Obama won Catholic vote, regular churchgoers chose Romney [CC]

[JimG]

Going by the statistics I’ve seen on CNN, a majority of weekly church-goers voted for Romney, and a majority of non-weekly churchgoers or non-churchgoers voted for Obama. I presume that includes Catholics. So Catholics who attend Mass weekly voted mostly against Obama, while many of those who attend infrequently voted in favor of Obama.

It’s obvious that many self-identified Catholics voted for Obama. This president has been known since his days in the Illinois legislature as staunchly favoring ‘abortion rights,’ even to the point of voting almost alone against the Illinois Born Alive Infant Protection Act. He has never wavered in his pro-abortion views.

It seems to me that a great many Catholics simply have no problem with a million unborn children killed each year in their mothers’ wombs. Or they take they position that, well, a million abortions are going to happen anyway, so it doesn’t matter if I vote for a pro-abortion candidate. This of course, is contrary to the position of the Catholic bishops who think that abortion does matter.

Many Catholics also apparently have no problem with same-sex marriage, with the destruction of embryos, or with the government forcing Catholic institutions to violate their own principles or go out of business. Yet the bishops have spoken forcefully against all these things.

Many Catholics have simply caved in to the corrupt culture of the times. I can understand how that happens. But it is a far cry from other eras of the Church in which it resisted the culture of the times and converted the culture instead of caving in to it.

On the other hand, there is good news for Thomas Frank. Kansas voted for Romney by a 60% margin. This will give him the opportunity to write another book.

 

[maryjk]

I admire your service and would love to join you if I were an American. But I disagree with your assessment of the situation. Parental failures in providing good upbringing cannot be blamed on legislations.

My wife conceived the second time at the age of 43 and the doctor told us that there is significant chance of a deformed baby and advised us to opt for abortion. We refused and were prepared to bring up a deformed baby. The Laws in our country gave us the liberty to decide for or against abortion but our upbringing was good and we could never be so selfish. It was not a sacrifice but mere duty driven by conscience.

How do you conclude that those who made the Laws are less concerned than you about this social evil. They love their daughters and sisters as much as you do. **Obama has conscience and feelings that are as good as that of Mother Teresa. **Maligning him and wrongly attributing the whole evil to be his making, is totally unfair.

Sorry, Blessed Mother Teresa is on the way to sainthood. Obama, not so much.

 

[Pitcharan]

TROLL ALERT!

You’re just here to start fights… IMO.

I cannot comment on your opinion but I am not here to fight.

 

[jediliz]

I admire your service and would love to join you if I were an American. But I disagree with your assessment of the situation. Parental failures in providing good upbringing cannot be blamed on legislations.

My wife conceived the second time at the age of 43 and the doctor told us that there is significant chance of a deformed baby and advised us to opt for abortion. We refused and were prepared to bring up a deformed baby. The Laws in our country gave us the liberty to decide for or against abortion but our upbringing was good and we could never be so selfish. It was not a sacrifice but mere duty driven by conscience.

How do you conclude that those who made the Laws are less concerned than you about this social evil. They love their daughters and sisters as much as you do. Obama has conscience and feelings that are as good as that of Mother Teresa. Maligning him and wrongly attributing the whole evil to be his making, is totally unfair.

Comparing Obama to BLESSED Mother Teresa? Here are some quotes from her for you to ponder:

**The greatest destroyer of peace is abortion because if a mother can kill her own child, what is left for me to kill you and you to kill me? There is nothing between.

It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish.**

**“How can there be too many children? That is like saying there are too many flowers.” **

 

[Pitcharan]

Sorry, Blessed Mother Teresa is on the way to sainthood. Obama, not so much.

Can’t you see the radiant glow on his face? God is with him and will uphold him with His righteous right hand.

 

[Pitcharan]

Comparing Obama to BLESSED Mother Teresa? Here are some quotes from her for you to ponder:

**The greatest destroyer of peace is abortion because if a mother can kill her own child, what is left for me to kill you and you to kill me? There is nothing between.

It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish.**

**“How can there be too many children? That is like saying there are too many flowers.” **

Those were addressed to those who abort. Legislators are as helpless as Moses was and are also as blameless as Moses.

 

[pete_29]

Can’t you see the radiant glow on his face? God is with him and will uphold him with His righteous right hand.

It’s called make-up. He is on Tv after all.

 

[BroomWagon]

Those were addressed to those who abort. Legislators are as helpless as Moses was and are also as blameless as Moses.

Addressed to those who abort? Proof?

Okay, Obama aborts, he is a big supporter of it. All who voted for Obama and such politicians abort.

Mother Teresa addressed that to the world.

 

[BroomWagon]

Actually, the Pill, the Sexual Revolution, Abortion may be having dire consequences on society.

 

[JimG]

Those were addressed to those who abort. Legislators are as helpless as Moses was and are also as blameless as Moses.

