Obama Returns to End-of-Life Plan That Caused Stir

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I’m confused. Do you mean the death panel lies designed to scare elderly people into opposing health care reform? Or the transplant death panels in Arizona? Are we confusing fantasy and reality here?

Any clarification would be appreciated…
Read the article. We’re talking about so-called “end-of-life panels open” appointed by the government to “counsel” people with serious illnesses as to whether they should opt out of further treatment. As we have seen in other countries is almost always lead to panels who are more concerned about cost-effectiveness than they are about the well-being of the patient. 25 years ago my father and my father-in-law both faced the need for a triple bypass surgery. My father received his and lived another 20 years. My father-in-law was under the British health care system and him their panel determined it was not cost effective for him to receive this treatment and he died 18 months later. That is a kind of death panel we are talking about and that is what type of legislation always leads to.
 
I’m confused. Do you mean the death panel lies designed to scare elderly people into opposing health care reform?..
They would coerce scared old people into choosing death.

Consider abortion: It is a documented fact that when a young girl goes into an abortion clinic, the counselor or doctor more often than not sort of “nudges” them to choose the abortion rather than choose to have the child.

Is anyone naive enough to think government paid workers (which is esentially what Planned Parenthood worker are, in all but name) won’t do the same to people at the end of their lives, especially when the elderly are probably costing them a ton of money in healthcare costs?

This is an attack on LIFE, at its beginning (abortion) and now at its end (so called “end of life” care). Its two sides of the same un-Godly coin.

This is just another symptom of the culture of death vs. the culture of life
 
They would coerce scared old people into choosing death.

Consider abortion: It is a documented fact that when a young girl goes into an abortion clinic, the counselor or doctor more often than not sort of “nudges” them to choose the abortion rather than choose to have the child.

Is anyone naive enough to think government paid workers (which is esentially what Planned Parenthood worker are, in all but name) won’t do the same to people at the end of their lives, especially when the elderly are probably costing them a ton of money in healthcare costs?

This is an attack on LIFE, at its beginning (abortion) and now at its end (so called “end of life” care). Its two sides of the same un-Godly coin.

This is just another symptom of the culture of death vs. the culture of life
Talk of what you know or be kind enough to admit this is all just made-up nonsense.

Patients go to a doctor - not a panel. Patients are already making decisions about end-of-life care, sometimes without proper counseling. When counseling is given it is sometimes as part of dealing with some larger issue (sometimes a crisis). All this provision is doing, is paying doctors for devoting time with the patient specifically for counseling on end of life care.

Counseling already exists, end of life issues are being dealt with daily, Medicare is adding one more service to what it already pays for…with which of those facts do you have a problem?
 
Talk of what you know…
I do: Its a fact. Denying it just brings more danger to us all

Have you ever been in an abortion clinic for an abortion? I have. I hate it, but I have. And I am telling you these death-mongers nudge people towards choosing death. And I didn’t see a panel: I SAW A DOCTOR,

EDIT: Be careful of accusing people you don’t know of spreading “nonsense”.
And read John Paul II’s many talks about the Culture of Death
 
Read the article. We’re talking about so-called “end-of-life panels open” appointed by the government to “counsel” people with serious illnesses as to whether they should opt out of further treatment. As we have seen in other countries is almost always lead to panels who are more concerned about cost-effectiveness than they are about the well-being of the patient. 25 years ago my father and my father-in-law both faced the need for a triple bypass surgery. My father received his and lived another 20 years. My father-in-law was under the British health care system and him their panel determined it was not cost effective for him to receive this treatment and he died 18 months later. That is a kind of death panel we are talking about and that is what type of legislation always leads to.
Well I’m aware of stories of death panels and also of policies that led to real death…I was just trying to clarify why we would be discussing fantasy instead of reality - no objection of course - just asking.
 
