Obama Pro-Abortion Health Care Reconciliation Bill Expected Monday

[Holly3278]

and the most powerful thing any of us can do I saved for last, I prayed a Chaplet of the Rosary, with the intention that this bill definitivly fail, that we never support abortion.

Hi crazzeto. I am just curious but what exactly is a chaplet of the rosary? I have never heard of the rosary as being referred to as a chaplet before. I have heard of the divine mercy chaplet though and the St. Michael the Archangel chaplet. I know this is off topic but is there really such a thing as a chaplet of the rosary? Please do not feel that I am trying to humiliate you or anything. I am genuinely curious. You may respond via PM if you wish.

That said, did this health care reconciliation bill ever come out? If so, is it going to address the problem of abortion funding in the health care bill?

 

[Biggie]

If this bill isn’t passed, some people could needlessly die. Would you want that on your conscience?

Afraid you’re going to have to explain this one. To the best of my knowledge, the bill doesn’t actually take effect until years down the road. So if you’re saying that the proponents of the bill are in the noble business of saving lives and that the bill actually does that, both of which I think are belly busters, then you’re also saying they’re not too concerned about all those who will die waiting for their saving hand to reach all the way down to the little people and heal them with the magic health care bill.

Proponents of this nightmare are always trying to create a false moral imperative to justify a clear fiscal and political boondoggle. The moral imperative doesn’t exist, to the extent that under limited resources (the condition of reality), some will suffer. The only real question is who and under what circumstances. The bill wants the aged and infirm to suffer at the expense of a nebulous cloud of uninsured individuals. It is the typical left displacement of suffering onto the most defenseless because they can get away with it. Do you want that on your conscience?

 

[mary_bobo]

If this bill isn’t passed, some people could needlessly die. Would you want that on your conscience?

If this bill were as important as the proponents would have us believe, why does it not take effect immediately? It couldn’t be that the government needs to raise taxes on all to pay for it to get a head start? And as with SS and Medicare it will go broke pretty quickly. There are other ways to cover those who do not now have coverage, and this ain’t it. (sorry Sister Blanche). If those that back this bill were not so determined to take over 16% of our economy, they could fix the parts that are broken without all this hassle. That should tell us just what they have in mind and it isn’t healthcare.

 

[Biggie]

If this bill were as important as the proponents would have us believe, why does it not take effect immediately? It couldn’t be that the government needs to raise taxes on all to pay for it to get a head start? And as with SS and Medicare it will go broke pretty quickly. There are other ways to cover those who do not now have coverage, and this ain’t it. (sorry Sister Blanche). If those that back this bill were not so determined to take over 16% of our economy, they could fix the parts that are broken without all this hassle. That should tell us just what they have in mind and it isn’t healthcare.

Boom. Exactly right.

 

[portarica]

.

Finally, your last comment assumes good faith on the part of the most abortion-oriented government in this nation’s history. It is, in my opinion, unrealistic to believe there will not be permissive loopholes in any pretended “prohibition” of abortion funding they adopt.

At least this administration says they will take the abortion language out, the last adminisration did nothing to stop abortion even though it probably had the votes on the supreme court to counter Roe V. Wade.

If Roe V. Wade is overurned, it will turn administation of the abortion issue back to the states and the Republicans will lose their national bargaining chip with the fundies and abortion only voters. And they don’t want to do that , even at the expense of the lives of the unborn innocent.

Peace

 

[Biggie]

.

At least this administration says they will take the abortion language out, the last adminisration did nothing to stop abortion even though it probably had the votes on the supreme court to counter Roe V. Wade.

If Roe V. Wade is overurned, it will turn administation of the abortion issue back to the states and the Republicans will lose their national bargaining chip with the fundies and abortion only voters. And they don’t want to do that , even at the expense of the lives of the unborn innocent.

Peace

There is no “at least” clause to allow advocates for this administration to squeeze a conscience through. The statement could only come from one of those non-abortion only voters. That says it all.

 

[Ridgerunner]

If this bill isn’t passed, some people could needlessly die. Would you want that on your conscience?

The “involuntarily uninsured” numbers are exceedingly questionable. It is admitted by Obama himself that millions willnot be insured under any Democrat plan. Republs claim their plan(s) will increase the numbers insured. So, who, exactly, do you think is going to die needlessly if this partic ular Democrat plan (assuming it’s the Obama version of the Senate version) is not passed?

But for sure, the Obama plan will pay to actively kill the unborn.

 

[Ridgerunner]

If this bill were as important as the proponents would have us believe, why does it not take effect immediately? It couldn’t be that the government needs to raise taxes on all to pay for it to get a head start? And as with SS and Medicare it will go broke pretty quickly. There are other ways to cover those who do not now have coverage, and this ain’t it. (sorry Sister Blanche). If those that back this bill were not so determined to take over 16% of our economy, they could fix the parts that are broken without all this hassle. That should tell us just what they have in mind and it isn’t healthcare.

