Obama's Health Care "Reform" Bill

[Drawmack]

Are the White House, Pentagon and Representative JimWolf 's data in a centralized repository? Hackers entered in the three of them recently.

Nope, which points to the problem I was underlining. I’m telling you, read Database Nation.

I hope we have a choice to have it or not in the internet.Although I doubt it.Doctors should get additional liability insurance because if their records become public, they could be sued for that also.

If we had a centralized system to store this information the Doctor wouldn’t be liable if his records were compromised, because he wouldn’t be the one storing them. This is why most doctors, today, pay for a third party to store their data and that third party accepts liability for compromises of the data.

They also will be liable if the lady that enters the data in the computer makes a human mistake which can cause a death.Say she was not concentrating and enters a dosis wrong.They are not nurses but data entry secretaries and do not know much of medicine. Dr is liable,since she is his employee.

You are corrected that they are not nurses, however they are not merely secretaries either. There are associates degrees in things like medical transcriptionist, medical secretary, medical office assistant. All of these degrees make the student study a great deal of medical terminology and abbreviations. Doctors should be hiring people with these degrees to do their data entry and if the doctor doesn’t then they deserve to be held liable. Secondly, all the data entry should be checked by at least two sets of eyes to catch those human mistakes. These are lives we’re playing with here. The doctor should be liable if he does not implement the proper fail safes with properly trained individuals.

 

[Tamsulosin]

Having worked at a medical office for over 25 years I ought to know a little about the subject.
Human error can happen and has nothing to do with having gone to college for 2 years to get an associate degree in data entry. A human is a human 8 hours at a computer.
People still are under the myth ,at least regarding primary care physicians,that they are rich.Even if they have plenty of patients.What people do not realize is the enormous overhead a dr has and the little insurance pays.The new plan aims at reducing payments
Ex:While he is 20 minutes or half an hour with a Medicare patient,(between $50 to $63) he is paying a registered nurse$20 an hour, a receptionist$15 an hour, an now he will have to pay a professional data entry person $17)Add to that a cleaning person ,a translation person on call,at least 2 to 3 lines of telephones,tons of money for health insurance for employees and family,liability, malpractice, workman’s compensation,supplies,utilities, rent etc, etc.
Is the “new” plan going to bring “price fixing” to this noble profession.?
Is this discriminatory against one profession?Will there be price fixing for lawyers, plumbers electricians,car repairmen etc, also?Will all these professionals have to wait for the mail to bring their pay,whenever they come,often 1 to 2 months later?(like drs have to wait for their Medicare payments.)
Receive the service or goods and tell the grocer his payment will come in the mail, whenever.
After all food is a primary necessity too, as much as a Dr service is.
The president says drs repeat tests.It does not happen in the offices I worked.We are always sharing test results and faxing them, between primary and specialists.

The president says he is not going to pay drs for every jab they make, tell that to the electricians, etc.He is going to tell Drs the best treatment for each diagnosis(as if drs did not have years upon years of study and experience behind them)and what medicine to give
(the cheapest ones, not necessary the best in some cases).
Pretty soon he will have less and less drs to boss around, since it will not be enticing to study such an expensive and long career to be practically an employee of the gov,not an independent professional,with none of the freedom of the free market, but retaining all the liability.

You do not need all your history in the internet,Just carry in your wallet,an emergency card stating the following:main illneses(ex:asthma and diabetes),Medicines you are taking, and what you are allergic to,if any(Ex;allergic to penicillin)That is good enough for an emergency treatment.

 

[Drawmack]

Ex:While he is 20 minutes or half an hour with a Medicare patient,(between $50 to $63)

So, worst case in this scenario is $100 an hour.

he is paying a registered nurse$20 an hour, a receptionist$15 an hour, an now he will have to pay a professional data entry person $17)

This adds up to $52.00, so the doctor made $48.00 in that hour after paying these people.

Add to that a cleaning person ,a translation person on call,at least 2 to 3 lines of telephones,tons of money for health insurance for employees and family,liability, malpractice, workman’s compensation,supplies,utilities, rent etc, etc.

