Obama vs Romney, who are you voting for and why?

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seekerz said:
I have great non-prudential reasons to not support Romney…of the sort that the Church clearly teaches. My purpose here however, is not to usurp other people’s rights to determine those FOR THEMSELVES. Like I’ve said before, each person owns his/her own conscience and they should be free to use it without being called names.
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That is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever seen a Catholic post. You have something important, that the Church “clearly teaches,” but you don’t want to share it with other Catholics because they need to decide for themselves? If it is something that the Church clearly teaches, and it isn’t a matter for prudential reasoning, you are duty bound as a Catholic to fraternally correct your fellow Catholics, so they don’t sin.
 
CMatt25 said:
Tongue and cheek doesn’t always come across on a screen.
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That’s where faith in your fellow man comes in, even if they disagree with the things you believe are done with the best of intensions. Just a little patience in understanding with differing points of view would help.

I must say though Matt, as many discussions as you and I have been in, and usually on opposite sides of the aurgumant :D, you always do just exactly that. We do disagree but you always seem fair in your evaluations of comments.
 
seekerz said:
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What I said was: I have realized what Romney is lacking with regard to leadership, but I will not share it until after the election because I don’t want to give you ideas. 😛

To me, he is the less acceptable candidate for other reasons which I am not free to dissect here. I would be happy to do so otherwise. Call it being cagey if you like…

I have great non-prudential reasons to not support Romney…of the sort that the Church clearly teaches. My purpose here however, is not to usurp other people’s rights to determine those FOR THEMSELVES. Like I’ve said before, each person owns his/her own conscience and they should be free to use it without being called names.
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That’s fine, you vote for the downfall of our country. But don’t be so preachy about, OBAMA IS MORALLY ABHORRENT, DECIDING HE"S GOT THE RIGHT TO EVEN DECIDE A BABY WHO SURVIVES ABORTION DOES NOT DESERVE LIFE! You like caps, good. Yeah, and those are great leadership qualities, Jill Stanek has written all about it. 😛
 
CMatt25 said:
I understand disagreeing on politics but I don’t understand why Catholic Romney voters think those of you who are practicing faithful Catholics voting for Obama do not have an informed conscience based on your church’s teachings. I think even some non Catholic voters are aware and informed of the Catholic Church teachings on abortion, SS unions, and perhaps even embryonic stem cell research. Several of you who are faithful and practicing have informed your consciences it seems and then have explained how your consicence is answering for you the question of the thread. If I’ve gotten anything from this thread it is there remains a lot of disagreement among all of you. God bless everyone here and peace be with all.
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Thanks, CMatt. The common assumption is that a Catholic with a fully-formed conscience cannot vote for Obama - that is simply not true and one might just as easily assume the same position with regard to his opponent. However, I will not.

I will simply caution people to think and read for themselves and not to simply accept ‘common’ wisdom about the candidates. No one should assume their side has a monopoly on concerns regarding religious freedom, respect for life and moral values. Everybody has values, standards and beliefs. The nature, clarity and underlying assumptions of those are central to any decision regarding who to support politically.
 
Lapey said:
I think you take this comment (sorry but I had to edit my post - took out reference to taking yourself too serious. That sounded uncharitable so I took it out.) way too serious, that comment was meant to be taken tongue and cheek. This is where we go wrong, you see this comment and then you come back, “look how mean and unintelligent this person is, because this is so telling.” No, you didn’t say this exactly, but you inferred it; and again take offense to the implications in your words about people who differ in opinions on this type of mislead policy.

This program did more to hurt private charitable donations, and the car industry, and the lower middle class than you are anyone on the left will ever care to admit. Artificial manipulation of the markets will and did affect the same market, and the same people the “good intensions” were meant to help.

But this is not the issue at hand, this is a distraction. Get back on track, why should I vote for Obama?
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Who are you kidding sir, Not all of us were born yesterday, and don’t tell me you are in the dark about the dog whistle or the code message.
Peace, Carlan
 
BroomWagon said:
That’s fine, you vote for the downfall of our country. But don’t be so preachy about, OBAMA IS MORALLY ABHORRENT, DECIDING HE"S GOT THE RIGHT TO EVEN DECIDE A BABY WHO SURVIVES ABORTION DOES NOT DESERVE LIFE! You like caps, good. Yeah, and those are great leadership qualities, Jill Stanek has written all about it. 😛
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Have a cup of coffee, and take a few deep breaths. Then tell us how you really feel about God giving each human being his/her own conscience…🙂
 
Carlan said:
Who are you kidding sir, Not all of us were born yesterday, and don’t tell me you are in the dark about the dog whistle or the code message.
Peace, Carlan
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Oh boy…Carlan’s hearing more dog whistles… Why is it that you are you able to hear them, if they are dog whistles? 😉
 
Swiss_Guy said:
Kind of judgmental don’t you think? Saying they don’t care about the poor is a big jump from saying in your prudential judgment their policies won’t help the poor.

