Obama plans curbs on guns

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I’ve been praying that Obama would just abide by the constitution, something he seems rather unwilling to do on a lot of issues. 🤷

The fact that we disagree and won’t change each other’s minds doesn’t mean I’ll be quiet when it comes to constitutional rights. This is just one of them under attack by progressives.

Jon
Don’t worry. Neither side will keep quiet. And my understanding is Obama and Hillary look forward to the debate.
 
“The Social Security Administration has indicated that it will begin the rulemaking process to include information in the background check system about beneficiaries who are prohibited from possessing a firearm for mental health reasons.”

So, somehow the government gun enforcement people are going to have access to the medical records (and presumably prescriptions) of people receiving Medicare to see whether Loretta Lynch or some underling of hers thinks somebody is too old, too lacking in mental or physical capacity to handle a gun? Probably a good idea to stay away from doctors as much as possible, lest some gun-hater among them decides one’s hand strength or steadiness just isn’t sufficient to accurately aim a gun.

And what about people Obama appointees consider “dangerous” because they once picketed an abortion clinic? As we know, Janet Napolitano favored putting active prolifers on a “terrorist watch list”. Maybe she didn’t get it done, but again, maybe she did.

Do I exhibit a distrust of this administration? Indeed I do, and for the very good reason that it has amply demonstrated untrustworthiness.
 
Thanks for sharing.
All in all, it looks like a non-event. He’s focusing on things he coulda/shoulda done his first week in office.
The President’s Actions to Reduce Gun Violence

Keep guns out of the wrong hands through background checks
  • The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) is making clear that it doesn’t matter where you conduct your business—from a store, at gun shows, or over the Internet: If you’re in the business of selling firearms, you must get a license and conduct background checks.
  • ATF is finalizing a rule to require background checks for people trying to buy some of the most dangerous weapons and other items through a trust, corporation, or other legal entity.
  • Attorney General Loretta E. Lynch has sent a letter to States highlighting the importance of receiving complete criminal history records and criminal dispositions, information on persons disqualified because of a mental illness, and qualifying crimes of domestic violence.
  • The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) is overhauling the background check system to make it more effective and efficient. The envisioned improvements include processing background checks 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, and improving notification of local authorities when certain prohibited persons unlawfully attempt to buy a gun. The FBI will hire more than 230 additional examiners and other staff to help process these background checks.
The above looks like basic housekeeping they should have done ages ago. Nothing to brag about.
Make our communities safer from gun violence
  • The Attorney General convened a call with U.S. Attorneys around the country to direct federal prosecutors to continue to focus on smart and effective enforcement of our gun laws.
  • The President’s FY2017 budget will include funding for 200 new ATF agents and investigators to help enforce our gun laws.
  • ATF has established an Internet Investigation Center to track illegal online firearms trafficking and is dedicating $4 million and additional personnel to enhance the National Integrated Ballistics Information Network.
  • ATF is finalizing a rule to ensure that dealers who ship firearms notify law enforcement if their guns are lost or stolen in transit.
  • The Attorney General issued a memo encouraging every U.S. Attorney’s Office to renew domestic violence outreach efforts.
More basic housekeeping that fits under ‘enforce the laws we have’.
I wish they would start cracking down on strawman purchases for felons et al. That’s a law rarely prosecuted.
Increase mental health treatment and reporting to the background check system
  • The Administration is proposing a new $500 million investment to increase access to mental health care.
  • The Social Security Administration has indicated that it will begin the rulemaking process to include information in the background check system about beneficiaries who are prohibited from possessing a firearm for mental health reasons.
  • The Department of Health and Human Services is finalizing a rule to remove unnecessary legal barriers preventing States from reporting relevant information about people prohibited from possessing a gun for specific mental health reasons.
More basic housekeeping, assuming it’s all constitutional and legal on defining who’s prohibited.
Shape the future of gun safety technology
  • The President has directed the Departments of Defense, Justice, and Homeland Security to conduct or sponsor research into gun safety technology
  • The President has also directed the departments to review the availability of smart gun technology on a regular basis, and to explore potential ways to further its use and development to more broadly improve gun safety.
So have they been ignoring gun safety technology? Looks more like posturing.
 
So have they been ignoring gun safety technology? Looks more like posturing.
What, exactly, is gun safety technology that they’re looking at? Guns that won’t shoot unless you enter a ten-digit combination first? Guns nowadays have safety features. All joking aside, I wonder what they mean by this.
 