The awful thing is that they will do the same thing with the early collection as they do with soc ial security. They’ll just spend it, and there won’t be a dime of it left in 2014.

 

[crazzeto]

Hi crazzeto. I am just curious but what exactly is a chaplet of the rosary? I have never heard of the rosary as being referred to as a chaplet before. I have heard of the divine mercy chaplet though and the St. Michael the Archangel chaplet. I know this is off topic but is there really such a thing as a chaplet of the rosary? Please do not feel that I am trying to humiliate you or anything. I am genuinely curious. You may respond via PM if you wish.

That said, did this health care reconciliation bill ever come out? If so, is it going to address the problem of abortion funding in the health care bill?

A chaplet, or a plaited crown of Roses which is what the Rosary is. This of course should make one think of another plaited crown of thorns. When you pray a chaplet of the rosary, you pray all the way around the rosary once, i.e. 5 mysteries. There are 4 chaplets that may be prayed, adding up to 20 totaly mysteries of the rosary.

 

[portarica]

The awful thing is that they will do the same thing with the early collection as they do with soc ial security. They’ll just spend it, and there won’t be a dime of it left in 2014.

If the SS system is solvent to 2037 (GOA), where do you get your facts? And if they are not spending on benefits until 2014 how can they not have a dime left?

One of the problems with addressing any big issue is that the way it is framed in the media(left and right, from MSNBC to FOX) is in little snippets that don’t really speak to the facts that should help us in making decisions , instead they lead with conclusions and then only bring up the types of things that help their conclusions.

What we need to be doing is advocating for a sound and ethical healthcare bill. Both sides are in bed with the money interests, the right wing doesn’t care that their supporters generally speaking (on a geographic basis) have the worst healthcare and the poorest coverage presently. The left doesn’t care, that despite their “liberal” leanings they are crafting a bill that sides as much with corporations that benefit from an overpriced and ineffective delivery of medicine as with siding with “the little guy” without coverage.

And in the middle we are left with poor and expensive coverage, and the great care is rationed whether we want to admit it or not, unless you have the"cadillac" insurance plans you will not be able to get the best care that is always emphasized in both parties talking points.

How many friends and family of forum participants know somebody who lost their life because they went into a hospital for something simple and didn’t make it out? How many know someone who didn’t go to the doctors until it was “too” late because they put off their medical care for financial reasons?

To suggest that our healthcare system will get better if we do nothing is naive. We need to be advocating for a just and ethical system. We pay for everybody’s coverage now anyway whether it be ER visits for the poor or through the bankruptcy proceedings of the uninsured working class. Let’s now be upfront about it and cut the fraud and waste out of the system and the best way to do that is through comprehensive healthcare coverage.

Peace

 

[Ridgerunner]

If the SS system is solvent to 2037 (GOA), where do you get your facts? And if they are not spending on benefits until 2014 how can they not have a dime left?

One of the problems with addressing any big issue is that the way it is framed in the media(left and right, from MSNBC to FOX) is in little snippets that don’t really speak to the facts that should help us in making decisions , instead they lead with conclusions and then only bring up the types of things that help their conclusions.

How many friends and family of forum participants know somebody who lost their life because they went into a hospital for something simple and didn’t make it out? How many know someone who didn’t go to the doctors until it was “too” late because they put off their medical care for financial reasons?

To suggest that our healthcare system will get better if we do nothing is naive. We need to be advocating for a just and ethical system. We pay for everybody’s coverage now anyway whether it be ER visits for the poor or through the bankruptcy proceedings of the uninsured working class. Let’s now be upfront about it and cut the fraud and waste out of the system and the best way to do that is through comprehensive healthcare coverage.

Peace

Strange as it may seem, I didn’t get my concern from Fox or MSN. Doubtless others have thought the same thing, but I actually worried about it independently. My concern that the government will simply spend up all taxes collected “for healthcare” before 2014, will simply be spent on other things is not unrealistic. It would be unrealistic to expect them to do otherwise.

In all my life, I knew one person who put off going to the doctor until insurance kicked in, and died perhaps as a consequence of it. Lady was a week away from Medicare coverage and knew exactly what was wrong with her. (cardiace artery blockage). The heck of it was that she had the money to pay for it herself, but didn’t want to spend it. Doubtless there are others who have known people who died because they were not insured.

I guess I’m naive, but I think the best way to cut waste and fraud is to cut waste and fraud, not to open up another whole program.

