Obamacare marketplace premiums in Florida lower than expected

[Julianna]

This actually is an empirical question, so it might help to look at the data.

If you look at the average hours worked data it does not appear like it is going down and that appears to be across all sectors of the economy. So it may be that these stories of firms cutting hours are merely anecdotal because the systematic data does not seem to show such an effect.

bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t18.htm

My daughter works retail in the mall. Every store in the mall has cut employees to 25 hours and less. Darden…who owns Olive Garden/Red Lobster have cut tbeir employees to the same. Papa Johns Pizza the same. Food service and retail have done this to avoid Obamacare. Ask anyone who works in the service sector.

Her manager gathered the sales clerks and told them this…and why.

 

[stinkcat_14]

My daughter works retail in the mall. Every store in the mall has cut employees to 25 hours and less. Darden…who owns Olive Garden/Red Lobster have cut tbeir employees to the same. Papa Johns Pizza the same. Food service and retail have done this to avoid Obamacare. Ask anyone who works in the service sector.

Her manager gathered the sales clerks and told them this…and why.

That may be true, but the effect of this has not shown up in the data. So the bulk of businesses don’t appear to be cutting hours. If they were, we should see average hours of work going down.

 

[SaintAugustine]

That may be true, but the effect of this has not shown up in the data. So the bulk of businesses don’t appear to be cutting hours. If they were, we should see average hours of work going down.

Spoken like someone who buries his nose in statistics rather than paying attention to real life…

 

[SaintAugustine]

My daughter works retail in the mall. Every store in the mall has cut employees to 25 hours and less. Darden…who owns Olive Garden/Red Lobster have cut tbeir employees to the same. Papa Johns Pizza the same. Food service and retail have done this to avoid Obamacare. Ask anyone who works in the service sector.

Her manager gathered the sales clerks and told them this…and why.

This is not a new tactic btw…when I was younger, I worked for BofA. They paid a decent hourly for tellers ($12/hr in 1988), but only P/T without benefits. Companies aren’t stupid.

 

[ProVobis]

My daughter works retail in the mall. Every store in the mall has cut employees to 25 hours and less. Darden…who owns Olive Garden/Red Lobster have cut tbeir employees to the same. Papa Johns Pizza the same. Food service and retail have done this to avoid Obamacare. Ask anyone who works in the service sector.

Her manager gathered the sales clerks and told them this…and why.

Perhaps they’re not aware that the implementation of this part of Obamacare, the company mandate (applying to 50 employees or more, 30 hours or more), has been delayed by at least a year. Methinks this will be rescinded permanently.

 

[stinkcat_14]

Spoken like someone who buries his nose in statistics rather than paying attention to real life…

Are you saying there is a problem with the data? If so, what is wrong with the data? Or are you saying that the data does not fit your preconceived notions so therefore we should ignore it?

 

[Julianna]

Are you saying there is a problem with the data? If so, what is wrong with the data? Or are you saying that the data does not fit your preconceived notions so therefore we should ignore it?

The data is outdated and there is more to come. I have read every business article I can find and how it will trickle down with Obamacare. Starting with the CEO of Papa John’s Pizza, and progressed to Darden and followed by your major retail chains. Yes, they have 50 or more employees…all part time. My daughter is part of a retail discount chain… Marshalls, TJMaxx, Kohls, (pick one). She was working 32 hours a week up until about 8 mths ago. There were two bookkeepers employed locally by the chain (2 stores). Now the bookkeepers are gone, replaced by an outsourced staffing company. The bookkeepers worked full time and had, (HAD) health insurance. The sales associates in both stores were called to a staff meeting and were told, point blank, that NO ONE will be working more than 25 hours a week, even the assistant managers. My daughter went from working part time (and fill in for sick or absent associates) 5-6 days a week to 4 or less. If an associate is sick, the manager can only call in someone who has not met their 25 hrs.

The whole point is, the companies (and yes, some are greedy) are dropping the hours and forcing their employees to go into Obamacare.

I realize you have data, Sheldon, but “out there” in the world of retail and food service, the employees and employers are telling a different story.

Wal Mart has basically maintained the status quo with their employees…and I for one am seeing the results. Thirty check out lanes at peak hours… 5 registers open. At Harris Teeter, when the checker says, “Ma’m have you found everything you need?” I used to say “YES”. Now I say, "well, you are out of (fill in the blank). The reply I get is, “Yes, ma’m, I understand, we have had to cut back on employee hours and some of our stockers have been laid off,”

Am I against Obamacare…I’m not sure at this point. From my research…I am finding that the paperwork and the hoops one must jump through in order to get health insurance is becoming a nightmare. I will continue to wade through the mire and work with my adult/children to get them in the right place.

