Obama Told: Change Your Mind on Abortion b/c Unborn Children Feel Pain

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TheTrueCentrist said:
Then pro lifers ought to restrict their arguments to this line of reasoning. When you make testable claims such as “Change Your Mind on Abortion b/c Unborn Children Feel Pain” and end up being wrong, the whole position seems weak.
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There is no weakness in the position of TRUTH—only those who wish to bend it to conform to their own agenda.
 
My heart breaks as I read this thread and see that there are people who will stand by the idea that tearing apart a fellow human being is a CHOICE one can make. I guess nothing really should suprise us when we all know that through out history we have seen this happen time and time again. After the most infamos holocust people love to throw out well we can never let that happen again, to which I am always shocked that they cannot open their eyes to it happening right here on our own soil.

The lie of of it is okay because they cannot feel pain is just sick and any one who uses that excuse should really reevaluate his train of thought.

There is never an excuse to kill, another person especially one as lame as I am not ready.

One day this horror will end and I would hate to see so many people on the wrong side of the fence, I always wonder how those who fought with the Nazi’s or those Hutus felt about themselves when they realized that they were actually killing a fellow human, something that I am sure was nawing at them in the back of their head when it was happening.

There comes a time in our lives whether we are believers or not that we need to stand up for what is right because we will have to acount for when we didn’t either here or there. So please choose your postion with much care because someones life depends upon it. Please wake up to this.
 
tammy57 said:
… Any woman who is pregnant and does not want to be does not need our respect or permission to have the baby, raise it, give it away, or terminate the pregnancy. I stand back and respect her privacy and her right to exercise free will, a gift from God to her, not from God to her and YOU, or from God to her and ME.

What are you doing to fight for the right to life?

tammy57
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I don’t understand your reasoning. What part of an indiviual’s right-to-life does a mother-to-be exercise over an unborn child? An individual’s right-to-life is not defined nor determined by my respect or permission nor yours. And since when does an individual’s right-to-privacy trump another indiviual’s right-to-life? Is that same woman allowed to terminate her husband’s right-to-life if she decides he is interferring with her right-to-privacy?
 
JButky said:
In other words. I could care less about discussing or arguing opinions. I would rather have a rational discussion on the merits of the root issue. If we can do that, this ancillary issue becomes NON opinionated and can more easily be derived from subsequent reason.

Given your last post I really don’t think that discussion is possible. 😦

Joe B
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Joe, I realize you probably have years of education on me. I think of things in terms of stories. And in my opinion it is important to talk about and know when the unborn feel pain. It is important because how does a person feel knowing they are putting another living person through so much pain. It’s a question of morality and yes I know that someone who is pro-choice can dictate their own sense of morality in response but I think it’s important we not lose the ability to think of how these children are really being affected.

Have you ever had a relative or friend who is dying go without pain management? Have you ever watched them scream in agony? Well, my Mother and her siblings actually drug their mother out of a hospital screaming because that hospital wouldn’t manage her pain and she was in such agony. I realize that abortion becomes a heated topic, especially when you bring in opinions, but humanity isn’t really humanity without using reason and emotion. Just as often as you can use facts to prove your point you can use your opinions. It’s ethos, logos and pathos.

While I don’t agree with 90% of what Tammy beleives I think it’s a discredit to her and anyone else who has been affected by abortion issues to take opinion out of the discussion. It’s becuase of the way we are affected by things that dictate how we beleive. Even C.S. Lewis discovered this when he wrote, “A Grief Observed.” I don’t think you can separate real life exsperience from your beleifs are and opinions you have. He wrote so many books that have helped so many people find Jesus and then when truely tested with the worst experience of his life that set of rational beleifs was tested and that book has become one of his most quoted and most beloved books becuase it shows his humanity.

I’m not talking just about the abortion issue but about everything. You should have an opinion about all the important issues in your life. They can be based on reason, of course but they don’t have to be. And we should always be open to listening and open to learning through other peoples exsperiences and through what they feel having gone through those exsperiences. To ignore that closes off those who need to be heard that are suffering from why they now hold the beleifs they have. You might learn something through another persons opinions rather than just find a way to rationally discredit every argument presented to you, not that you are but I’m making the assumption that your goal is to prove abortion is wrong through rational means.
 
JimG said:
I’m suggesting that “sex education” as a formal curricula is a fairly recent phenomena, and the results seem in many ways to have been counterproductive.

We didn’t view 15 year old’s having sex or babies as normal or as the desired result of education, any more than we viewed the use of sterile needles by 15 year olds as a desirable result of drug education.

Many kids engage in sex today simply because no one has told them it’s wrong, unsafe, and unfair. But they’ve been told how to do it, and how to use condoms, so they figure it must be OK.
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I teach comprehensive sex education and I don’t view 15 year olds having sex or babies as normal or desired either. Where I live, it’s called rape because a child under the age of 15 is unable, by virtue of her age, considered unable to give informed consent to sex.

I teach children as young as 11 what the age of consent is and why we have it.

1 in 4 children are the victim of sexual abuse before the age of 18. I agree, it’s a tragedy. It’s why I also teach Protective Behaviours to children as young as 4.
 
JimG said:
A contraceptive mentality combined with lack of moral training. No one has ever told them that extramarital sex is wrong, that it is hurtful to women and to children, who end up abandoned, aborted, deserted, or without fathers.
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Irrespective what they are taught about sex outside marriage and what you consider to be a marriage, most do.

PREMARITAL SEX IS NEARLY UNIVERSAL AMONG AMERICANS, AND HAS BEEN FOR DECADES

guttmacher.org/media/nr/2006/12/19/index.html

“Don’t do it, because I said, it’s wrong because I said”, has, is and always has been a spectacular failure, even since Adam was a lad.
 
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