 

[pathia]

The “involuntarily uninsured” numbers are exceedingly questionable. It is admitted by Obama himself that millions willnot be insured under any Democrat plan. Republs claim their plan(s) will increase the numbers insured. So, who, exactly, do you think is going to die needlessly if this partic ular Democrat plan (assuming it’s the Obama version of the Senate version) is not passed?

But for sure, the Obama plan will pay to actively kill the unborn.

I have been involuntarily uninsured for about a decade now.

 

[tisher1]

So, I have been writing my congressmen and senators about this issue. Here is a response I got from Senator Bingaman. Can anyone give me some ideas on what I should post as a response? I plan to post several responses to him in the coming days.

“Thank you for writing me regarding abortion and health care reform. I appreciate your taking the time to write.
I believe that health care reform is not the place to engage in a highly-charged abortion debate. Congress has agreed that federal funds should not be used to cover abortions. However, I do not believe in prohibiting a woman from using her own funds to pay for a healthcare policy that includes a full range of reproductive services. Thus, I believe we should maintain the status quo regarding abortion and reproductive health services. I understand your concerns and please be assured I will keep your comments in mind as the Senate continues to consider health care reform legislation.”

Thanks in Advance –

 

[mjs1987]

A healthcare bill that funds or allows for killing of new human life is not really a healthcare bill since the purpose of healthcare is to preserve and save life not to kill it. Many Democrats show compassion for the poor and downtrodden, which is a good thing, but the answers they come up with helping them are misguided at best. Abortion and birth control are not necessary tools in fighting poverty. It merely makes the situation worse than before by telling them that they do not have to change their own behaviors to raise themselves from poverty. It increases their dependency on us.

 

[portarica]

A healthcare bill that funds or allows for killing of new human life is not really a healthcare bill since the purpose of healthcare is to preserve and save life not to kill it. Many Democrats show compassion for the poor and downtrodden, which is a good thing, but the answers they come up with helping them are misguided at best. Abortion and birth control are not necessary tools in fighting poverty. It merely makes the situation worse than before by telling them that they do not have to change their own behaviors to raise themselves from poverty. It increases their dependency on us.

So this is about the least getting coverage. Like the people already working two jobs that can’t afford healthcare. Or the full timer on minimum wage making 15,000 a year that can’t pay 12,000 a year for family coverage and not live in a box.

That clears things up a lot, I’m sure your sentiments are shared by many who oppose making healthcare available to all.

Peace

 

[Ridgerunner]

So, I have been writing my congressmen and senators about this issue. Here is a response I got from Senator Bingaman. Can anyone give me some ideas on what I should post as a response? I plan to post several responses to him in the coming days.

“Thank you for writing me regarding abortion and health care reform. I appreciate your taking the time to write.
I believe that health care reform is not the place to engage in a highly-charged abortion debate. Congress has agreed that federal funds should not be used to cover abortions. However, I do not believe in prohibiting a woman from using her own funds to pay for a healthcare policy that includes a full range of reproductive services. Thus, I believe we should maintain the status quo regarding abortion and reproductive health services. I understand your concerns and please be assured I will keep your comments in mind as the Senate continues to consider health care reform legislation.”

Thanks in Advance –

You do what you want, but I wouldn’t respond at all. I received a similar response from Sen. Claire McCaskill from my state. Actions speak louder than words. No sense getting another form letter from someone who has made up his/her mind. I take these people at their word regarding their support of abortion. And they are supporting abortion, no mistake about it.

My plan is to support whoever runs against Claire McCaskill, as fully and completely as I can. You may or may not think this the appropriate way to “respond” to your Sen. Bingaman. Personally, I think it’s the only effective way.

 

[ManOnFire]

So this is about the least getting coverage. Like the people already working two jobs that can’t afford healthcare. Or the full timer on minimum wage making 15,000 a year that can’t pay 12,000 a year for family coverage and not live in a box.

That clears things up a lot, I’m sure your sentiments are shared by many who oppose making healthcare available to all.

Peace

If pop culture media would stop peddling sex, drugs, and violence, far less people would be weakened into having sex earlier and often, less men would be weakened into running away from duty, responsibility, and committment, we wouldn’t need so many abortions, and the next generation of girls and boys would have role models for how to spread true love, duty, responsibility, and committment to the next generation. If we all lived the Church’s conservative family values, there would probably be more women who trust men.

 

[YankeeRC]

Considering that this bill will be forced through by using reconciliation procedures upon the electorate by unilateral partisan politics, if such legislation cannot be repealed as many are beginning to push for (and also many are warning repeal may come too late) then, what will be our options as Catholics (and all others) for conscientious objection to paying for federally funded abortion appropriations? Will the Church speak out on how Catholics must respond?