Obama's Health Care "Reform" Bill

  • Thread starter Thread starter ConservativeOne
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Oh yes! That’s the answer…oh…wait…that’s what we have now…

The status quo is NOT the answer. Americans pay more per person for healthcare than any other country in the world, and we’re NOT getting what we pay for.

Hard working citizens with insurance coverage should not be one serious illness or accident away from bankruptcy. Changing jobs should not leave people in fear of losing medical coverage because they have a pre-existing condition. Medical choices should not be made by those whose first responsibility is to make a profit for their company.

Is the current House/Senate plan the answer? Probably not, but the opposition party did nothing when they had the chance, leaving it up for grabs now. Americans know that the status quo doesn’t serve everyone fairly and they know it’s unsustainable. Personally, I would like to see the FEHB get extended as an option for every citizen. That plan allows the person to choose from a variety of private plans to get what is best for their family. The savings comes from the large number of people involved spreading out the risk.
We DO NOT WANT the status quo … the Federal and state governments control medical insurance and the health care systems so that they have become ponderous and unwieldy. Don’t blame those failures on the free market economic system. Those failures are squarely and fairly laid at the feet of the government restrictions.

Without 60% of votes in Congress, the Republicans could never get their way … and with Ted Kennedy (and others) fighting tooth and nail to prevent free choice of medical insurance, there was no way to get that to happen.

What people need are low-cost catastrophic-coverage insurance policies and then add on with a variety of free market policies with various coverages depending on their needs. Basically HSA/MSA types of plans … which Ted Kennedy fought and which many of the states will not allow to be sold within their borders (or severely restrict them). [Such as New Jersey.]
 
The bill will require you to talk to a representative every five years about “living will” how you want your health to be covered when you are about to die. The fact that they want to consul the elderly MAY mean they want to reduce costs and will present you with various options. i.e. it will save your family money. It will be painless QUOTE]

Thank you for mentioning this. I work for a hospital, and it is too often that things like this do not get addressed before a patient passes, and it causes much undue pain and stress for already grieving families. Do not assume that the “government” is trying to harm you with something like this. You might actually appreciate it someday.
 
jimpres;5502347:
The bill will require you to talk to a representative every five years about “living will” how you want your health to be covered when you are about to die. The fact that they want to consul the elderly MAY mean they want to reduce costs and will present you with various options. i.e. it will save your family money. It will be painless QUOTE]

Thank you for mentioning this. I work for a hospital, and it is too often that things like this do not get addressed before a patient passes, and it causes much undue pain and stress for already grieving families. Do not assume that the “government” is trying to harm you with something like this. You might actually appreciate it someday.
Why trust the government or give it the benefit of the doubt? What reason have we to do so? Particularly from a Catholic perspective, how can we possibly start from a position of trust with a leadership that is so vehemently anti-life, whose medical positions are so heavily tainted in so many ways by death-focused policies so antithetical to our beliefs?

It would be nice if this turns out to be innocent; I just don’t trust it either in concept or, even less, in application.
 
EDITORIAL EXEGESIS
“President Obama is pushing Congress to pass health care legislation that could nationalize as much as 10 percent of the economy. Most members of Congress will vote on this bill with no idea what’s in it. Rep. John Conyers Jr., Michigan Democrat, disparaged lawmakers for even pretending to read the laws they pass. ‘I love these members, they get up and say, “Read the bill,”’ he said last week at the National Press Club. ‘What good is reading the bill if it’s a thousand pages and you don’t have two days and two lawyers to find out what it means after you’ve read the bill?’ Mr. Conyers might think it’s an antiquated notion that congressmen actually read legislation, but it is the most fundamental responsibility of elected representatives to know and understand laws and how they will affect the lives of their constituents. That is especially the case with such a gargantuan bill. The House version creates 53 new federal bureaucracies with everything from a Health Choices Administration to a Health Insurance Exchange Trust Fund to a Health Benefits Advisory Committee. Thirty-three entitlement programs are created or expanded. The notion is put to rest that government might cooperate with doctors and patients to work out what is best for providing care. The health care bill uses the assertive word ‘shall’ 1,683 times. These passages are government mandates that force doctors, consumers and others in the health care profession to do what Congress orders. The word ‘penalty’ is used 156 times for those who don’t follow orders. ‘Tax’ is referred to 172 times. Mr. Conyers is right about one thing: A legal education would come in handy when reading through this legislation. The bill is 1,018 pages long, very complicated and surely will cause legal disputes about its meaning for years to come.” --The Washington Times
 
KelleyMB;5503359:
Why trust the government or give it the benefit of the doubt? What reason have we to do so? Particularly from a Catholic perspective, how can we possibly start from a position of trust with a leadership that is so vehemently anti-life, whose medical positions are so heavily tainted in so many ways by death-focused policies so antithetical to our beliefs?