I do: Its a fact. Denying it just brings more danger to us all
If it’s a fact, prove it. Unless of course you’re talking about Arizona, where we already have proof of who has the power to withhold lifesaving care…
 
Have you ever been in an abortion clinic for an abortion? I have. I hate it, but I have. And I am telling you these death-mongers nudge people towards choosing death. And I didn’t see a panel: I SAW A DOCTOR,

EDIT: Be careful of accusing people you don’t know of spreading “nonsense”.
And read John Paul II’s many talks about the Culture of Death, or maybe you think he spreads nonsense too
 
Have you ever been in an abortion clinic for an abortion? I have. I hate it, but I have. And I am telling you these death-mongers nudge people towards choosing death. And I didn’t see a panel: I SAW A DOCTOR,

EDIT: Be careful of accusing people you don’t know of spreading “nonsense”.
And read John Paul II’s many talks about the Culture of Death, or maybe you think he spreads nonsense too
So if you saw a doctor and not a panel, just how are people supposed to be brought before ‘death panels’? That’s all I’m asking. If you can’t explain then how can you claim it is anything but nonsense?

I have seen what abortion does but that does not give people the right to spread lies (or hatred for that matter). When you claim that end-of-life counseling is going to be some kind of death panel, you are making claims about real people. Hysteria and ignorance can make those people the targets of the mentally unstable. Do you want to be part of that process?

BTW, still waiting for your proof
 
So if you saw a doctor and not a panel, just how are people supposed to be brought before ‘death panels’? That’s all I’m asking. If you can’t explain then how can you claim it is anything but nonsense?

I have seen what abortion does but that does not give people the right to spread lies (or hatred for that matter). When you claim that end-of-life counseling is going to be some kind of death panel, you are making claims about real people. Hysteria and ignorance can make those people the targets of the mentally unstable. Do you want to be part of that process?

BTW, still waiting for your proof
My understanding is that when most people speak of “death panels”, they actually mean those panels who will decide what is the “standard of care” for particular conditions and what should be done, factoring costs into the equation, all for the purpose of determining what insurance companies or the government ought to cover or ought not to cover.

It has not been my understanding that the provision paying physicians (MUCH more likely NPs) to give people “end of life counseling” is what most people are talking about when they talk about “death panels”. But imprecision and unclarity attends nearly everything in the government health care movement, so that should not be surprising.

Getting back to the specific regulatory provision in question, it would be naive, in my opinion, to think this will be a matter of a chat between the individual and “good ol’ Doc Jones”. Doctors do that right now in connection with treatment, and there doesn’t have to be a whole new ICD compensation number for that. I would be very, very surprised if it didn’t turn into a “sub-industry” where one is referred to a “medical counseling” service in the same sort of way one is referred for, e.g., PT presently. Where there’s government money to be accessed, new “services” spring up like mushrooms after a rain, and this will be no exception. I believe the Hemlock Society even changed its name so it could get itself eligible to provide this “service”.

One also has to ask oneself why it is so important to the government to do this, in the face of fiscal insolvency and the almost certitude that any terminal patient discusses options with his/her physician anyway.
 
My understanding is that when most people speak of “death panels”, they actually mean those panels who will decide what is the “standard of care” for particular conditions and what should be done, factoring costs into the equation, all for the purpose of determining what insurance companies or the government ought to cover or ought not to cover.

It has not been my understanding that the provision paying physicians (MUCH more likely NPs) to give people “end of life counseling” is what most people are talking about when they talk about “death panels”. But imprecision and unclarity attends nearly everything in the government health care movement, so that should not be surprising.

Getting back to the specific regulatory provision in question, it would be naive, in my opinion, to think this will be a matter of a chat between the individual and “good ol’ Doc Jones”. Doctors do that right now in connection with treatment, and there doesn’t have to be a whole new ICD compensation number for that. I would be very, very surprised if it didn’t turn into a “sub-industry” where one is referred to a “medical counseling” service in the same sort of way one is referred for, e.g., PT presently. Where there’s government money to be accessed, new “services” spring up like mushrooms after a rain, and this will be no exception. I believe the Hemlock Society even changed its name so it could get itself eligible to provide this “service”.

