and win wars when they must be fought.

The fact is that 90% of violent crime in the United States do not involve firearms, and often they are committed against those who are smaller, weaker, older than the criminal.
If a woman owner of a firearm stops a rapist just one time, it seems to me that’s worthwhile.
Just last week in my area there was a news report of an elderly man who defended his home against burglars with his firearm. That’s a good thing.

I personally never want to see weapons carried in a Church with the excuse that we are protecting the congregation. It will just send the wrong message about our faith.

I absolutely agree with you, but I wonder if Christians in the middle east who are being persecuted and decimated feel the same.
I wonder if the bullet-proof glass of the pope-mobile sends the same message.
It isn’t guns that are evil. They are just tools. They have no wrath to carry out. There is nothing Christian or unchristian about them. They are tools, and whether they are used for good or for ill is up to the users, not the tool itself.

Jon

 

[JonNC]

=Leo2014;13570446]Sadly, Abortion is an issue that Christians have done a poor job in addressing. Roe V Wade is now forty three years old! Honestly, we seem to be further away from any effort to reciprocate this ruling. Even Politicians find this topic a side note to mention at only the appropriate rallies.

I think there are certainly numerous Christians who seem sympathetic to abortion. That’s sad, but there are many Christians that regularly take a stand. The Catholic Church is an indispensable leader in this regard.

However, now look at how we appear to your average secular individual. We will bring up the abortion issue implying that we are doing more to see it eradicated than your non-Christians, but this is not the case. We will state our plights about the moral importance of life, while standing in line to see a movie saturated with violence.

Well, speak for yourself, but the fact that Christians at times seem hypocritical shouldn’t surprise anyone. We are still of the flesh. That’s not an excuse for “what we have done, and what we have left undone”, but it is a reality.
We as Christians, by the grace and power of the Holy Spirit, need to a better job of showing ourselves as an example to the world of God’s love for His creation. I, personally, need to do a better job of this, and confess when I don’t, seeking His grace and absolution.
Owning a firearm is not unchristian. Using one to feed ourselves and others is not unchristian, or defending ourselves or our loved ones or others around us.

Jon

 

[Cathoholic]

The points being raised here are not only being discussed on CAF.

These are timely issues that are part of our national discussion in America.

For example, **here is retired U.S. Navy Commander J.D. Gordon **considering some of these same principles as we have been discussing here on CAF (with minor format changes mine) . . .

Obama cries over guns, then frees more terrorists

**By J.D. Gordon Published January 08, 2016 FoxNews.com **

After President Obama cried while announcing a series of “commonsense executive actions” on gun control, his rare display of emotion stirred plenty of debate.

Would the steps he outlined have prevented any of the recent mass shootings? Why is he circumventing Congress again? Were his tears even real?

All good questions.

Yet here’s another one that we ought to consider: Why would someone cry over gun control and mass shootings while simultaneously freeing more terrorists?. . . .

. . . . The president acknowledged that America’s murder and violent crime rates have steadily declined for years while gun ownership has skyrocketed.

He also recognized the limitations of laws in preventing gun violence, noting “some criminals will be able to get their hands on firearms even if there’s a background check.”. . . .

. . . . He knows our intelligence authorities report that nearly 1 in 3 ex-detainees are confirmed or suspected of returning to terrorism, yet just this month he’s releasing 17 more hardcore jihadists.

And of the 107 left, we’re talking about Bin Laden bodyguards, bomb makers, weapons trainers and other dangerous men still committed to kill Americans. . . .

The whole article is here.

foxnews.com/opinion/2016/01/08/obama-cries-over-guns-then-frees-more-terrorists.html

So these are certainly pertinent discussions.

 

[grotto]

It is rather strange that he would work up a tear to roll down his cheek over his executive order by using the victims of Sandy Hook. Wouldn’t the Chief Executive have had numerous occasions to share in a variety of situations of crisis and tragedy. Wouldn’t he be able to “stiff upper lip” by this time? However, the terrible event of Sandy Hook has been the poster used afterward for political gain. Really sad to exploit feelings of pain and loss.

 

[Brendan]

I can assure you as I wept along with our President, it was not an act and they were not crocodile tears, any more than the tears Jesus wept alongside the family of Lazarus were crocodile tears.

If he was so concerned about the lives of innocent children, he would ban abortion.

If he has no tears for those lost lives, I have difficulty believing his tears on these.

Every single abortion results in a child losing its life, while it is a very rare gun sale that does.

So if those tears are real, why isn’t he focusing his attention on where the children die?