Add to this scenarios like the following. My doctor knows me and he knows that I get severe ear infections twice a year (fall and spring like clock work). When this happens I call him, go to the pharmacy and pick up the prescriptions he called in for me. His total time on this case is about 5 minutes for which he whacks my insurance company $45.00 for an office visit. With 12 cases like this he’s making $540.00 in that hour hour. Which is $488.00 after paying those other people.

What about general practitioners who employ 4 - 5 physicians assistants at $25.00 an hour but charge the patients the standard fee as if the physician had seen the patient? This physicians assistant brings in the same $100.00 an hour that the doctor brings in but they only take $25.00 out in pay.

I’m not saying doctors are rich, but they certainly aren’t starving to death either.

 

[Arandur]

I believe most medical professionals have a tough, thankless job. I did not pursue medicine because of this, and the fact that despite all the stress and unpleasantness, the financial payoff just wasn’t good enough. Many years to pay off med school debt after all that hard work, and then many more years to build up some reward.

Frankly, I WANT our doctors to be paid a lot. I want the best and brightest attracted to the job, rather than turning away because they have the intelligence and work ethic to do any number of other things that offer less hardship, more appreciation, and better rewards.

We already have a crisis deficiency of doctors and nurses. What do you think will happen when they are paid less, have many more hoops to jump through, much more criticism and penalty, and have the government telling them what to do, even to the point of violating their consciences? We’ll have far fewer new doctors and nurses, at a time when demand for medical care will skyrocket in an easily-predictable Tragedy of the Commons.

 

[Tamsulosin]

First your dr does not charge for a conversation on the phone,Medicare simply does not pay for it.A lawyer does.He is a free professional.
Second you cannot spend"5 minutes’" and charge for a visit,you must document such a visit,and charge according to the different body systems you have examined and treated.
Medicare rules.They come and check your records against the visit you charged.There are different levels.Just examining you and writing down his findings, plus reading briefly your medical history as not to make a mistake, such as giving you an antibiotic you may be allergic to, or you may have a bad liver and certain medicines you cannot handle.Takes more than 5 minutes.“The dr knows me"True, but the dr has thousands of other patients"he knows” and cannot remember all the details about each one.You ,I am sure, would hold him responsible if he were to make a mistake for not reading your records.
If it was as lucrative as you assert,why there would not be more physicians wanting to be
primary care physicians? Only 5% of all the doctors graduating gointo such “lucrative” field.
I think if the trend holds, mark my words, they are going to start using nurses instead.
(with 4 years to be registered nurses, instead of about 12 to become a board certified
internist)Same knowledge?I doubt it.But then, people may not appreciate the difference,
until they are seriously ill.

 

[sharmin]

This bill is stealth-FOCA. Abortion is not mentioned but everyone on both sides has said or implied that it is included, unless of course they’re talking to pro-life people. Then they say, “The bill doesn’t say anything about abortion”. Whatever happened to the Obama’s supposed dedication to transparency?

Besides that, I don’t like the government becoming a competitor by creating their own “public option”. Look at what’s happened with the “public option” in education. For many, the “public option” is now the only option, unless you’re wealthy enough to afford the private option. What kind of business can compete with a competitor who can always rely on receiving a portion of all customers’ money (taxes) whether they buy their product or not? The result is institutions which force people to succumb in some degree to that institution’s ideology which is against their own. The only real choice will eventually be to either like it or not like it.

I think thepublic option for education proves that this will work.

 

[Drawmack]

First your dr does not charge for a conversation on the phone,Medicare simply does not pay for it.A lawyer does.He is a free professional.
Second you cannot spend"5 minutes’" and charge for a visit,you must document such a visit,and charge according to the different body systems you have examined and treated.
Medicare rules.

Ummmm, I’m not on Medicare. I’m telling you – straight up – what happens. As far as him fudging any paperwork to be able to bill that, I’d have no idea. But, I call him – he calls in the proscription – I pick up the proscription – my insurance company get’s whacked for a visit. That’s what happens!

 

[sharmin]

I think this bill is the epitomy of lies and may well have been authored by the father of lies, the prince of death.

It must be defeated.

Are you serious ? Or is this a joke?