The President’s Actions to Reduce Gun Violence

So President Obama is taking executive action to reduce gun violence. Here’s what his actions are designed to do:

Keep guns out of the wrong hands through background checks
  • The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) is making clear that it doesn’t matter where you conduct your business—from a store, at gun shows, or over the Internet: If you’re in the business of selling firearms, you must get a license and conduct background checks.
  • ATF is finalizing a rule to require background checks for people trying to buy some of the most dangerous weapons and other items through a trust, corporation, or other legal entity.
  • Attorney General Loretta E. Lynch has sent a letter to States highlighting the importance of receiving complete criminal history records and criminal dispositions, information on persons disqualified because of a mental illness, and qualifying crimes of domestic violence.
  • The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) is overhauling the background check system to make it more effective and efficient. The envisioned improvements include processing background checks 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, and improving notification of local authorities when certain prohibited persons unlawfully attempt to buy a gun. The FBI will hire more than 230 additional examiners and other staff to help process these background checks.
What does this mean? If I sell a firearm from my collection to a family member or friend, am I suddenly in the “business of selling firearms”? How many crimes are committed by people who buy “the most dangerous weapons” (whatever that means) through a corporation or trust? A corporation or trust is no more allowed to give a weapon to a criminal than anybody else is.
Shape the future of gun safety technology
  • The President has directed the Departments of Defense, Justice, and Homeland Security to conduct or sponsor research into gun safety technology
  • The President has also directed the departments to review the availability of smart gun technology on a regular basis, and to explore potential ways to further its use and development to more broadly improve gun safety.
Take an in-depth look at the President’s latest actions here.
When the President puts “smart gun” technology on the weapons the Secret Service agents protecting his family use, then I’ll consider it, when the price comes down, maybe.
 
What, exactly, is gun safety technology that they’re looking at? Guns that won’t shoot unless you enter a ten-digit combination first? Guns nowadays have safety features. All joking aside, I wonder what they mean by this.
Exactly, it’s pandering!
No LEO will use a gun that requires you to wear a special watch or ring, and can only be shot with that hand. Of greater risk is that it might be disabled with a modified cell phone jammer, leaving the LEO defenseless.

He’s failed yet another attempt to create a legacy moment.
 
Exactly, it’s pandering!
No LEO will use a gun that requires you to wear a special watch or ring, and can only be shot with that hand. Of greater risk is that it might be disabled with a modified cell phone jammer, leaving the LEO defenseless.

He’s failed yet another attempt to create a legacy moment.
Well, I don’t think he means a special watch or ring like a comic book hero. Wait until you know the details before you declare him - or anyone - a failure.

He’s going to leave a legacy no matter what.
 
Well, I don’t think he means a special watch or ring like a comic book hero. Wait until you know the details before you declare him - or anyone - a failure.

He’s going to leave a legacy no matter what.
He certainly wasted no time in using the San Bernadino shootings as a bully pulpit. Never mind the fact that AK’s were already illegal in California at the time. What’s the going to do? Double-ban them?

The gun control advocates can’t get it through their skulls that disarming the populace will not protect them from an active shooter whose only desire is to spill as much blood as possible. Gun laws are a joke because criminals do not follow laws in the first place.

I also find it hysterical that the only people the Left wants armed are the military and the police; the same military and police that they, in the same breath, demonize for being brutal, racist fascists.

Finally, this administration lectures me on my gun rights, but is perfectly comfortable with Mexican drug cartels having the “assault weapons” that are supposedly so lethal in the hands of a white male, or with Iran - a belligerent, OrwellIan theocracy- having weapons capable of turning the planet into an irradiated wasteland.
 
Well, I don’t think he means a special watch or ring like a comic book hero. Wait until you know the details before you declare him - or anyone - a failure.

He’s going to leave a legacy no matter what.
Yes, using RFID technology is exactly where so called smart guns have been heading.
Don’t forget the watch, don’t get it wet, and pray they won’t jam your device. Also, remember to keep the batteries fresh 😃

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

The fingerprint option is also fraught with risks. Hope you don’t have to swipe the finger print pad repeatedly, like with my PC. Keep your fingers clean and uninjured. Do you think they will have a disclaimer that you can’t use it in muddy conditions or cold weather (gloves)?
 