One also has to ask oneself why it is so important to the government to do this, in the face of fiscal insolvency and the almost certitude that any terminal patient discusses options with his/her physician anyway.
You have the answer within your own post. Doctors do that right now, as part of ongoing care - which means they don’t get compensated to do it. If I went to a doctor for diabetes complications, he would get paid the same whether he took the time to counsel me on end-of-life care or not (diabetes counseling is a different story - here, compensation would depend on how much time he took). If provision is made for end of life counseling reimbursement, then proper time can be allotted to it.

As for panels that determine standards or care and compensation, those already exist (that’s the hypocrisy of this whole fear strategy) and I don’t really see what prevents good, life-respecting Christians from making sure to take their places on them.

The antidote to evil (real or imagined) has always been and will always be: good. Fear is not even in the running as an alternative.
 
You have the answer within your own post. Doctors do that right now, as part of ongoing care - which means they don’t get compensated to do it. If I went to a doctor for diabetes complications, he would get paid the same whether he took the time to counsel me on end-of-life care or not (diabetes counseling is a different story - here, compensation would depend on how much time he took). If provision is made for end of life counseling reimbursement, then proper time can be allotted to it.

As for panels that determine standards or care and compensation, those already exist (that’s the hypocrisy of this whole fear strategy) and I don’t really see what prevents good, life-respecting Christians from making sure to take their places on them.

The antidote to evil (real or imagined) has always been and will always be: good. Fear is not even in the running as an alternative.
If, indeed, doctors do that now out of a sense of duty to their patients, and if they do it during sessions for which they are paid anyway, then why is this government so intent on making it a separate function? I’ll admit I’m cynical about this government’s attitude toward life generally (and with good reason, I fear) but I do predict that this “function” will be “farmed out” to counselors who may be even more doubtful in their intentions than the doctors. As I mentioned before, there were organizations gearing up to do it, including the Hemlock Society, and the law as originally envisioned, clearly allowed for it.

What might prevent good, life-respecting Christians from making sure to take their places on what are called “death panels”? Those who appoint, that’s what. You do realize that this government (in the person of the odious, anti-life Kathleen Sebelius) would have that power of appointment, don’t you?

Fear is sometimes a healthy thing, because oftentimes there really is something to fear. One who walks through the jungle without fearing the tiger is a fool. And, by acting, one might counter the source of it.
 
In the medical field, each service provided is reimbursed (payment being based on level of complexity, time required etc). If there is no reimbursement for something, then one is not obliged to provide it. According end of life counseling reimbursement shows that it is considered necessary and important in its own right, not as a half-sentence wedged into a medical interaction on other matters. It also means that the doctor will get paid if someone who is not otherwise ill, wants to see him to discuss end of life care (a very wise thing to do in this day and age). As it stands right now, many people sometimes sign these directives or wills with little understanding of what they are refusing or insisting on. How anyone can see something sinister in changing that state of affairs is beyond me.

With regards to Christians being part of the process, let’s start with making sure that enough of us are getting into the relevant areas of medicine/research etc. It is certainly better to be proactive than reactive. Like I said, such professional bodies already exist - we have the power to decide whether or not we get on board that train before it leaves the station for good.
 
In the medical field, each service provided is reimbursed (payment being based on level of complexity, time required etc). If there is no reimbursement for something, then one is not obliged to provide it. According end of life counseling reimbursement shows that it is considered necessary and important in its own right, not as a half-sentence wedged into a medical interaction on other matters. It also means that the doctor will get paid if someone who is not otherwise ill, wants to see him to discuss end of life care (a very wise thing to do in this day and age). As it stands right now, many people sometimes sign these directives or wills with little understanding of what they are refusing or insisting on. How anyone can see something sinister in changing that state of affairs is beyond me.

