obamacare marital separation

[royal_archer]

If you want to pretend you are not married by getting a separation or divorce - but not really be living separately nor consider yourself separated or divorced in order to qualify for some public assistance - then you are trying to break the rules … that is exactly what you are doing - that is Fraud

Here let me help you out here …

Definition of FRAUD:
the wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.
“he was convicted of fraud”
synonyms: fraudulence, cheating, swindling, embezzlement, deceit, deception, double-dealing, chicanery, sharp practice; pharming
“he was arrested for fraud”
swindle, racket, deception, trick, cheat, hoax;
informalscam, con, rip-off, sting, gyp, fiddle, bunco, hustle, grift
“social insurance frauds”

You are specifically proposing deception intended to result in financial gain

Basically you are spending time here instead of working to earn more tax money. you have chosen a path that results in less money going to the government, are you committing fraud? obviously not because there in no criminal act.

So what law is being broken by remaining faithful to someone whom you are no longer civilly married to?

What law is being broken by a divorced woman going on welfare?

What law is being broken by a person on welfare having marital relations?

 

[YADA]

Hey look it’s Royal Archer in a couple years.

Yes …though sadly as I said in an earlier post - if his wife participates - she too is committing fraud … and see Royal Archer - Fraud is exactly what they were charged with

nydailynews.com/news/national/seattle-couple-living-lakeside-luxury-found-guilty-welfare-fraud-18-months-prison-article-1.1165485

Read more: nydailynews.com/news/national/seattle-couple-living-lakeside-luxury-found-guilty-welfare-fraud-18-months-prison-article-1.1165485#ixzz2icHOiFGj

 

[royal_archer]

But you still have to pay for Obamacare for you and your kids.

yes.

 

[YADA]

actually I only referenced what happened in year one, year two was much worse. And I just found out they are taking away my health care plan and I don’t know what a new plan will cost but I fear the rates will sky rocket again.

By the way, even before obamacare hit we were debating a second residence closer to my work for gas savings and reduce the amount time I spent on the road after long work days.

Why not just move closer to your work period - why a second home? Especially as you are so money conscious … live closer to your work and stop trying to plot a crime …

Did you read the article?

Did you read the definition of Fraud?

 

[Jon_S_1]

Yes …though sadly as I said in an earlier post - if his wife participates - she too is committing fraud … and see Royal Archer - Fraud is exactly what they were charged with

nydailynews.com/news/national/seattle-couple-living-lakeside-luxury-found-guilty-welfare-fraud-18-months-prison-article-1.1165485

Read more: nydailynews.com/news/national/seattle-couple-living-lakeside-luxury-found-guilty-welfare-fraud-18-months-prison-article-1.1165485#ixzz2icHOiFGj

Yes please royal archer tell us how this couple was any different.

They weren’t married,

The lady rented a home from the man

They perhaps had marital relations from time to time.

They are going to jail.

See ya, enjoy your new cell mate!

 

[Starrsmother]

Bottom line is there are 3 valid questions here–

1. Would doing this be morally correct?
   Answer: No. Most likely not. Especially if you did something illegal to achieve your goal it would be morally wrong.
2. Would this be legally do-able assuming you and your wife told the whole truth all the while you applied?
   Answer: Probably not–though I’ve heard some crazy stories about people getting signed up for food stamps when they knew they didn’t need them or technically qualify but there is such a push for the use of these in our post-Obama USA that I’m gonna hedge and say “probably” not. Most likely you’d have to be willing to lie just to get approved–in which case, at least refer to answer 1.
3. Is there a legal way of doing this–or perhaps a way that is not actually illegal?
   I’m not a lawyer and I don’t have any idea. If you have a friend in that business ask him or her–and then let me know the answer! LOL!

 

[YADA]

Basically you are spending time here instead of working to earn more tax money. you have chosen a path that results in less money going to the government, are you committing fraud? obviously not because there in no criminal act.

So what law is being broken by remaining faithful to someone whom you are no longer civilly married to?

What law is being broken by a divorced woman going on welfare?

What law is being broken by a person on welfare having marital relations?

Really - intent matters …

Are you equating your pretending to have a failed marriage and separate residences - when you don’t have either - merely to gain welfare benefits with a situation where a woman seeks a divorce because her husband has become addicted to drugs and abandons the family?

You break the law when you pretend something that is an illusion for personal gain … did you read about the couple arrested for fraud?

