Obama- urges court, Gay Marriage ban

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Dawnia said:
Oral arguments are a tiny tiny part of a SCOTUS case. There is nothing to give any indication that orals have ever swayed a judge one way or another on any case. They likely have an idea of they are going to rule long before they get to orals.

I have listened to quite a number of oral arguments. Scalia was far quieter in Prop 8 and DOMA cases than usual. He has a very defined legal theory and is very opinionated about it. So what. Ginsberg also has a very defined opinion, yet no one can ever seem to hear her.
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The bottom line, of course, is that given his public behavior that he should recuse himself. If the case were subject to appeal, he probably would in order to avoid being reversed.
 
epan said:
I would strongly disagree with that statement. Comparing Santorum to Jesus is a ludicrous comparison, laughable in itself.
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He is not comparing Santorum to Jesus. Jesus was persecuted. We, Catholics, are also being persecuted. That does not mean that we are Jesus.
 
kelvinf said:
He is not comparing Santorum to Jesus. Jesus was persecuted. We, Catholics, are also being persecuted. That does not mean that we are Jesus.
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Oh come on… There are more than one billion Catholics. Methinks the Lady doth protest too much. Majority populations are not “persecuted”, in the same way that minorities are persecuted.

Now, if you are trying to say that it feels uncomfortable when minorities demand what they see as their rights from the majority… I would agree with you. Majority populations sometimes confuse this feeling with persecution.
 
epan said:
Oh come on… There are more than one billion Catholics. Methinks the Lady doth protest too much. Majority populations are not “persecuted”, in the same way that minorities are persecuted.

Now, if you are trying to say that it feels uncomfortable when minorities demand what they see as their rights from the majority… I would agree with you. Majority populations sometimes confuse this feeling with persecution.
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I have never heard that. When Jesus spoke about persecution, he never referred to majority or minority. Moreover one billion Catholics means we belong to the minority. 😉
 
kelvinf said:
I have never heard that. When Jesus spoke about persecution, he never referred to majority or minority. Moreover one billion Catholics means we belong to the minority. 😉
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As compared to homosexuals? You actually make my point for me.

The Catholic Church has centuries of political influence, billions or perhaps trillions in resources, more than a billion members. It is preposterous to talk of how it is being persecuted. It can stand up for itself, and it does so.

But I am curious about this persecution. Do you think it is only Catholics which are singled out, or is it Christians? If the latter, how are they a minority?
 
kelvinf said:
I have never heard that. When Jesus spoke about persecution, he never referred to majority or minority. Moreover one billion Catholics means we belong to the minority. 😉
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As compared to homosexuals? You actually make my point for me.

The Catholic Church has centuries of political influence, billions or perhaps trillions in resources, more than a billion members. It is preposterous to talk of how it is being persecuted. It can stand up for itself, and it does so.

The CC has been losing respect and influence for the past 50 years or more partly due to changes in society, but I would think primarily due to the behavior of its own clergy. Rather than look outside and blame others for the current situation, I think it would be more productive to look inwards and fix that which it has control over.

But I am curious about this persecution. Do you think it is only Catholics which are singled out, or is it Christians? If the latter, how are they a minority?
 
epan said:
I would strongly disagree with that statement. Comparing Santorum to Jesus is a ludicrous comparison, laughable in itself.
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Tsk, tsk! I made no such comparison, I merely used Jesus to indicate how loony tunes I believe far left circles are. A far left liberal friend of mine tells me that Obama is a conservative.

Why do liberals always accuse you of making a comparison if you put two people’s names in the same sentence. It’s the old Hitler thing. Well, Jesus was born two thousand years ago, and Hitler was born in 1889. What’s the comparison?
 