It would be nice if this turns out to be innocent; I just don’t trust it either in concept or, even less, in application.
So give the businesses who’s first priority is to make a profit the benefit of the doubt?

The point of healthcare is treatment not profit which is why the free market is not well suited for it. Remember the first goal of private insurance is NOT to cover you. I have a great job for a major corporate entity in the medical field. I have insurance through the largest private insurance provider in the nation. And honestly I still pay out the nose for treatment and meds, in addition to paying out the nose for the coverage. Even FSA’s are getting picky about paying for things these days.

Basically private insurance is about on par with the LC’s “protection” racket. You stay terrified about what will happen if you don’t have it, but while you have they don’t really give you much protection. All this fear mongering on the horrors of affordable healthcare just blows my mind. We’re the only country in the 1st world that hasn’t figured this out. Its about time we catch up.
 
Arandur;5504058:
**So give the businesses who’s first priority is to make a profit the benefit of the doubt?
**
The point of healthcare is treatment not profit which is why the free market is not well suited for it. Remember the first goal of private insurance is NOT to cover you. I have a great job for a major corporate entity in the medical field. I have insurance through the largest private insurance provider in the nation. And honestly I still pay out the nose for treatment and meds, in addition to paying out the nose for the coverage. Even FSA’s are getting picky about paying for things these days.

Basically private insurance is about on par with the LC’s “protection” racket. You stay terrified about what will happen if you don’t have it, but while you have they don’t really give you much protection. All this fear mongering on the horrors of affordable healthcare just blows my mind. We’re the only country in the 1st world that hasn’t figured this out. Its about time we catch up.

The whole goal of any insurance company is profit-whether they’re covering your house, your car or your health-the object of the “game” is to take in more money than they pay out. I continue to be shocked by people who are completely ok with that system.
 
Arandur;5504058:
So give the businesses who’s first priority is to make a profit the benefit of the doubt?

The point of healthcare is treatment not profit which is why the free market is not well suited for it. Remember the first goal of private insurance is NOT to cover you. I have a great job for a major corporate entity in the medical field. I have insurance through the largest private insurance provider in the nation. And honestly I still pay out the nose for treatment and meds, in addition to paying out the nose for the coverage. Even FSA’s are getting picky about paying for things these days.

Basically private insurance is about on par with the LC’s “protection” racket. You stay terrified about what will happen if you don’t have it, but while you have they don’t really give you much protection.
The free market at least has real accountability and immediate alternative options. If it were actually allowed to work in health care it would produce better results–as another poster mentioned earlier, the problem right now is that government actually restricts our insurance options and medical options. If we could just shop around, insurers would be forced to provide the coverage we wanted. The problem is right now we’re often forced into either limited employer options or to expensive individual options that don’t have the group discounts. But it will be disastrous to have just essentially one giant federal, federally-run option to buy into. We need many options competing, and we need the option of buying very limited coverage if that’s what we want.

That’s not to say that government doesn’t have a role. Government exists to provide stability and rule of law, which involves preventing fraud–preventing companies from taking advantage of you by saying they’re providing protection that they really aren’t. So yes, government should have a hand in making sure that insurers provide very clear and complete coverage particularly for emergency/catastrophic costs, the sort of stuff that could cause serious financial hardship even to people who have been responsible enough to put thousands of dollars into savings for medical expenses.
All this fear mongering on the horrors of affordable healthcare just blows my mind. We’re the only country in the 1st world that hasn’t figured this out. Its about time we catch up.
Show me a system that truly works better than the U.S. system–in terms of solvency, supporting research and development of advanced techniques, availability of advance techniques, and rapid availability of quality treatment. And then show me how the U.S. government has provided an acceptable alternative.

When the U.S. government can make the V.A. and Medicare and Medicaid both solvent and top-notch health institutions, then I’ll believe it may be able to provide a viable solution in the form of some kind of universal health care. Until then, while those institutions are disasters, how is it anything other than utter insanity to believe that the government can be trusted to do better than the V.A. and Medicare/Medicaid if only they’re allowed to force us all into it?