 

[royal_archer]

Hey look it’s Royal Archer in a couple years.

nydailynews.com/news/national/seattle-couple-living-lakeside-luxury-found-guilty-welfare-fraud-18-months-prison-article-1.1165485

Seattle couple living in lakeside luxury found guilty of welfare fraud, get 18 months in prison
Chiropractor David Silverstein, 60, and Lyudmila Shimonova, 53, Seattle couple living in a lakeside mansion, were given the maximum sentence Friday for welfare fraud.

Read more: nydailynews.com/news/national/seattle-couple-living-lakeside-luxury-found-guilty-welfare-fraud-18-months-prison-article-1.1165485#ixzz2icHOiFGj

Thanks for the reference.
I see a lot of this type of thing (on a smaller scale) going on and I never saw anyone punished for it.

 

[royal_archer]

Really - intent matters …

Are you equating your pretending to have a failed marriage and separate residences - when you don’t have either - merely to gain welfare benefits with a situation where a woman seeks a divorce because her husband has become addicted to drugs and abandons the family?

where did that come from?

I didn’t say pretend to do anything, I was thinking about legitimately altering some aspects of my life to comply with the law.

You break the law when you pretend something that is an illusion for personal gain … did you read about the couple arrested for fraud?

You only break the law when you pretend something that is an illusion for personal gain which is in direct violation of the law. A couple that is unhappy but puts on the illusion of being happily married and files a joint return is not breaking the law.

Yes, I did read that article and have no interest in following in their foot steps. It clarified what was allowable and not allowable under the law.

 

[Jon_S_1]

where did that come from?

I didn’t say pretend to do anything, I was thinking about legitimately altering some aspects of my life to comply with the law.

You only break the law when you pretend something that is an illusion for personal gain which is in direct violation of the law. A couple that is unhappy but puts on the illusion of being happily married and files a joint return is not breaking the law.

Yes, I did read that article and have no interest in following in their foot steps. It clarified what was allowable and not allowable under the law.

Stop saying “to comply with the law”

You rant being asked to comply to anything.

You are looking to circumvent and violate the law.

Big difference!

 

[royal_archer]

Why not just move closer to your work period - why a second home? Especially as you are so money conscious … live closer to your work and stop trying to plot a crime …

Did you read the article?

Did you read the definition of Fraud?

I don’t move closer because the family has roots in the town where our house is.

I really wish you would cease the false accusations that I intend to commit a crime! I have repeatedly stated I am trying to understand the law so I can follow it.

your definition of fraud lacked legal clarity.

 

[YADA]

Basically you are spending time here instead of working to earn more tax money. you have chosen a path that results in less money going to the government, are you committing fraud? obviously not because there in no criminal act.

And I have a job and own a company that provides employment for others … so I am not choosing a path that is cheating the government at all - you know nothing about me …

I do not spend my time trying to get on welfare, food stamps and other public services … when my children were young - I could have qualified for welfare and food stamps - while I attended college on the GI Bill - and I believe I earned that GI Bill education - though you may feel like that was a welfare program … I never applied for welfare or food stamps … I did shop for back to school clothes at the Bishop’s Attic - second hand store … and while I am sure that my daughter might have preferred to start first grade with a brand new coat - I got her the best coat I could afford at the Bishop’s Attic … and she survived just fine …

We lived in a single wide 2 bedroom trailer - 2 adults, 3 children …

Even today - we come together as a family and help each other out … and we don’t seek public assistance - especially as a general rule - and I would be appalled if my spouse or children were plotting to game the system as you are …

 

[royal_archer]

Stop saying “to comply with the law”

You rant being asked to comply to anything.

You are looking to circumvent and violate the law.

Big difference!

Please cease with the malicious false accusations.

looking to understand the law so as to take advantage of it is NOT violating the law.

 

[Jon_S_1]

1.2. The legal definition of welfare fraud in California law
Welfare fraud takes place when people make false statements or fail to report important information when applying for these types of public programs in order to receive benefits to which they are not otherwise entitled.

Most instances of California welfare fraud are prohibited under Welfare and Institutions Code 10980 WIC. You violate this law by

deliberately misstating information or failing to provide relevant information in order to obtain, retain or increase undeserved welfare benefits,

applying for benefits under more than one name or by filing multiple applications to obtain multiple benefits, and/or

using, transferring, acquiring, purchasing, selling, possessing, altering or counterfeiting

(a) authorizations to receive food stamps, or

(b) actual food stamps.2

 

[Jon_S_1]

Please cease with the malicious false accusations.

looking to understand the law so as to take advantage of it is NOT violating the law.