 

[Theo520]

 

[Songcatcher]

Sadly, Abortion is an issue that Christians have done a poor job in addressing. Roe V Wade is now forty three years old! Honestly, we seem to be further away from any effort to reciprocate this ruling. Even Politicians find this topic a side note to mention at only the appropriate rallies.

However, now look at how we appear to your average secular individual. We will bring up the abortion issue implying that we are doing more to see it eradicated than your non-Christians, but this is not the case. We will state our plights about the moral importance of life, while standing in line to see a movie saturated with violence.

There is nothing Christian about a weapon. Sadly, we have seen that not even in the House of the Lord are we safe from the wrath carried out by a weapon. I personally never want to see weapons carried in a Church with the excuse that we are protecting the congregation. It will just send the wrong message about our faith.

Totally agree! Great post!

I second that, Lily. Great post, Leo!

 

[Songcatcher]

I can assure you as I wept along with our President, it was not an act and they were not crocodile tears, any more than the tears Jesus wept alongside the family of Lazarus were crocodile tears.

I read a great article recently from one of President Obama’s spiritual advisers who accompanied him to Sandy Hook when he met with the parents. Shame on anyone who thinks President Obama was faking this. Heck, shame on anyone who isn’t brought to tears by the thought of those children and their families.

Here’s a link and excerpt from the article…

huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/26/the-presidents-devotional_n_4158485.html

The families came in and gathered together, room by room. Many struggled to offer a weak smile when we whispered, “The president will be here soon.” A few were visibly angry—so understandable that it barely needs to be said—and were looking for someone, anyone, to blame. Mostly they sat in silence.

I went downstairs to greet President Obama when he arrived, and I provided an overview of the situation. “Two families per classroom . . . The first is . . . and their child was . . . The second is . . . and their child was . . . We’ll tell you the rest as you go.”

The president took a deep breath and steeled himself, and went into the first classroom. And what happened next I’ll never forget.

Person after person received an engulfing hug from our commander in chief. He’d say, “Tell me about your son. . . . Tell me about your daughter,” and then hold pictures of the lost beloved as their parents described favorite foods, television shows, and the sound of their laughter. For the younger siblings of those who had passed away—many of them two, three, or four years old, too young to understand it all—the president would grab them and toss them, laughing, up into the air, and then hand them a box of White House M&M’s, which were always kept close at hand. In each room, I saw his eyes water, but he did not break.

And then the entire scene would repeat—for hours. Over and over and over again, through well over a hundred relatives of the fallen, each one equally broken, wrecked by the loss. After each classroom, we would go back into those fluorescent hallways and walk through the names of the coming families, and then the president would dive back in, like a soldier returning to a tour of duty in a worthy but wearing war. We spent what felt like a lifetime in those classrooms, and every single person received the same tender treatment. The same hugs. The same looks, directly in their eyes. The same sincere offer of support and prayer.

The staff did the preparation work, but the comfort and healing were all on President Obama. I remember worrying about the toll it was taking on him. And of course, even a president’s comfort was woefully inadequate for these families in the face of this particularly unspeakable loss. But it became some small measure of love, on a weekend when evil reigned.

 

[Path_Finder]

I think there are certainly numerous Christians who seem sympathetic to abortion. That’s sad, but there are many Christians that regularly take a stand. The Catholic Church is an indispensable leader in this regard.

Well, speak for yourself, but the fact that Christians at times seem hypocritical shouldn’t surprise anyone. We are still of the flesh. That’s not an excuse for “what we have done, and what we have left undone”, but it is a reality.
We as Christians, by the grace and power of the Holy Spirit, need to a better job of showing ourselves as an example to the world of God’s love for His creation. I, personally, need to do a better job of this, and confess when I don’t, seeking His grace and absolution.
Owning a firearm is not unchristian. Using one to feed ourselves and others is not unchristian, or defending ourselves or our loved ones or others around us.

Jon

There’s no shortage of accomplishments made on the State level against abortion and without a doubt, a number of states would outlaw abortion fully and have tried so. In spite of this, a few states even have barely an abortion clinic to be found, states like Missouri for example. I would not downplay the accomplishments of the pro-life movement on multiple levels and it is unfortunate if Catholics or Christians are not aware of these.

 

[minion]

Shame on anyone who thinks President Obama was faking this. Heck, shame on anyone who isn’t brought to tears by the thought of those children and their families.