My point is that the failure of existing government systems suggests that the real motive behind universal health care ISN’T to provide a superior health care system (since existing government health care systems are so poor), but rather to push some other agendas.
 
Arandur;5504058:
So give the businesses who’s first priority is to make a profit the benefit of the doubt?

The point of healthcare is treatment not profit which is why the free market is not well suited for it. Remember the first goal of private insurance is NOT to cover you. I have a great job for a major corporate entity in the medical field. I have insurance through the largest private insurance provider in the nation. And honestly I still pay out the nose for treatment and meds, in addition to paying out the nose for the coverage. Even FSA’s are getting picky about paying for things these days.

Basically private insurance is about on par with the LC’s “protection” racket. You stay terrified about what will happen if you don’t have it, but while you have they don’t really give you much protection. All this fear mongering on the horrors of affordable healthcare just blows my mind. We’re the only country in the 1st world that hasn’t figured this out. Its about time we catch up.
The ultimate aim of this cumbersome bill is the pure evil of eugenics. You can couch it in whatever fuzzy language you wish.

“Life not worthy of living.”

Look it up.

It must be defeated. The goverment must not be given the power of life and death over the INNOCENT.
 
rtconstant;5506014:
The ultimate aim of this cumbersome bill is the pure evil of eugenics. You can couch it in whatever fuzzy language you wish.

“Life not worthy of living.”

Look it up.

It must be defeated. The goverment must not be given the power of life and death over the INNOCENT.
Life is not worth living at either end, the unborn and now the elderly. The administrations should be ashamed. And they should be stopped.
 
Can we stopped being derailed by lies about the current House Bills & claims that it forces the elderly to discuss Life Ending decisions with a physician? The House Bill HR 3200 only required Medicare to pay for a Physician for a counseling session “advanced care planning” every 5 years if the patient wanted it (with add’l sessions if the patient’s health changed).

nebraska.statepaper.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2009/07/30/4a70f03e2324a

If anyone starts misquoting page 425, you can be sure that they are hoping to kill Health Care reform, like Republican John Boehner, the minority leader.

As someone who has had to turn off a respirator on his father, I appreciated that my father had a living will (& that we had a priest with us in the ICU to pray with us.)

Our current system is getting increasingly unaffordable- my own health plan costs $15K per year for my family of 4 & my large employer picks up most of that. I’m lucky & because my family is healthy, I only pay a few hundred dollars in co-pays per year. If I lose my job, I can get coverage for $9-$10K per year with $2K indiv./$5K family annual deductables, but finding those premium $ will be tough.

Anyone who has individual or small company coverage may only have coverage until they get sick, because Insurers carefully review & try to “rescind” policies when policyholders are diagnosed with leukemia, breast cancer and 1,400 other serious illness, per this testimony. Don’t be surprised- what for-profit business willingly embraces paying $100K-$200K in expenses if they can “legally” avoid it?

articles.latimes.com/2009/jun/17/business/fi-rescind17

Those private insurer decisions lead to avoidable deaths. Also, we may be fighting to save our unborn, but we haven’t fought enough to save our born children.
Our current Health System in the US gives us an infant mortality rate of 6.3 per 1000 live births. Israel’s is 4.7/1000; Japan’s is 3.2/1000. Almost twice as many babies born in the US die versus in Japan. Granted, Japan is the Gold Standard, but almost all European Countries do much better because everyone gets prenatal care. Health Reform Opponents like to cite Canada or the UK, but other Euro-countries have a blend of employer paid & gov’t subsidized plans that cover everyone & they all spend much less than we do in the US.

Our challenge is fight actual pro-abortion or euthanization provisions (not imaginary ones), while recognizing that not providing or fighting to provide expanded healthcare coverage to others may be failing to provide for the least of our brothers and may be a sin of omission.

What do you think?
 
Colour by numbers medicine.
Dr picks a diagnosis and the gov. tell the Dr what to do and what medicines to give(the ones they will pay for(here read cheapest).Not necessarily the best for your particular case. An examplle could be :broad speactrum antibiotics ,instead of the one specific for the bacteria you have.Gov. saves the money for doing a culture and find out which bacteria you have, but you ingest an antibiotic to which your bacteria may not be much sensitive to.
Aside from that, medicine is an art because each patient presents a unique set of circumstances and other conditions.A person may have diabetes, but also asthma. Only your dr can juggle your case correctly.Not a beaurocrat in an office with a book of codes and prices.Of course if things do not go well when dr follows the Gov instructions,you sue your poor dr.I believe there is a clause you cannot sue the gov.
Your medical records will be in the internet, so that hackers can read them.They got into the Pentagon and whitehouse websites,image how they can get into yours.
Maybe an employer wants to know.There will always be someone he can pay to get him the info before they hire you.
And so on and on. More privacy please…😦
 