Maybe Catholics are concerned about gay marriage because it harms the family. A strong family helps the poor since much of poverty is from not having an intact family. Gay marriage and the poor are interconnected. It’s like how some people see a divide from social justice (i.e helping the poor) and abortion; they are all a part of social justice.
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Absolutely! And, btw, guess who’s given MILLIONS to charity? Obama - no. Biden - no. Romney - YES! Mitt Romney has literally GIVEN millions of his own dollars TO CHARITY. THAT is “not caring about the poor?” :banghead:
 
Carlan said:
Who are you kidding sir, Not all of us were born yesterday, and don’t tell me you are in the dark about the dog whistle or the code message.
Peace, Carlan
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Please help me understand this code and how does a dog wistle matter, we can’t even hear it? HELP!!!:confused:
 
seekerz said:
Have a cup of coffee, and take a few deep breaths. Then tell us how you really feel about God giving each human being his/her own conscience…🙂
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You DO know about the need to have a WELL and PROPERLY FORMED conscience don’t you? :hmmm:
 
rlg94086 said:
That is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever seen a Catholic post. You have something important, that the Church “clearly teaches,” but you don’t want to share it with other Catholics because they need to decide for themselves? If it is something that the Church clearly teaches, and it isn’t a matter for prudential reasoning, you are duty bound as a Catholic to fraternally correct your fellow Catholics, so they don’t sin.
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I’ve limit my ‘fraternal’ correction to exhorting my fellow Catholics to read the Catechism, the 10 commandments, all religious beliefs relevant to the choice they are about to make…that sort of thing. It is not my role to think for anyone, to substitute for what the bishops have already said on the matter, or to chastise/insult people as a means of ‘correcting’ them.
 
DavidinStLouis said:
You DO know about the need to have a WELL and PROPERLY FORMED conscience don’t you? :hmmm:
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Trust me. It has been pointed out. You are being arrogant and judgmental to even mention it (in the eyes of Catholics who are voting for the pro-choice, pro-“gay marriage,” economic disaster president).
 
seekerz said:
No one should assume their side has a monopoly on concerns regarding religious freedom, respect for life and moral values.
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Perhaps not, but the hard evidence and facts (HHS mandate, etc.) show without doubt what THIS PRESIDENT’S opinions are on religious freedom (against), respect for life (little) and ‘moral values’. 😦
 
seekerz said:
I’ve limit my ‘fraternal’ correction to exhorting my fellow Catholics to read the Catechism, the 10 commandments, all religious beliefs relevant to the choice they are about to make…that sort of thing. It is not my role to think for anyone, to substitute for what the bishops have already said on the matter, or to chastise/insult people as a means of ‘correcting’ them.
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In other words, you’ve got nothing. If you did, you would share it.

From the Catechism: “charity demands beneficence and fraternal correction”

Perhaps, you missed that part…

Now, if you have some relevant, non-prudential matter, please share. If not, please stop making stuff up.
 
DavidinStLouis said:
Perhaps not, but the hard evidence and facts (HHS mandate, etc.) show without doubt what THIS PRESIDENT’S opinions are on religious freedom (against), respect for life (little) and ‘moral values’. 😦
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And his opinions are all that are relevant? What about Romney’s? Does he uphold “believe and let believe”? What does he uphold regarding the issues surrounding human reproduction? What principles are the foundation of his value system? Those are all pertinent questions which I have researched in detail. They reassure me less than Obama’s.

Is my personal stance a problem for you?
 
seekerz said:
Thanks, CMatt. The common assumption is that a Catholic with a fully-formed conscience cannot vote for Obama - that is simply not true and one might just as easily assume the same position with regard to his opponent. However, I will not.

**I will simply caution people to think and read for themselves and not to simply accept ‘common’ wisdom about the candidates. No one should assume their side has a monopoly on concerns regarding religious freedom, respect for life and moral values. **Everybody has values, standards and beliefs. The nature, clarity and underlying assumptions of those are central to any decision regarding who to support politically.
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I will caution you with the same statement you caution me with. And as to the second statement I placed in bold type, I would say reading the democrat party platform would allow these “assumptions” as you state them to be backed up with fact, don’t you agree???👍
 
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