 

[Garland]

Hi all, The sad things brought on our country by obama and the democratic party, abortion being the most heinous at present, and the take over of banks, insurance co., auto companies, annd now health care , was put in place because 54% of catholics in this country didnt know or didnt care about the teachings of their church and voted for this obamanation. God Forgive them. hitler and the nazi party pale in comparison with 11 million jews and christian slaughtered while 49 million little ones and counting have already been butchered with the blessing of the democrates, and its present leader. Holy Mary, Mother of GOD PRAY for US. Garland

 

[Tamsulosin]

Ummmm, I’m not on Medicare. I’m telling you – straight up – what happens. As far as him fudging any paperwork to be able to bill that, I’d have no idea. But, I call him – he calls in the proscription – I pick up the proscription – my insurance company get’s whacked for a visit. That’s what happens!

A visit is an encounter face to face.I would call your doctor’s office to clarify.Codes that represent an encounter,cannot be used on your phone case.Maybe it was a mistake,that is why I sugest calling them first.

 

[Drawmack]

A visit is an encounter face to face.I would call your doctor’s office to clarify.Codes that represent an encounter,cannot be used on your phone case.Maybe it was a mistake,that is why I sugest calling them first.

Yeah, I guess it could be a mistake that they have made every six months for the last 16 years. I guess it is possible that human error could lead to a recurring mistake happening 32 times. Or, maybe the doctor is just writing it up in a way to maximize his profits and I could care less because I’m not paying, my insurance company is.

 

[Al_Masetti]

So, worst case in this scenario is $100 an hour.

This adds up to $52.00, so the doctor made $48.00 in that hour after paying these people.

Add to this scenarios like the following. My doctor knows me and he knows that I get severe ear infections twice a year (fall and spring like clock work). When this happens I call him, go to the pharmacy and pick up the prescriptions he called in for me. His total time on this case is about 5 minutes for which he whacks my insurance company $45.00 for an office visit. With 12 cases like this he’s making $540.00 in that hour hour. Which is $488.00 after paying those other people.

What about general practitioners who employ 4 - 5 physicians assistants at $25.00 an hour but charge the patients the standard fee as if the physician had seen the patient? This physicians assistant brings in the same $100.00 an hour that the doctor brings in but they only take $25.00 out in pay.

I’m not saying doctors are rich, but they certainly aren’t starving to death either.

In addition to salaries, there are also overhead expenses, such as rent, malpractice insurance, utilities, telephone, equipment purchases, medical supplies used in the office, and all sorts of other non-direct labor cost items.

Typically, overhead can be as much as three or four times as much as the labor cost. Each type of business is different. But overhead expenses have to be paid just as the direct labor cost.

In addition, most doctors have a huge college loan cost that they need to pay off.

Most businesses are really stretched and if there is any money left over after expenses, then they have a profit. If they don’t make a profit [meaning that they can’t cover all their expenses], then they can’t stay in business and have no choice but to close their doors.

 

[Drawmack]

In addition to salaries, there are also overhead expenses, such as rent, malpractice insurance, utilities, telephone, equipment purchases, medical supplies used in the office, and all sorts of other non-direct labor cost items.

Typically, overhead can be as much as three or four times as much as the labor cost. Each type of business is different. But overhead expenses have to be paid just as the direct labor cost.

In addition, most doctors have a huge college loan cost that they need to pay off.

Most businesses are really stretched and if there is any money left over after expenses, then they have a profit. If they don’t make a profit [meaning that they can’t cover all their expenses], then they can’t stay in business and have no choice but to close their doors.

I am a business man, I understand overhead. If four doctors share an office, that minimizes the overhead. If a doctor employs physicians assistants that also minimizes overhead. There are good ways to do business and bad ways to do business. Like I said before, I don’t see any doctors waiting in line at the soup kitchen for lunch.

 

[Al_Masetti]

I am a business man, I understand overhead. If four doctors share an office, that minimizes the overhead. If a doctor employs physicians assistants that also minimizes overhead. There are good ways to do business and bad ways to do business. Like I said before, I don’t see any doctors waiting in line at the soup kitchen for lunch.