Can we stopped being derailed by lies …
Can we?
Our challenge is fight actual pro-abortion or euthanization provisions (not imaginary ones), while recognizing that not providing or fighting to provide expanded healthcare coverage to others may be failing to provide for the least of our brothers and may be a sin of omission.
What do you think?
I think this bill is the epitomy of lies and may well have been authored by the father of lies, the prince of death.

It must be defeated.
 
As someone who has had to turn off a respirator on his father, I appreciated that my father had a living will (& that we had a priest with us in the ICU to pray with us.)
So he was responsible and did the right thing. I know my employers, parishes, and insurance companies (among others) have all advised and encouraged I do so as well, so there are non-governmental sources promoting this stuff. How much do you want government to babysit everyone and make us do things?
Also, we may be fighting to save our unborn, but we haven’t fought enough to save our born children.
Our current Health System in the US gives us an infant mortality rate of 6.3 per 1000 live births. Israel’s is 4.7/1000; Japan’s is 3.2/1000. Almost twice as many babies born in the US die versus in Japan. Granted, Japan is the Gold Standard, but almost all European Countries do much better because everyone gets prenatal care. Health Reform Opponents like to cite Canada or the UK, but other Euro-countries have a blend of employer paid & gov’t subsidized plans that cover everyone & they all spend much less than we do in the US.
Our challenge is fight actual pro-abortion or euthanization provisions (not imaginary ones), while recognizing that not providing or fighting to provide expanded healthcare coverage to others may be failing to provide for the least of our brothers and may be a sin of omission.
What do you think?
Those often-touted statistics on infant mortality are apples to oranges comparisons; they are deliberate lies used to bash that U.S. health system and prop up others.

They are extremely misleading because the U.S. reports infant mortality for any children that show any signs of life, while many other countries don’t even consider the baby a life or a mortality if she dies before reaching 28 weeks or a certain body weight (or various other criteria). The U.S. reports all premature babies who die in its infant mortality statistics, while others don’t even consider them worth reporting. Plus, the U.S. reports much more completely and accurately. The U.S. also has a much more heterogeneous population than many countries, which has a marked impact on many health statistics. It also has many more people using fertility drugs and producing more multiple births and premature births.

So you see, the U.S., because of its much more life-oriented view of births and infant mortality, reports a higher rate. In reality, I would not be surprised if we were at or very near the top, and then only not quite there because of our heterogeneous population and fertility drugs.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_mortality#Comparing_infant_mortality_rates
media.www.thebluebanner.net/media/storage/paper1302/news/2008/12/04/Editorial/Infant.Mortality.Rate.Needs.Definition.Overhaul-3568039.shtml
While the United States reports every case of infant mortality, it has been suggested that some other developed countries do not. A 2006 article in U.S. News & World Report claims that “First, it’s shaky ground to compare U.S. infant mortality with reports from other countries. The United States counts all births as live if they show any sign of life, regardless of prematurity or size. This includes what many other countries report as stillbirths. In Austria and Germany, fetal weight must be at least 500 grams (1 pound) to count as a live birth; in other parts of Europe, such as Switzerland, the fetus must be at least 30 centimeters (12 inches) long. In Belgium and France, births at less than 26 weeks of pregnancy are registered as lifeless.[5] And some countries don’t reliably register babies who die within the first 24 hours of birth. Thus, the United States is sure to report higher infant mortality rates. For this very reason, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which collects the European numbers, warns of head-to-head comparisons by country.”[6] However, all of the countries named adopted the WHO definition in the late 1980s or early 1990s.[7]
 
If you all would like to experience actual American government run health care, just go and visit any American Indian reservation … you could experience it for yourself.

No group has been so thoroughly taken care of by the American government than the American Indians … and no group has suffered so grievously.

And now, we will be able to experience that same American government health care.

Glenn Beck has a segment or two on the American Indians’ health care system.

And John Stossel on “20/20” is scheduled to have a segment on the British and Canadian “lottery” system of health care … [how equitable.]
 
Chatting in this forum help us unload our worries about the system that is coming, but I suggest we jump into action BY CALLING OUR SENATORS AND REPRESENTATIVES AND TELLING THEM OUR POINT OF VIEW.