Which begs the question…“If my college educated son :nerd:and my reasonably educated daughter :kiss4you:, and myself as a government employee are finding it daunting to “read” and “comprehend” the sign up procedure and unanswered questions…I wonder how the working poor, most of which have minimal education are going to understand the process?” Never mind the folks who are in this country “legally” who never bothered to learn english.

My mother is 84 yrs old with a high school education…grad of 1947. She is clueless, it is up to my siblings (sister and brother) who are staunch Republicans and hate this whole mess to get her through this. South Carolina is not cooperating :dts: with this healthcare mandate…which will make it more difficult for her. North Carolina may be easier, the jury is still out on that. The further you go into red state territory, where you will find (yes the data supports it), folks who are among the poorest and least educated,…well let me say this,the government is going to have to “HIRE” a workforce (laughable because Uncle Sam is not hiring) to help people get through this.

 

[stinkcat_14]

The data is outdated and there is more to come.

The most recent data I linked to was last month, you are telling me last months data is outdated?

I have read every business article I can find and how it will trickle down with Obamacare. Starting with the CEO of Papa John’s Pizza, and progressed to Darden and followed by your major retail chains. Yes, they have 50 or more employees…all part time. My daughter is part of a retail discount chain… Marshalls, TJMaxx, Kohls, (pick one). She was working 32 hours a week up until about 8 mths ago. There were two bookkeepers employed locally by the chain (2 stores). Now the bookkeepers are gone, replaced by an outsourced staffing company. The bookkeepers worked full time and had, (HAD) health insurance. The sales associates in both stores were called to a staff meeting and were told, point blank, that NO ONE will be working more than 25 hours a week, even the assistant managers. My daughter went from working part time (and fill in for sick or absent associates) 5-6 days a week to 4 or less. If an associate is sick, the manager can only call in someone who has not met their 25 hrs.

The whole point is, the companies (and yes, some are greedy) are dropping the hours and forcing their employees to go into Obamacare.

What you have is anecdotal data, if this behavior is a general trend then it should show up in the hours worked data.

I realize you have data, Sheldon, but “out there” in the world of retail and food service, the employees and employers are telling a different story.

The data represents most of the population. Obviously some people can have their hours cut, but the data suggests that most are not having their hours cut.

Wal Mart has basically maintained the status quo with their employees…and I for one am seeing the results. Thirty check out lanes at peak hours… 5 registers open. At Harris Teeter, when the checker says, “Ma’m have you found everything you need?” I used to say “YES”. Now I say, "well, you are out of (fill in the blank). The reply I get is, “Yes, ma’m, I understand, we have had to cut back on employee hours and some of our stockers have been laid off,”

Walmart has never been particularly generous either with wages or hours, which is why they have a large turnover of employees.

Am I against Obamacare…I’m not sure at this point. From my research…I am finding that the paperwork and the hoops one must jump through in order to get health insurance is becoming a nightmare. I will continue to wade through the mire and work with my adult/children to get them in the right place.

For the record I am against Obamacare as well, I am against Medicare as well since that is another government healthcare program which is bankrupting our country. But we have to temper our opinions with the facts, so we cannot make claims that the data does not support.

Which begs the question…“If my college educated son :nerd:and my reasonably educated daughter :kiss4you:, and myself as a government employee are finding it daunting to “read” and “comprehend” the sign up procedure and unanswered questions…I wonder how the working poor, most of which have minimal education are going to understand the process?” Never mind the folks who are in this country “legally” who never bothered to learn english.

There is no doubt that it is a nightmare of implement and navigate through.

 

[seekerz]

If one goes up the income scale to about the median income nationally, the out-of-pocket costs are much larger than with the typical employment-based plan. That’s for the silver plan. Possibly the idea is to discourage people from getting the plans that are comparable to what employers (at least used to) provide.

Perhaps not surprisingly, the premiums for the silver plan are not lower than they would be without Obamacare. It’s just that up to a level, there are large subsidies.

Looks to me like the big “savings” for individuals are only in the bronze (lowest) plan.

Interesting too is the really massive subsidy (tax credit) on any income level that is reasonably typical in this society. The government is undertaking an enormous liability if very many people sign up for the exchanges. As employers dump their plans (which is probably why Obama put off the employer mandates) I really do wonder whether the 1.5 trillion addition to the debt is perhaps a conservative estimate.

But on the whole, it looks to me like the government is paying out a lot of borrowed money for some not-too-good plans.

Why are they not-too-good plans? What makes a plan good - the premiums? It can’t be the services you mean because ALL the plans meet the basic criteria for comprehensive coverage. The difference in premiums (before credits) has to do with the difference in deductibles/copays, rather than in what care is covered.

 

[TerryOfromCA]

tampabay.com/news/business/banking/obamacare-marketplace-premiums-released-for-florida/2143679

Less than a week before the Affordable Care Act insurance marketplaces open for business, the federal government announced that average costs in Florida and other states will be lower than it once projected.