It was part of Mother Teresa’s acceptance speech when she was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize:

“We are talking of peace. These are things that break peace, but I feel the greatest destroyer of peace today is abortion, because it is a direct war, a direct killing - direct murder by the mother herself.”
–Mother Teresa

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Going by the statistics I’ve seen on CNN, a majority of weekly church-goers voted for Romney, and a majority of non-weekly churchgoers or non-churchgoers voted for Obama. I presume that includes Catholics. So Catholics who attend Mass weekly voted mostly against Obama, while many of those who attend infrequently voted in favor of Obama.

It’s obvious that many self-identified Catholics voted for Obama. This president has been known since his days in the Illinois legislature as staunchly favoring ‘abortion rights,’ even to the point of voting almost alone against the Illinois Born Alive Infant Protection Act. He has never wavered in his pro-abortion views.

It seems to me that a great many Catholics simply have no problem with a million unborn children killed each year in their mothers’ wombs. Or they take they position that, well, a million abortions are going to happen anyway, so it doesn’t matter if I vote for a pro-abortion candidate. This of course, is contrary to the position of the Catholic bishops who think that abortion does matter.

Many Catholics also apparently have no problem with same-sex marriage, with the destruction of embryos, or with the government forcing Catholic institutions to violate their own principles or go out of business. Yet the bishops have spoken forcefully against all these things.

Many Catholics have simply caved in to the corrupt culture of the times. I can understand how that happens. But it is a far cry from other eras of the Church in which it resisted the culture of the times and converted the culture instead of caving in to it.

On the other hand, there is good news for Thomas Frank. Kansas voted for Romney by a 60% margin. This will give him the opportunity to write another book.

59% of regular churchgoers supported Romney, and 39% of regular churchgoers supported Obama. 62% of people who did not attend service regularly supported Obama, and 38% supported Romney. It’s wasn’t a 100% sweep either way.

All Catholics have repeated over and over that they oppose abortion. I cannot think of a single Catholic who has spoken on these forums in favor of abortion. It’s not true that ‘they have no problem with it’. Some sincerely question why nothing substantial has been done, or tried, by republicans, when they’ve had opportunity. Since Roe vs Wade, Republicans have had the majority of administrations. During Bush’s 8 years, 2 with control of the house and senate, the supreme court was made up of 7 justices appointed by republicans and 2 appointed by democrats.

I’ve seen many arguments that republicans believe government cannot/should not force social justice, but that same government can legislate morality in other areas? Those arguments include references to Jesus and that He did not say to feed the hungry, give shelter to the poor, care for the sick, etc. with government. Where does His teachings tell us to force the commandments, or the morality of those commandments, through government?

We should be seeking a conversion of the heart. Instead, we spend time arguing over which political party can give a more righteous government. I don’t think man can give us righteous, or justice. Only He can. We, men, cannot even slow down enough to try and find an agreement with each other, much less try and get others to agree with our faith.

Reading through these forums I fail to see the love one another as He loved us. I failed to see us looking at the beam in our own eye while looking for the splinter in our brother’s eye. None of us are perfect, and errors are not always intentional as they are made out to be. If any of other person’s errors are correctable, they will not be corrected through any less than love and charity, and the goals being championed as right will be lost.

As laypersons, we should approach our prelates and seek a unified and clear guidance from them. I know there are those who say they Church has spoken clearly, yet Catholics remain divided and express how their views differ. We should seek a clarification that all can see clearly, as we claim to see. The Church is obligated to the flock to do that. If it doesn’t, then it speaks to the possibility that things are as intended and not as narrowed as some say.

Whatever happens, the name calling, doubting other people’s faith, and other castigation should stop. That’s not something assigned to the laity by Christ, or the Church. It is not corrective and only provides to maintain division.

 

[JimG]

59% of regular churchgoers supported Romney, and 39% of regular churchgoers supported Obama. 62% of people who did not attend service regularly supported Obama, and 38% supported Romney. It’s wasn’t a 100% sweep either way.

All Catholics have repeated over and over that they oppose abortion. I cannot think of a single Catholic who has spoken on these forums in favor of abortion. It’s not true that ‘they have no problem with it’. Some sincerely question why nothing substantial has been done, or tried, by republicans, when they’ve had opportunity. Since Roe vs Wade, Republicans have had the majority of administrations. During Bush’s 8 years, 2 with control of the house and senate, the supreme court was made up of 7 justices appointed by republicans and 2 appointed by democrats.

I’ve seen many arguments that republicans believe government cannot/should not force social justice, but that same government can legislate morality in other areas? Those arguments include references to Jesus and that He did not say to feed the hungry, give shelter to the poor, care for the sick, etc. with government. Where does His teachings tell us to force the commandments, or the morality of those commandments, through government?