Meanwhile…

PRESIDENT OBAMA VETOES BILL TO DEFUND PLANNED PARENTHOOD
“…He spent this week discussing the need to ‘protect innocent people’ and ‘save more lives’ yet he callously vetoed a bill to protect the most innocent and vulnerable among us from the heinous abuses of Planned Parenthood,” she said, referring to the president’s impassioned speech outlining his executive action on gun control…"

Sorry, I can’t hear the cries of a murderer over the screams of millions of unborn being torn to shreds.

 

[Cathoholic]

Leo2014. You mentioned . . .

QUOTE:
I personally never want to see weapons carried in a Church with the excuse that we are protecting the congregation. It will just send the wrong message about our faith.

That’s fair enough Leo2014.

That’s your call, based upon your “feelings”. I certainly wouldn’t want to take away or detract from how you “feel”.

I guess I’ve never thought it was a big deal one way or the other for the “good guys” to have firearms in Church. (We ALL want the “Bad guys” unarmed Leo2014)

But some people feel differently. Some people feel it IS a big deal to be armed even during Mass.

Should the Secret Service have to check their weapons at the door when high ranked politicians are going to their Church services? Many of these politicians are at undue risk and need appropriate protection.

CCC 2321 The prohibition of murder does not abrogate the right to render an unjust aggressor unable to inflict harm. Legitimate defense is a grave duty for whoever is responsible for the lives of others or the common good.

How about our Judges? If they ruled on a “domestic dispute” and the guy who threatened this judge is now out of jail, is it illegitimate for the Judge to be able to protect him/herself?

Certainly the many World War II soldiers having Mass in the fields WITH THEIR FIREARMS along side of them, is not a sin correct? (We’ve all seen such photographs of WWII and Catholic soldiers–**see armed Catholic soldiers at Mass HERE **)

CCC 2310 Public authorities, in this case, have the right and duty to impose on citizens the obligations necessary for national defense.

Those who are sworn to serve their country in the armed forces are servants of the security and freedom of nations. If they carry out their duty honorably, they truly contribute to the common good of the nation and the maintenance of peace.

What about when a police officer has a funeral and other officers attend? Would you insist THEY TOO disarm themselves?

If the Pope is having Mass in Vatican Square, is he sinning when armed Swiss Guard are present and he knows and OKs it?

How about Syrian Christians at Mass, who have death threats against their families if they dare attend Mass?

Certainly this Syrian Catholic Dad can legitimately try to protect his family at Mass can he not?

CCC 2265a Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of others. The defense of the common good requires that an unjust aggressor be rendered unable to cause harm. . . .

If a mom has “an ex” that has threatened her and her children, and the “ex” has already ignored a “Restraining Order” in the past, is “Mom” falling headlong into sin if she decides to conceal and carry?

Hopefully your “feelings” aren’t reserved against only good law-abiding citizens right Leo2014?

You DO insist upon politicians, police, soldiers, Swiss Guard, etc. ALL being unarmed too? Or is it just citizens?

• Secret Service men and women
• Politicians
• Judges
• Military Soldiers
• Police Officers
• Swiss Guards (or the Pope for allowing this)
• Father of a Syrian Christian Family
• A Dad or Mom
• A law-abiding citizen

---

You also said:

QUOTE:
There is nothing Christian about a weapon.

I want to affirm you here.

**But there is nothing UNChristian about a weapon either. **

“Weapons” are inanimate objects.

But you are going to create a theological problem for yourself if you attempt to classify inanimate objects as “intrinsically evil”. (Hopefully that was not your purpose)

The other problem with overemphasizing “There is nothing Christian about a weapon” paradigm, is the mindset it engenders (I am not saying YOU necessarily are OVEREMPHASIZING this attitude Leo2014. I am just suggesting it CAN take place so we want to be careful not to fall into that mind-set).

This way of thinking sometimes overemphasizes **blame against the “weapon” **for problems and not the “weapon abuser”.

This would be yet another convenient way for people to **minimize their personal responsibility **when they abuse things or people.

There is a teen boy’s lawyer using that defense for him (“It’s the money’s fault!”). They invented an “affluenza” legal defense to deflect personal responsibility.

This attitude seems more prevalent today than it has in the past (blaming “things” instead of asserting personal accountability).

But again I certainly affirm you having the right to your own “feelings”. And I also think it is quite reasonable for you to NOT carry “a weapon” when you are in Church or for that matter anywhere else.

 

[zz912]

I can assure you as I wept along with our President, it was not an act and they were not crocodile tears, any more than the tears Jesus wept alongside the family of Lazarus were crocodile tears.