The phone # of US Senate , in DC is:202 224-3121
Have at hand the name of your senator, and ask the operator for his or her direct number.
You dial it,and would have some choices:record your message, etc.They do not ask you for your name. You could add that you voted for that senator(if that is true), so that he or she feels more obligated to listen to you.

Suggestion:Taxpayers should not be paying for the abortion of babies.
Doctors , nurses and hospitals should not be forced to go against their consciences.
We do not want all of our health life in the internet, etc.,eventually it will be spilled out.You will see.Better carry a chip with your info.
You will be helping the cause.Call soon,while they deliberate. Thank you.🙂
 
Chatting in this forum help us unload our worries about the system that is coming, but I suggest we jump into action BY CALLING OUR SENATORS AND REPRESENTATIVES AND TELLING THEM OUR POINT OF VIEW.

The phone # of US Senate , in DC is:202 224-3121
Have at hand the name of your senator, and ask the operator for his or her direct number.
You dial it,and would have some choices:record your message, etc.They do not ask you for your name. You could add that you voted for that senator(if that is true), so that he or she feels more obligated to listen to you.

Suggestion:Taxpayers should not be paying for the abortion of babies.
Doctors , nurses and hospitals should not be forced to go against their consciences.
We do not want all of our health life in the internet, etc.,eventually it will be spilled out.You will see.Better carry a chip with your info.
You will be helping the cause.Call soon,while they deliberate. Thank you.🙂
Ditto, most times the switchboard is over loaded. But keep it up. Send email, cards and keep calling.
 
We do not want all of our health life in the internet, etc.,eventually it will be spilled out.You will see.Better carry a chip with your info.
You will be helping the cause.Call soon,while they deliberate. Thank you.🙂
Actually there’s a book you should read called Database Nation before you make claims like this one. Centralized data repositories are easier to secure that decentralized ones, ask any computer security professional.
 
This bill is stealth-FOCA. Abortion is not mentioned but everyone on both sides has said or implied that it is included, unless of course they’re talking to pro-life people. Then they say, “The bill doesn’t say anything about abortion”. Whatever happened to the Obama’s supposed dedication to transparency?

Besides that, I don’t like the government becoming a competitor by creating their own “public option”. Look at what’s happened with the “public option” in education. For many, the “public option” is now the only option, unless you’re wealthy enough to afford the private option. What kind of business can compete with a competitor who can always rely on receiving a portion of all customers’ money (taxes) whether they buy their product or not? The result is institutions which force people to succumb in some degree to that institution’s ideology which is against their own. The only real choice will eventually be to either like it or not like it.
We don’t need a “public option,” which would simply be an HMO operated by government bureaucrats. As a retired federal employee, I wonder why we don’t try something like what is available to active and retired federal workers: we get to pick between policies approved by the government. We pay part of the premium, the treasury pays the rest. At 65 we go onto medicare and the private insurance become secondary.
 
If you all would like to experience actual American government run health care, just go and visit any American Indian reservation … you could experience it for yourself.

No group has been so thoroughly taken care of by the American government than the American Indians … and no group has suffered so grievously.

And now, we will be able to experience that same American government health care.

Glenn Beck has a segment or two on the American Indians’ health care system.

And John Stossel on “20/20” is scheduled to have a segment on the British and Canadian “lottery” system of health care … [how equitable.]
Indian reservations are more like minimum-security prisons, and the BIA is one of the most corrupt of federal agencies. Assets for the tribes held in trusts were systematically looted for decades. The restoration of tribal government has mitigated but not ended the looting.
 
Actually there’s a book you should read called Database Nation before you make claims like this one. Centralized data repositories are easier to secure that decentralized ones, ask any computer security professional.
Are the White House, Pentagon and Representative JimWolf 's data in a centralized repository? Hackers entered in the three of them recently.I hope we have a choice to have it or not in the internet.Although I doubt it.Doctors should get additional liability insurance because if their records become public, they could be sued for that also.They also will be liable if the lady that enters the data in the computer makes a human mistake which can cause a death.Say she was not concentrating and enters a dosis wrong.They are not nurses but data entry secretaries and do not know much of medicine.Dr is liable,since she is his employee. When a Dr writes his or her notes in a chart knows what he is writing.
Probably in the near future the only ones with the choice would be the women’s choice to abort.We may not be able to choose to have or not our records in the web.And medical personnel may not be able to choose to participate in abortions or not.:(.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top