epan said:
As compared to homosexuals? You actually make my point for me.
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As compared to the remaining 6 billion.
The Catholic Church has centuries of political influence, billions or perhaps trillions in resources, more than a billion members. It is preposterous to talk of how it is being persecuted. It can stand up for itself, and it does so.
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You seem to have a completely different definition of ‘persecution’. Persecution has got nothing to do with size or what actions the victims take. The first reading yesterday was about the persecution of the apostles. They were being persecuted for preaching in the name of Jesus but they stood their ground. That’s what we are all called to do.
The CC has been losing respect and influence for the past 50 years or more partly due to changes in society, but I would think primarily due to the behavior of its own clergy. Rather than look outside and blame others for the current situation, I think it would be more productive to look inwards and fix that which it has control over.
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The Catholic Church is not about what people think or want it to be. The role of the Church is to guide and lead her flock. No one is forced to be part of our journey. We are satisfied with our Church. The problem actually is with people who don’t like our Church. But there is a message for them. Just translate the quote in my signature.
But I am curious about this persecution. Do you think it is only Catholics which are singled out, or is it Christians? If the latter, how are they a minority?
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When we look around the world, we see that Christians are being persecuted. That’s for sure. But I am currently talking about Catholics. Catholics are being persecuted for being Catholic and standing up for what we believe.
 
epan said:
As compared to homosexuals? You actually make my point for me.

The Catholic Church has centuries of political influence, billions or perhaps trillions in resources, more than a billion members. It is preposterous to talk of how it is being persecuted. It can stand up for itself, and it does so.

The CC has been losing respect and influence for the past 50 years or more partly due to changes in society, but I would think primarily due to the behavior of its own clergy. Rather than look outside and blame others for the current situation, I think it would be more productive to look inwards and fix that which it has control over.

But I am curious about this persecution. Do you think it is only Catholics which are singled out, or is it Christians? If the latter, how are they a minority?
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On a world scale, there are Catholic Churches in the world being bulldozed. Catholics are imprisoned, and discriminated against, treated as second class citizens because of their faith
 
Homosexual Activist Admits True Purpose of Battle is to Destroy Marriage
Even knowing that there are radicals in all movements, doesn’t lessen the startling admission recently by lesbian journalist Masha Gessen. On a radio show she actually admits that homosexual activists are lying about their radical political agenda. She says that they don’t want to access the institution of marriage; they want to radically redefine and eventually eliminate it.
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Here is what she recently said on a radio interview:
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“It’s a no-brainer that (homosexual activists) should have the right to marry, but I also think equally that it’s a no-brainer that the institution of marriage should not exist. …(F)ighting for gay marriage generally involves lying about what we are going to do with marriage when we get there — because we lie that the institution of marriage is not going to change, and that is a lie.
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The institution of marriage is going to change, and it should change. And again, I don’t think it should exist. And I don’t like taking part in creating fictions about my life. That’s sort of not what I had in mind when I came out thirty years ago.
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I have three kids who have five parents, more or less, and I don’t see why they shouldn’t have five parents legally… I met my new partner, and she had just had a baby, and that baby’s biological father is my brother, and my daughter’s biological father is a man who lives in Russia, and my adopted son also considers him his father. So the five parents break down into two groups of three… And really, I would like to live in a legal system that is capable of reflecting that reality, and I don’t think that’s compatible with the institution of marriage.”
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For quite some time, the defenders of natural marriage have attempted to point out that the true agenda behind the homosexual demands organizations is not marriage equality; it is the total unraveling of marriage and uprooting traditional values from society. (This will ultimately include efforts to silence and punish some churches that openly adhere to their religious teachings about marriage and sexual morality.)
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While few have been as vocal as this lesbian activist was in this interview, we do have numerical examples proving her point. When given the opportunity to marry, after laws have been struck down relatively small percentages of homosexuals actually bother to marry compared to their heterosexual counterparts. This raises question about the true need to unravel marriage for the “fair” extension its benefits. Only 12 percent of homosexuals in the Netherlands marry compared to 86 percent of their heterosexual peers. Less than 20 percent of same-sex couples already living together in California married when given the chance in 2008. In contrast, 91 percent of heterosexual couples in California who are living together are married.
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Clearly this is about cultural change and tearing down the traditional family ethic, since it seems that most homosexuals living together neither need nor desire to marry, though they do desire to radically change marriage.
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Gays and lesbians are free to live as they choose, and we live in a society which roundly applauds them doing so like never before in our history, but they do not have the right to rewrite marriage for all of society.
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