How exactly are you assuring us that the President’s tears were genuine? Please explain how you have this information.

And to compare the President to Jesus…REALLY!!!

 

[zz912]

There is nothing Christian about a weapon. Sadly, we have seen that not even in the House of the Lord are we safe from the wrath carried out by a weapon. I personally never want to see weapons carried in a Church with the excuse that we are protecting the congregation. It will just send the wrong message about our faith.

So when Jesus instructed His followers to sell their cloaks and buy a sword???
Or when He made a whip and whipped people in the Temple area?
Or the fact that the Apostles carried weapons?

Perhaps you know better than God Himself, and know better than the Apostles.

 

[zz912]

I personally never want to see weapons carried in a Church with the excuse that we are protecting the congregation. It will just send the wrong message about our faith.

http://14544-presscdn-0-64.pagely.n...y-note-the-two-handed-swords-to-the-right.jpg

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[Cathoholic]

Here today is yet another example of a Father not being allowed to protect his family (in this case, his daughter).

Four teens in custody after alleged gang rape at New York City playground.

foxnews.com/us/2016/01/11/four-teens-in-custody-after-alleged-group-rape-at-new-york-city-playground.html?intcmp=hpbt2

Unfortunately, the daughter was sadly raped.

The police showed up later at the father’s behest.

As I said, when seconds count, the Government is only minutes away!

The mayor was . . . . “disgusted and deeply saddened by the horrific attack… Every New Yorker in every neighborhood deserves to feel safe and protected”

The mayor probably shedded a real sincere tear too. . . . . But that didn’t help this young girl.

And notice the mayor (who would have had the Dad arrested in all likelihood if he himself possessed a firearm), didn’t talk about the importance of the citizens . . . safety!

No. The mayor talked about the importance of the . . . . FEELINGS! . . . of citizens??

No!

The mayor rather depersonalized this event talking about the importance of the FEELINGS of NOT citizens but the FEELINGS of “NEIGHBORHOODS”!

He can’t even bring himself to call this what it was.

An unjust attack upon citizens that had no means of possibly defending themselves because of too many rules and regulations and laws. And despite there being armed protection exceptions for the mayor, there is NO exception for the citizens.

The mayor was (of course) . . . . .

disgusted and deeply saddened by the horrific attack… Every New Yorker in every **neighborhood deserves to feel **safe and protected

And next week if pressed, the politicians in situations like this will offer citizens MORE imbalance of power, more rules, more regulation, more laws, perhaps put up a few more trendy “Gun-Free Zone” signs or stickers too.

And next week, if pressed very hard, the politicians will probably demand more taxpayer dollars to set up a commission to go to Orlando Florida for a couple of weeks (at taxpayer expense) to study the problem further and come up with “solutions”.

Another program. Another bureaucracy. More taxes needed. More crime against good law abiding people who get reduced down to statistics and indignation, sadness and sometimes even tears by politicians. Perhaps even ALL of these are . . . sincere.

But the people also need “sincere” means of at least being able to defend themselves.

Politicians see this as “neighborhoods” deserving to “FEEL” safe and protected. Not PEOPLE BEING safe and protected.

disgusted and deeply saddened by the horrific attack… Every New Yorker in every **neighborhood deserves to feel **safe and protected

And when the mayor was giving this opinion of his, presumably at a news conference, it is almost CERTAIN that HE HIMSELF, was ARMED to the proverbial teeth (via his own guards).

This defacto potential criminalization of the dad (and the daughter) if they were carrying a firearm, was yet another injustice here that will be classified by the gun-ban people as “gun-violence” statistics to help KEEP the Dad and the Daughter classified as “illegal” to possess a firearm, and be subject to further VICTIMIZATION.

And “news conferences” such as this will also be filled with plenty of propaganda to keep gun-grabbing citizens, in the gun-grabbing" mindset.

And you guys will continue to cry out to Caesar to solve your problems, while hindering plebians, getting in the way of common people that want to try to some extent solve their own problems . . . but will not be allowed to.

 

[Johann_du_Toit]

Obama;s attempt to grab guns from law abiding citizens by decree and sidestepping the legislature is an unconstitutional abuse of power and violates the principle of separation of powers.

Father James VS Schall wrote an interesting article on Obama;s abuse of power in Catholic World Report:
catholicworldreport.com/Blog/4488/headlines_guns_and_the_constitution.aspx

 

[Erich]

Profiling doesn’t really work except on TV shows:

And El Al, and Ben Gurion Airport

cbsnews.com/news/the-safest-airline/