Doctors get fed up with the finances and the frustrations and leave the field. They vote with their feet.

nytimes.com/2008/06/17/health/views/17essa.html

Not a new issue, but getting worse:

medicaleconomics.modernmedicine.com/memag/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=111240

surfingtheapocalypse.net/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?noframes;read=217847

OBGYN shortages:

parents.com/pregnancy/labor-delivery/support/ob-gyn-shortage/

Problems in Pennsylvania:

physiciansnews.com/physician-shortage-in-pennsylvania/

 

[Drawmack]

Doctors get fed up with the finances and the frustrations and leave the field. They vote with their feet.

nytimes.com/2008/06/17/health/views/17essa.html

Not a new issue, but getting worse:

medicaleconomics.modernmedicine.com/memag/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=111240

surfingtheapocalypse.net/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?noframes;read=217847

OBGYN shortages:

parents.com/pregnancy/labor-delivery/support/ob-gyn-shortage/

Problems in Pennsylvania:

physiciansnews.com/physician-shortage-in-pennsylvania/

Any of those articles contain pictures of doctors waiting in lines at soup kitchens?

 

[Swan]

Indian reservations are more like minimum-security prisons, and the BIA is one of the most corrupt of federal agencies. Assets for the tribes held in trusts were systematically looted for decades. The restoration of tribal government has mitigated but not ended the looting.

Thanks for pointing this out. The Native Americans have been given the shaft in pretty much every way possible (health care included) since the arrival of the white man.

 

[sharmin]

Any of those articles contain pictures of doctors waiting in lines at soup kitchens?

hahaha

 

[GratefulFred]

Many excellent comments. Thank you all.

**Benjamin Franklin said, “When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.” **Dr. Franklin realized that politicians who attempted to buy votes by promising rich entitlements could not look out for the good of the entire country. Thus, an inevitable decline would occur. (source: Bill O’Reilly)

We are told we have about 47 million uninsured of the some 305 million in America. That’s about 15% uninsured, with 85% insured to some degree at least. We are not told how many can afford insurance but choose not. How many are illegal aliens, how many are children or elderly NOT already on Medicare or Medicaid? How many are paying something, or nothing, and what services they actually get one way or the other.

It seems that a reasonable annual insurance premium is about $4,000 per person per year. At 47 million that comes to about $188 BILLION PER YEAR. Where will this extra money come from? From only the uber rich? Aren’t they the ones who pay more than 50% of the taxes in America already? Regardless what the uber rich do with their money it helps America. They either provide jobs, or buy goods and services which generate jobs, or invest it which then provides jobs and goods and services.

Regardless of where that $188 Billion comes from, it will no longer do what it was doing before it was sent into a new health plan. What will we loose? JOBS?

With the national debt in the trillions already can we really afford more taxes?

Just how, and how soon, will we increase the number of doctors and support staff and hospitals, etc. to handle 47 million. OR will our access be rationed? Especially when we are old or for some other government defined condition.

Remember eugenics is the science of improving the human race especially by CAREFUL selection of parents. Abortion and euthanasia are logically related to careful selection. WHO WILL MAKE THIS CAREFUL SELECTION? **The Government? **We have to be very careful about elastic words in law, diplomatic euphemisms that set the conditions we will deeply regret if we still subscribe to the greatest Commandment to LOVE God and others as we LOVE ourselves.

We need to remember the proper dividing line between self reliance - freedom - and total dependency - a free ride. The more we tax the rich and give to the poor, the more we become a socialist, communist, country. That’s NOT what we set out to do with the American Idea. Ben Franklin has a strong point, although I doubt he had the words communism and socialism in his day.

In the ideal, every decent person would want universal health care. But we must live in the real world.

It is foolish to RUSH to major change, until we know much more. The President’s push to have it done by today, July 31, has now changed to “Of course you’ll have time to read the bill” only because America said, **“Hey wait a minute. Let’s look this over more thoroughly.” **

 

[royal_archer]

I’m not saying doctors are rich, but they certainly aren’t starving to death either.

That is why we used to have a free market system. If Doctors were over paid, more people would become doctors and the competition would bring the cost down. The reality is that good Doctors have a rare skill that people are willing to pay for.

With the new medical system and artificial constraints on doctor’s income, are you going to be able to get as many of the best and brightest to spend a decade in training to become doctors?

 

[royal_archer]

I think thepublic option for education proves that this will work.

The difference is you can self educate you can not self medicate. It took me several years of hard study to make up for the poor education I got in a government run school. With medicine you can’t go get an x-ray, mri, or medicine on your own.