With regards to Christians being part of the process, let’s start with making sure that enough of us are getting into the relevant areas of medicine/research etc. It is certainly better to be proactive than reactive. Like I said, such professional bodies already exist - we have the power to decide whether or not we get on board that train before it leaves the station for good.
Doctors are obliged to fully inform their patients concerning the nature and consequences of any significant condition that manifests itself. And I don’t doubt most do, since they could be subjected to Board complaints, at minimum, if they did not.

But that’s not the same thing as getting into a conversation about “end of life choices” when, for example, a person is simply elderly and nothing more.

Nor is there any particular reason to expect doctors to understand the documents much better than laymen do. I know a number of doctors, and I certainly would not testify to their having a high degree of legal knowledge, (and those documents do have a legal effect) and their ethical principles vary as much as anyone else’s. They’re not counselors either, for the most part, and asking a doctor to engage Aunt Suzie in a discussion about “end of life care” when all she is is old, is beyond the pale of what most doctors are in any way trained to do or, in my opinion, should do. “You see, Aunt Suzie, you’re old, and you’ll get more and more frail, and you might get to where you can’t walk, perhaps are incontinent or in pain, or all of those things.” (As if Aunt Suzie doesn’t already know those things.) “And you see, you can have certain palliative measures, or perhaps not elect life-saving measures in order to end it, and then there’s…”

So will most doctors “farm that out” to some organization that does it? I would bet on that rather than against it. Will the remainder receive some kind of “guidelines” from HHS? I would also bet on that sooner than against it. And what will the “guidelines” say to tell Aunt Suzie about her “end of life choices”, understanding that Suzie is no less subject to suggestion in the doctor’s office than she is at home and that the doctor is no less ethically and morally at sea if he’s paid to do it than if he’s not, but doesn’t want to be criticized for failing to give her “full information” provided by HHS. He’ll be audited, of course, concerning his “completeness” in giving “full information”, or he’ll be concerned that he will. So, he’ll opt for the HHS version. Perhaps Suzie will need to sign it to show that he did.

People died long before Obama came along, and most of them anymore see it coming. I’m persuaded that most doctors know what to tell people about their condition, and do tell them. But the documents themselves are a lawyerly function, not a doctor’s thing to do. What is Suzie really trying to do when she signs? What does she want to cover, to add, to subtract? And they’re a priestly function, or a clergyman function, to the extent those decisions have a moral content. What moral guidance is to be given? Is the doctor really the one to be giving it? Or is he or some surrogate going to rely on the government’s “guideline suggestions” for that? The guidelines of a government that presently at least, is fine with abortion on demand to eliminate “unwanted” children, and the guidelines of a Secretary of HHS who was fine with partial birth abortion, and those of a president who didn’t want to restrict infanticide-by-neglect? The government did push “end of life guidelines”, you know, or at least started it with the military, and “ending it” was part of the pitch. But it was withdrawn when some people in congress protested. So now it’s good for everybody?

Some may wish to trust this death-canoodling government with such things. But I don’t. And saying “Christians have to become involved” in the face of placing yet more power in the hands of such a government is, in my judgment, just as futile as saying “the way to end abortion on demand is to convince the public that it should end”. Trouble with that one is that most people don’t support abortion on demand, but it doesn’t do a bit of good that they don’t.

Rather than “Christians have to become involved” in a government that’s pagan to the core, I prefer “Government should NOT become involved.” Then we don’t have to wonder how on earth true Christians are going to wedge themselves into something in which there is no possibility that they will be welcome. Does anyone really think that the likes of Kathleen Sebelius who preferred excommunication (and got it) rather than abandon her love for abortion, will welcome prolife Christians into the decisionmaking process with this? Some may want to dream up that scenario, but I’m not willing to do it.
 