We should be seeking a conversion of the heart. Instead, we spend time arguing over which political party can give a more righteous government. I don’t think man can give us righteous, or justice. Only He can. We, men, cannot even slow down enough to try and find an agreement with each other, much less try and get others to agree with our faith.

Reading through these forums I fail to see the love one another as He loved us. I failed to see us looking at the beam in our own eye while looking for the splinter in our brother’s eye. None of us are perfect, and errors are not always intentional as they are made out to be. If any of other person’s errors are correctable, they will not be corrected through any less than love and charity, and the goals being championed as right will be lost.

As laypersons, we should approach our prelates and seek a unified and clear guidance from them. I know there are those who say they Church has spoken clearly, yet Catholics remain divided and express how their views differ. We should seek a clarification that all can see clearly, as we claim to see. The Church is obligated to the flock to do that. If it doesn’t, then it speaks to the possibility that things are as intended and not as narrowed as some say.

Whatever happens, the name calling, doubting other people’s faith, and other castigation should stop. That’s not something assigned to the laity by Christ, or the Church. It is not corrective and only provides to maintain division.

I agree that government cannot make us ‘righteous,’ a term which I never use. But government can actively promote evil, and I find it odd that Catholics would support such a government. I am not doubting anyone’s faith. I only wonder at the seeming political application of that faith.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I agree that government cannot make us ‘righteous,’ a term which I never use. But government can actively promote evil, and I find it odd that Catholics would support such a government. I am not doubting anyone’s faith. I only wonder at the seeming political application of that faith.

Jim,

Just as government can promote evil, it can intentionally do nothing to stop an evil for other reasons. Just as you find it odd that Catholics would support, other Catholics find it odd that some Catholics cannot see lack of action by the other side.

That’s why Christ built a Church, and told us to have faith in God, without including any government.

 

[JimG]

Jim,

Just as government can promote evil, it can intentionally do nothing to stop an evil for other reasons. Just as you find it odd that Catholics would support, other Catholics find it odd that some Catholics cannot see lack of action by the other side.

That’s why Christ built a Church, and told us to have faith in God, without including any government.

Of course. He didn’t prohibit us from political action, however. There are some Christian denominations which forgo all political action. Catholics do not. Whether one agrees with the designation of many issues as non-negotiable, certainly the hierarachy has ranked them as very important, so there is nothing wrong with Catholics opposing politicians who espouse them.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Of course. He didn’t prohibit us from political action, however. There are some Christian denominations which forgo all political action. Catholics do not. Whether one agrees with the designation of many issues as non-negotiable, certainly the hierarachy has ranked them as very important, so there is nothing wrong with Catholics opposing politicians who espouse them.

I agree, but where is the wrong in doubting other politicians? Isn’t that something that only one can see in their individual conscience?

 

[benjammin]

Can’t you see the radiant glow on his face? God is with him and will uphold him with His righteous right hand.

More like he is going to hell and the devil will burn him to a crisp

 

[Pitcharan]

It was part of Mother Teresa’s acceptance speech when she was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize:

“We are talking of peace. These are things that break peace, but I feel the greatest destroyer of peace today is abortion, because it is a direct war, a direct killing - direct murder by the mother herself.”
–Mother Teresa

…direct murder by the mother herself, NOT by the lawmakers.

 

[Lapey]

I agree, but where is the wrong in doubting other politicians? Isn’t that something that only one can see in their individual conscience?

Why is it you are still only doubting Romney and/or republicans? There is no need to doubt Obama, is there? We know what he stands for.

It always seems you are on the other side of this debate. What do you really believe, I couldn’t say because your words give mixed messages; just my humble opinion.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Actually, the Pill, the Sexual Revolution, Abortion may be having dire consequences on society.

Of at least passing interest may be some studies recently done on the effect of ovulation and contraception in “partner selection” and potential birth defects. It appears that during ovulation, women emit pheremones and are receptive to pheremones that tend to cause both parties to be attracted if their immune systems are complementary. On the other hand, chemical contraception causes a change in pheremones that tend to cause women to choose “Mr Wrong” instead of “Mr. Right” in terms of ongoing attractiveness and immune system complementariness. Contraception, then, may well be the cause of unhappy outcomes in terms of both genetics and duration of the relationship.

If all of that is so, it strongly suggests that the “contraceptive mentality” about which Pope Paul VI spoke, really does encourage relationship failures and could further result in birth defects due to inappropriate DNA matching. In that event, all of the whole range of “anti-life” features that are so celebrated in this society and so promoted by this administration, are collectively self-perpetuating and the problems they create are self-magnifying.

 

[JimG]

…direct murder by the mother herself, NOT by the lawmakers.

Yes, but enabled and encouraged by lawmakers–lawmakers who favor unrestricted abortion, taxpayer supported abortion, lack of parental notification, and oppose any restrictions on abortion whatsoever. One who enables evil is not blameless.