So the goverment says that its rotten healthcare plan will be cheaper than expected. Has the government EVER correctly projected any cost of any program? Its utter foolishness to believe this report.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Why are they not-too-good plans? What makes a plan good - the premiums? It can’t be the services you mean because ALL the plans meet the basic criteria for comprehensive coverage. The difference in premiums (before credits) has to do with the difference in deductibles/copays, rather than in what care is covered.

If you look at the premiums and the deductibles, the premiums have not gone down, but the deductibles have gone up. Until you reach the “gold” plan, you really arent seeing the kinds of deductibles and co-pays that virtually every employment-based policy provides.

So, yes, people who take the bronze or the silver plans might have big subsidies up to about a median income level. But the deductibles are huge.

 

[SaintAugustine]

Are you saying there is a problem with the data? If so, what is wrong with the data? Or are you saying that the data does not fit your preconceived notions so therefore we should ignore it?

You didn’t provide any data. You made an unsubstantiated claim.

 

[SaintAugustine]

Are you saying there is a problem with the data? If so, what is wrong with the data? Or are you saying that the data does not fit your preconceived notions so therefore we should ignore it?

You didn’t provide any recent data. You made an unsubstantiated claim. Looking at old statistics and saying “it hasn’t shown up in the data, so it must not be happening,” is not a sign of someone who is staying current.

 

[Ridgerunner]

My daughter works retail in the mall. Every store in the mall has cut employees to 25 hours and less. Darden…who owns Olive Garden/Red Lobster have cut tbeir employees to the same. Papa Johns Pizza the same. Food service and retail have done this to avoid Obamacare. Ask anyone who works in the service sector.

Her manager gathered the sales clerks and told them this…and why.

This is just anecdotal, of course, but the biggest health organization around here hires almost nobody full time anymore. It does have a lot of sub-clinics, though, that are separate organizations.

So, a person working “full time” for that organization is actually “part time” in each of two or more sub-organizations. One might be part time in a regular clinic, and part time in an urgent care facility or one of the hospitals. That being the case, the person might well get 40 hours or even more (oftentimes more). But they have to pay 100% for the organization’s heath insurance. Excellent insurance, but extremely expensive.

One of my favorite examples is one of their clinics that converts to an urgent care facility at 5:00 p.m. Everybody who works more than part time clocks out of the clinic and clocks into the urgent care facility, and it’s all the same place. Same building, same rooms used, everything. Some of the personnel change, but some don’t.

 

[stinkcat_14]

You didn’t provide any recent data. You made an unsubstantiated claim. Looking at old statistics and saying “it hasn’t shown up in the data, so it must not be happening,” is not a sign of someone who is staying current.

August 2013 is not recent data? What do you consider recent data?

 

[SaintAugustine]

August 2013 is not recent data? What do you consider recent data?

You don’t seem to get it…which is weird since you seem to actually know something about economics. Here is a list of companies who have cut back -ObamaCare Employer Mandate: A List Of Cuts To Work Hours, Jobs | Investor's Business Daily

As you can see, it has accelerated - especially from July on. As I think you might know , the data you reported is going to lag behind the cut backs on hours. August 2013 may not even show the effects through the end of June.

But, by all means, bury your head in the data sand and wait for the data to catch up before you realize what is happening all around us.

 

[stinkcat_14]

You don’t seem to get it…which is weird since you seem to actually know something about economics. Here is a list of companies who have cut back -ObamaCare Employer Mandate: A List Of Cuts To Work Hours, Jobs | Investor's Business Daily

As you can see, it has accelerated - especially from July on. As I think you might know , the data you reported is going to lag behind the cut backs on hours. August 2013 may not even show the effects through the end of June.

But, by all means, bury your head in the data sand and wait for the data to catch up before you realize what is happening all around us.

Actually the August data represents information from August. We will get the September results this Friday, so the BLS data is fairly up to date.

 

[SaintAugustine]

Actually the August data represents information from August. We will get the September results this Friday, so the BLS data is fairly up to date.

You still don’t get it. When companies announce that they are cutting hours to part time, it is not generally instantaneous. That is why the August data you are so intent on taking as gospel, probably doesn’t even include the changes announced by some companies in June.

Bottom line, many companies have announced it, so it is happening, regardless of what you think you know from looking at the BLS data. Don’t worry though…they, and eventually you, will catch up.

 

[stinkcat_14]

You still don’t get it. When companies announce that they are cutting hours to part time, it is not generally instantaneous. That is why the August data you are so intent on taking as gospel, probably doesn’t even include the changes announced by some companies in June.

Bottom line, many companies have announced it, so it is happening, regardless of what you think you know from looking at the BLS data. Don’t worry though…they, and eventually you, will catch up.

If this is a trend it will show up in the data.

 

[SaintAugustine]

If this is a trend it will show up in the data.

And, I’m sure it will.