Oh, for goodness sake. Just come right out and say it – you believe that no one should be told what their options are for end of life care.
If you want to go into that phase of your life in ignorance, that’s your choice. I and a lot of other people would want to know what our options are. You’ve been listening to Sarah “Anything to get my name in the news, and who cares if it’s true or not” Palin.
They would coerce scared old people into choosing death.

Consider abortion: It is a documented fact that when a young girl goes into an abortion clinic, the counselor or doctor more often than not sort of “nudges” them to choose the abortion rather than choose to have the child.

Is anyone naive enough to think government paid workers (which is esentially what Planned Parenthood worker are, in all but name) won’t do the same to people at the end of their lives, especially when the elderly are probably costing them a ton of money in healthcare costs?

This is an attack on LIFE, at its beginning (abortion) and now at its end (so called “end of life” care). Its two sides of the same un-Godly coin.

This is just another symptom of the culture of death vs. the culture of life
 
Doctors are obliged to fully inform their patients concerning the nature and consequences of any significant condition that manifests itself. And I don’t doubt most do, since they could be subjected to Board complaints, at minimum, if they did not.

But that’s not the same thing as getting into a conversation about “end of life choices” when, for example, a person is simply elderly and nothing more.

Nor is there any particular reason to expect doctors to understand the documents much better than laymen do. I know a number of doctors, and I certainly would not testify to their having a high degree of legal knowledge, (and those documents do have a legal effect) and their ethical principles vary as much as anyone else’s. They’re not counselors either, for the most part, and asking a doctor to engage Aunt Suzie in a discussion about “end of life care” when all she is is old, is beyond the pale of what most doctors are in any way trained to do or, in my opinion, should do. “You see, Aunt Suzie, you’re old, and you’ll get more and more frail, and you might get to where you can’t walk, perhaps are incontinent or in pain, or all of those things.” (As if Aunt Suzie doesn’t already know those things.) “And you see, you can have certain palliative measures, or perhaps not elect life-saving measures in order to end it, and then there’s…”

So will most doctors “farm that out” to some organization that does it? I would bet on that rather than against it. Will the remainder receive some kind of “guidelines” from HHS? I would also bet on that sooner than against it. And what will the “guidelines” say to tell Aunt Suzie about her “end of life choices”, understanding that Suzie is no less subject to suggestion in the doctor’s office than she is at home and that the doctor is no less ethically and morally at sea if he’s paid to do it than if he’s not, but doesn’t want to be criticized for failing to give her “full information” provided by HHS. He’ll be audited, of course, concerning his “completeness” in giving “full information”, or he’ll be concerned that he will. So, he’ll opt for the HHS version. Perhaps Suzie will need to sign it to show that he did.

People died long before Obama came along, and most of them anymore see it coming. I’m persuaded that most doctors know what to tell people about their condition, and do tell them. But the documents themselves are a lawyerly function, not a doctor’s thing to do. What is Suzie really trying to do when she signs? What does she want to cover, to add, to subtract? And they’re a priestly function, or a clergyman function, to the extent those decisions have a moral content. What moral guidance is to be given? Is the doctor really the one to be giving it? Or is he or some surrogate going to rely on the government’s “guideline suggestions” for that? The guidelines of a government that presently at least, is fine with abortion on demand to eliminate “unwanted” children, and the guidelines of a Secretary of HHS who was fine with partial birth abortion, and those of a president who didn’t want to restrict infanticide-by-neglect? The government did push “end of life guidelines”, you know, or at least started it with the military, and “ending it” was part of the pitch. But it was withdrawn when some people in congress protested. So now it’s good for everybody?

Some may wish to trust this death-canoodling government with such things. But I don’t. And saying “Christians have to become involved” in the face of placing yet more power in the hands of such a government is, in my judgment, just as futile as saying “the way to end abortion on demand is to convince the public that it should end”. Trouble with that one is that most people don’t support abortion on demand, but it doesn’t do a bit of good that they don’t.