So, here’s the deal. You are offended that I call you on the carpet about this fraud and manipulation.

I am offended that even from a moral position and Supposedly catholic position, you would do such a thing.

You did not answer, but if you truly are catholic, I would ask that you go to your priest, detail your plans and see what he says.

 

[royal_archer]

Bottom line is there are 3 valid questions here–

good questions.

1. Would doing this be morally correct?
   Answer: No. Most likely not. Especially if you did something illegal to achieve your goal it would be morally wrong.

If illegal, then it would be off the table. However, taking that aside, at what point would taking welfare when it is not needed be immoral vs overly scrupulous?

1. Would this be legally do-able assuming you and your wife told the whole truth all the while you applied?
   Answer: Probably not–though I’ve heard some crazy stories about people getting signed up for food stamps when they knew they didn’t need them or technically qualify but there is such a push for the use of these in our post-Obama USA that I’m gonna hedge and say “probably” not. Most likely you’d have to be willing to lie just to get approved–in which case, at least refer to answer 1.

That is what I am really trying to figure out here, not have some people automatically assume I would lie and then based on that false presumption start accusing me of crimes.

1. Is there a legal way of doing this–or perhaps a way that is not actually illegal?
   I’m not a lawyer and I don’t have any idea. If you have a friend in that business ask him or her–and then let me know the answer! LOL!

That is what I am trying to find out but instead of paying a lawyer to explain it from start to finish, I am trying to get the basic info so I can determine if it is worth going to a lawyer and from there, actually putting in serious consideration.

 

[YADA]

Please cease with the malicious false accusations.

looking to understand the law so as to take advantage of it is NOT violating the law.

Royal Archer -

You said you were going to end your ‘civil’ marriage by divorce or separation but not end your sacramental union … specifically to get benefits …

You said you do not really intend to live in separate residences - as individuals living totally separate lives - but merely make that appearance for the sake of gaining benefits …

This entire scenario you have laid out is focused upon gaining some benefit … by the appearance of being apart living independent lives when you won’t actually be independent …

Sorry - you can be hurt by the truth - but the truth is you are only trying to understand the law in order to find a way to circumvent the law - by illusion … that is fraud and that is wrong … there can be no sugar coating …

and since I do have to work in the AM - its time I hit the rack …

Please - in a few years - when they catch up to you - and you join that couple form Seattle - have them publish your moniker in the news - so we know its you

 

[royal_archer]

1.2. The legal definition of welfare fraud in California law
Welfare fraud takes place when people make false statements or fail to report important information when applying for these types of public programs in order to receive benefits to which they are not otherwise entitled.

Most instances of California welfare fraud are prohibited under Welfare and Institutions Code 10980 WIC. You violate this law by

deliberately misstating information or failing to provide relevant information in order to obtain, retain or increase undeserved welfare benefits,

applying for benefits under more than one name or by filing multiple applications to obtain multiple benefits, and/or

using, transferring, acquiring, purchasing, selling, possessing, altering or counterfeiting

(a) authorizations to receive food stamps, or

(b) actual food stamps.2

And I would have never even thought about doing any of these things.

 

[Jon_S_1]

And I would have never even thought about doing any of these things.

But if you say,

“We got divorced for the sole reason to collect welfare, and we still mostly are married”

Then you will not be approved.

You will leave out such important facts.

 

[Usige]

Really I don’t know what to say. Yes, I despise the government trying to redestribute wealth. I am not happy that I paid more in taxes last year then one of my unmarried sisters has in 10 years. But I care even less for someone who trys to game the system.

Every person who commits fraud or plays the system doesn’t hurt others committing fraud. They impact people like me who already pay 10s of thousands in taxes. That pocket you are reaching into isn’t the couple shacked up across the street, but rather mine and the rest of us that pay taxes. Your plan just shift more cost to me and others like me. How would you feel if I shifted the financial burden of my wife and 6 kids to you instead? Hey I got the money, but if I can you to pay for it great. More for me.

You say you respect the sanctity of marriage, but at the same time you want to play legal games that undermine the very foundation of marriage. What you propose further errodes marriage and you spit on everyone of us that fight day after day to uphold traditional marriage.

It doesn’t matter if you can find a legal way to do it, its morally reprehensible. I would not want to explain how I worked the system to my advantage on judgement day.