Yes, using RFID technology is exactly where so called smart guns have been heading.
Don’t forget the watch, don’t get it wet, and pray they won’t jam your device. Also, remember to keep the batteries fresh 😃

http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/NA-BY999_SMARTG_G_20131120184205.jpg
Something similar happens in the video game Metal Gear Solid 4. Not being “registered” in a database means one is unable to use a gun. It sounds like a perfect way to render weapons useless and force the armed population into submission.

Ah, but what do I know? That’s just paranoid conspiracy talk. Nothing to see here or think about, comrades.
 
I will make sure not to watch or listen and find something else to be busy with! Thanks for the warning.
 
I’m not really interested in discussing anything with you until you stop insulting me.
Lily Bernans:
The Democrats want something, so the Republicans block it.
🤷 So, it’s ok to accuse an entire party of partisan gamesmanship, but it’s an insult to challenge this kind of overreaching, unprovable statement? Yeah, that sounds fair…
 
Something similar happens in the video game Metal Gear Solid 4. Not being “registered” in a database means one is unable to use a gun. It sounds like a perfect way to render weapons useless and force the armed population into submission.

Ah, but what do I know? That’s just paranoid conspiracy talk. Nothing to see here or think about, comrades.
Gun holsters will start coming with an extra pocket, for moist towelettes.
What’s an extra 30 seconds, while you wipe down your fingers and the bio-metric sensor.
I’m sure the attacker will wait.
 
As someone writing from outside the United States, can someone explain to me not the inherent benefits (for want of a better word) of being able safely to use a gun - but why whenever any level of gun law is mooted, those who oppose it tend to automatically assume that it inherently represents a government conspiracy to cow its population, rather than (say) an entirely well-meaning (if slightly hamfisted?) desire to protect the population from a very clear and present and continuing threat?

…ideally, without denigrating anyone in general or specifically who might be in favour of such laws.

FWIW, from what I have read I also rather think the thread title is extremely misleading. Obama is suggesting tightening and better enforcing existing regulations, not banning stuff. (Although chance might be a fine thing).
 
Lily Bernans. Based upon your comments. . . .

Congratulations on your shooting awards.

I don’t want to diminish your achievement here at all, but I have to ask you about inconsistencies in your replies that call in to question some issues you raised.

I asked you WHY you think the Military and law enforcement community “need” assault rifles and what you called “ultra-lethal bullets”?

You did not answer.

I asked what the “ultra-lethal bullets” you mentioned were alluding to.

I have yet to see an answer. I tried looking it up but I didn’t come across anything so if you don’t mind clarifying it would be appreciated.

I asked you what you thought an “assault rifle” was (as the definition has been fluid and seems to change depending upon who you are talking to and the “politics” de jour).

You said (to Theo520 here) that an “assault rifle” is (emphasis mine) . . . .

QUOTE:
A rapid-fire, magazine-led automatic rifle designed for use by the military like the XM25.

DO you understand that automatic rifles have been outlawed in the United States for citizens since the National Firearms Act (NFA) of 1934 (except under very extreme exceptions-see here)?

No automatic weapons since 1934 in these circumstances Lily Bernans.

I looked up the XM25 you alluded to. It is not a “rifle” in the sense of a fire arm but rather a dedicated grenade launcher (here).

Wikipedia mentions . . . .

QUOTE:
The XM25 . . . .was planned to officially enter service in late 2015, but malfunctions and program budget cuts pushed planned fielding to early 2017.

So far the XM25 you mentioned doesn’t appear ready for use in the military and there is at least some doubt whether it ever will be.

The XM25 you mentioned isn’t even in service yet (except under a trial)!

The XM25 you mentioned isn’t a rifle at all (at least in the usual sense). The XM25 you mentioned is a dedicated grenade launcher.

If you think any rifle SHAPE = a “rifle” . . . then WHY not just explain that to the readers of the thread who may otherwise read what you said is a standard fire arm and be misled?

But the PRINCIPLE here that I’d really like you to address is WHY you think the military and law enforcement community “need” ANY assault rifles or ANY fire arms at all?

(Incidentally. I think the law enforcement community DOES need firearms.)

I would also like to ask you WHERE the rights of the citizens come from?

Do rights come from “the creator”? (And are merely recognized by the Government)?

Or do you think these “rights” emanate and/or are bestowed upon citizens from Government?
 
Murmurs.