Rather than “Christians have to become involved” in a government that’s pagan to the core, I prefer “Government should NOT become involved.” Then we don’t have to wonder how on earth true Christians are going to wedge themselves into something in which there is no possibility that they will be welcome. Does anyone really think that the likes of Kathleen Sebelius who preferred excommunication (and got it) rather than abandon her love for abortion, will welcome prolife Christians into the decisionmaking process with this? Some may want to dream up that scenario, but I’m not willing to do it.
You’d prefer a scenario that exists only in the imagination of the fanciful? Supposing that death panels were being proposed which they are not - would it be out of the realm of avenues where we have a Christian duty to be active?

Just watched CNN fact check that news article with a democrat and a republican commenting, both of whom were quite clear that there never were any death panels in the health reform law but that inclusion of end of life counseling in the initial Medicare visit was in fact instituted by the Bush administration and expanded to yearly counseling by this admin.

FYI, counseling on various matters is very much a part of what doctors do everyday (nurses as well) and is reimbursed by Medicare. End-of-life documents may be legal but the subject matter is medical and lies squarely within their domain. Have you ever seen such a document? “Aunt Suzie” can specify for example (down to IV fluids and antibiotics), what treatment she will and will not accept if she falls and breaks a hip.

Also, as I have repeatedly said, bodies which decide standard of care and reimbursement requirements already do exist - within professional bodies and insurance companies respectively. Sadly it seems - as we learned recently from happenings in Arizona - that power also can be manipulated by politicians regardless of the opinions of professional bodies, but the governor belongs to the party of ‘life’, so no need for hysteria about death panels in Arizona - regardless of who actually lives or dies.
 
Statist propaganda directive #13: If you are unable to advocate… obfuscate!
The problem herein lies that fact that it is the truth; many people refuse to believe it and as such inject politics into the equation in order to deflect the truth.
 
Originally Posted by CalifCatholic forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
*They would coerce scared old people into choosing death.
Consider abortion: It is a documented fact that when a young girl goes into an abortion clinic, the counselor or doctor more often than not sort of “nudges” them to choose the abortion rather than choose to have the child.
Is anyone naive enough to think government paid workers (which is esentially what Planned Parenthood worker are, in all but name) won’t do the same to people at the end of their lives, especially when the elderly are probably costing them a ton of money in healthcare costs?
This is an attack on LIFE, at its beginning (abortion) and now at its end (so called “end of life” care). Its two sides of the same un-Godly coin.
This is just another symptom of the culture of death vs. the culture of life*
Oh, for goodness sake. Just come right out and say it – you believe that no one should be told what their options are for end of life care…
That’s not what this about. That’s like saying when a girl goes into Planned Parenthood, she is not coerced into having an abortion or taking contraception.

Good Lord, a couple of years ago on Fox News Sunday, Mike Wallace straight BUSTED the Veteran’s Administration for doing this very same thing. The guest was an Obama official, and when she denied it, Wallace produced information right off their own website and the woman had egg all over her face. I saw it myself. After that they pulled that section from the site, and for a while no Obama official would appear on the show.
 
That’s not what this about. That’s like saying when a girl goes into Planned Parenthood, she is not coerced into having an abortion or taking contraception.

Good Lord, a couple of years ago on Fox News Sunday, Mike Wallace straight BUSTED the Veteran’s Administration for doing this very same thing. The guest was an Obama official, and when she denied it, Wallace produced information right off their own website and the woman had egg all over her face. I saw it myself. After that they pulled that section from the site, and for a while no Obama official would appear on the show.
Do you mean the VA end-of-life counseling that was initiated…in what year again was it exactly?
 
Oh, for goodness sake. Just come right out and say it – you believe that no one should be told what their options are for end of life care.
If you want to go into that phase of your life in ignorance, that’s your choice. I and a lot of other people would want to know what our options are. You’ve been listening to Sarah “Anything to get my name in the news, and who cares if it’s true or not” Palin.
How tacky and partisan. This issue has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with who will make the decision on end of life issues. As former Governor of Colorado, Richard Lamm once said, “old people have an obligation to die.” That kind of counseling sounds like euthanasia to me. Being a good Catholic, I am sure you are not advocating that. Doctors tell people everyday what their options are. There are many ways to educate people about such matters and it does not always have to be the government.
 