You said:

QUOTE:
As someone writing from outside the United States, can someone explain to me not the inherent benefits (for want of a better word) of being able safely to use a gun - but why whenever any level of gun law is mooted, those who oppose it tend to automatically assume that it inherently represents a government conspiracy to cow its population, rather than (say) an entirely well-meaning (if slightly hamfisted?) desire to protect the population from a very clear and present and continuing threat?

(I will ignore the built-in presuppositions your question has, ignore the “conspiracy” pejorative, and answer your inquiry anyway.)

**Its always good to learn from your mistakes.

Its even better when you can learn from other peoples mistakes.**

Much of the US citizenry has learned from other peoples mistakes.
 
As someone writing from outside the United States, can someone explain to me … why whenever any level of gun law is mooted, those who oppose it tend to automatically assume that it inherently represents a government conspiracy to cow its population, rather than (say) an entirely well-meaning (if slightly hamfisted?) desire to protect the population from a very clear and present and continuing threat?
Certainly. The Constitution of the United States was framed up in order to specify precisely what powers the government held, and by what process this constitution could be amended. Almost immediately, it became obvious that it was likewise necessary to specify what rights citizens held. These became foundational documents for our nation. If anyone wanted to modify this foundation, there were specific (and daunting!) steps that they could take in order to effect such a change; however, it was not intended that this would be easy, or a quick process, or something that a simple majority (of citizens or Congressmen) could accomplish.

One of these first amendments specified that the “the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” Inasmuch as gun control law may infringe the right of citizens to keep or bear arms, any attempts to implement such measures is an attempt to go around the process of modifying the Constitution. Has the judicial branch of the government used its powers to interpret this amendment? Yes, and in precisely the way that the framers of the Constitution have intended.

However, some wish – in the name of any number of seemingly laudable motivations – to get around the provisions of the Constitution, and infringe one of our basic rights. If they attempted to do so by means of the constitutionally-provided process (i.e., amending the Constitution), then I’d say “have at it!” However, attempts to do so unilaterally by Congress (without the votes of the individual states) or by executive order are anathema to the very notion of how this government is supposed to work.

The gun control debate is one that’s heart-felt on both sides of the question. However, given that some take to heart this right that the foundational documents of the country have identified as theirs, it seems unreasonable to suggest that any process short of a constitutional amendment might be a means by which such a change might be effected.

Should we debate the merits of gun control (as opposed to the process by which it’s to be implemented)? Certainly. We’ll hear lots of opinions, pro and con. Should good arguments for gun control trump the very fabric of this nation’s construction? Absolutely not.

When some lament that this is merely a “political issue”, they’re hitting the nail on the head (without realizing it, I suspect): the real issue here is whether the passions of the day should be allowed to be enshrined in our Constitution without due process. The answer to that question must always be ‘no’.
FWIW, from what I have read I also rather think the thread title is extremely misleading. Obama is suggesting tightening and better enforcing existing regulations, not banning stuff.
And, of course, at least in America (given, I suppose, the circumstances of the genesis of our country), there’s always been a healthy suspicion of the motivation of those in power. We exist as a country because some folks stood up and said, “hey! you’re not acting in our best interest, and are actually trampling our rights!” The fact that we continue to be sensitive to that sort of behavior by our own government shouldn’t be all that surprising. 😉

Some might counter “but, it’s for the good of the people! It provides a more secure and safe environment!” However, in the context of discussing the importance of liberty vis-a-vis security, Ben Franklin passed along the following assertion: “those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” (The context is striking in its application here: Franklin was concerned that the assembly wasn’t being given the right to tax the Penn estate for the purposes of establishing frontier security; the Penns wanted to give a lump sum – without giving up their claim that they were untaxable – to enable the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania to ‘purchase a little temporary safety’ for the colonists on the frontier. Similarly, then, we ask the question today: even if gun control purchases a little temporary safety, is it worth giving up the liberties enshrined in our Constitution?)
 
Thanks for your honesty and willingness to admit that your assertions were mistaken, and are not representative of the truth. 👍
I think the misunderstanding on my part stems from the fact that the people I knew were only serving two or four - can’t remember - weeks in the summer. They were like reserves, I guess. I honestly don’t know, so I’ll just say “I was wrong about that, thanks for the correction.”
 
Of course they will. Disarming the populace is necessary to progressive power acquisition.

Jon
You do realize Obama doesn’t want to actually disarm people, he just wants to close some loopholes. And even that is far from a “done deal.”
 
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