You’d prefer a scenario that exists only in the imagination of the fanciful? Supposing that death panels were being proposed which they are not - would it be out of the realm of avenues where we have a Christian duty to be active?

Just watched CNN fact check that news article with a democrat and a republican commenting, both of whom were quite clear that there never were any death panels in the health reform law but that inclusion of end of life counseling in the initial Medicare visit was in fact instituted by the Bush administration and expanded to yearly counseling by this admin.

FYI, counseling on various matters is very much a part of what doctors do everyday (nurses as well) and is reimbursed by Medicare. End-of-life documents may be legal but the subject matter is medical and lies squarely within their domain. Have you ever seen such a document? “Aunt Suzie” can specify for example (down to IV fluids and antibiotics), what treatment she will and will not accept if she falls and breaks a hip.

Also, as I have repeatedly said, bodies which decide standard of care and reimbursement requirements already do exist - within professional bodies and insurance companies respectively. Sadly it seems - as we learned recently from happenings in Arizona - that power also can be manipulated by politicians regardless of the opinions of professional bodies, but the governor belongs to the party of ‘life’, so no need for hysteria about death panels in Arizona - regardless of who actually lives or dies.
Personally, I don’t use the term “death panels” because it means different things to different people. I was talking about the “end of life conferences” funding ordered by Obama administratively. I am not impressed with the argument that “Bush started it”. Wrong is wrong, no matter who was the first to do it.

I have seen lots and lots of “living wills”, “advance directives” or whatever a particular person wants to call them. I also know lots of lawyers and lots of doctors, and most doctors will not claim they know the consequences of legal documents. The rest are fools to think they do.

How about an exercise here? Get one of the forms that are floating around out there and try to tailor it to your imaginable needs if you are currently healthy. Keep in mind that your life depends on what you write and how you express what you do and don’t want. Do you really want no IV fluids if you fall and break a hip? Can you be sure you won’t think differently if all you do is fall and break a hip? I recall Elton’s John’s song, written when he was young, expressing that “I have no wish to be living sixty years on.” Now that he’s sixty, would he say the same thing?

I also know people who have gone through that “initial end of life visit” with their doctor. Actually, that’s a “well person” exam, and nobody I have ever talked to was “counseled” by his/her doctor about “end of life care”. Nobody. Do you really think this government will allow doctors to bill for those annual visits without actually presenting whatever text HHS wants presented?

No, this represents the desire on the part of this government to present the alternatives of “non-care” and “self-termination” to older people, just as the (later withdrawn) military one did. Otherwise, it would be totally pointless and a needless expense to the government. Does anybody really think the HHS formulation is going to cover “if your condition eventually truns out to be X, your alternatives are Y1 through Y12. But if it’s “A”, your alternatives are “B1” through C18”. But if your condition turns out to be “D”…

No, it can’t do that or it would look like the New York City telephone book. So, it’s going to be what virtually all “living wills” say; very general descriptions of conditions one does not think he would like, and a fairly brief list of lifesaving measures, mostly described (necessarily) in a very general way. And, of course, the “poison pill” will be one of the alternatives, but it won’t be called that.

And the whole of the counseling and explanation of the document will be done by a nurse or an NP or a “counselor” hired by some outsource outfit acceptable to the government. And, of course, the government will at least say it will audit charts to ensure compliance. Who wants more Medicare fraud, after all? And providers who don’t do it to the government’s satisfaction will be in trouble if they don’t, right down to the “poison pill” alternative, however it’s disguised.

Sure, Christians should try to influence outcomes, including (and first) influencing congressional action to reverse this regulatory action.
 
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