Obama's State of the Union remarks

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ishii said:
LCMS no more:

*Actually I’d like to see a shred of proof or evidence that its the policy of the Republican party to be against any tax or regulation on business. You made the charge, either back it up, or have the honesty to admit that you have no proof. *

So to back up your claim that the GOP is against any tax or regulation on business, you bring up a veto by Arnonld Schwarzenneger and some law that is opposed by the Chamber of Commerce. Why don’t you admit that you made a wild claim that is untrue and be done with it? Or do you think its okay to make baseless charges about those with whom we disagree? You complain about being “dragged down the rabbit hole” but it is of your doing. All we are asking is for you to back up your claims or retract them. That seems fair to me. The Republicans aren’t against all regulations and taxes on business and I think you know that. I suppose it is easier to demonize those with whom you disagree than to discuss the issue calmly and not engage in hyperbole. You may disagree with Arnold’s veto. That’s fine. There are two sides to the issue- if the law was passed then arguably the farm workers would have been worse off because then the agriculture companies would have different workers working different shifts at the same non-overtime wage rather than the same workers working twelve hours in one day and making more money at the same wage. It is likely that many businesses would relocate to other states that don’t have the law - fewer jobs. I don’t know if Arnold did the right thing or not, but I do know that his veto is NOT proof that Republicans are against all tax and regulations on business. It is time that you retract that false accusation and start dealing in facts rather than hyperbole.

Ishii
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Just keep moving the goalposts. That site if full of things I could point out.
 
LCMS_No_More said:
No, he’s not the prototype, that was Abe Lincoln. Schwarzenegger is the current model of what constitutes true republicanism.
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If Arnold is your idea of a “true republican”, it is lame. No wonder why some of the conservatives here are accusing you of Don Quixotism. You are tipping at windmills. The (name removed by moderator) has been discredited as an honest representation of Republicanism for a long time now. It would be like pointing at Al Gore or Maxine Waters and saying that they are the “True representatives of the Democrats”.
 
ishii said:
LCMS no more:

*Actually I’d like to see a shred of proof or evidence that its the policy of the Republican party to be against any tax or regulation on business. You made the charge, either back it up, or have the honesty to admit that you have no proof. *

So to back up your claim that the GOP is against any tax or regulation on business, you bring up a veto by Arnonld Schwarzenneger and some law that is opposed by the Chamber of Commerce. Why don’t you admit that you made a wild claim that is untrue and be done with it? Or do you think its okay to make baseless charges about those with whom we disagree?
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Move the goal posts, why don’t ya?

And what party voted WITH Schwarzenegger’s veto? The Republicans on a complete party line vote.
You complain about being “dragged down the rabbit hole” but it is of your doing. All we are asking is for you to back up your claims or retract them. That seems fair to me.
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And when I bring up evidence, you reject it out of hand…exactly like I knew you would by moving the goalposts.
The Republicans aren’t against all regulations and taxes on business and I think you know that.
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Like I said before, NO Republican would be stupid enough to say that “I’m against laws that protect employees from being defrauded of their wages or that allow employers to knowingly and willfully put their employees lives in mortal danger.” That would be political suicide.

Instead, they argue, “no company pays taxes, they pass it along to the customer, so let’s go to a national sales tax (or a flat tax on personal income, or some other plan).” Or, “laws that protect employees from bad-actor employers are ‘job killers’.”

There are ways of effecting the ideological goal of virtually no regulation or taxes without actually saying it.

There is a group of people who are proud of their opposition to taxes and regulations: the Libertarians.
I suppose it is easier to demonize those with whom you disagree than to discuss the issue calmly and not engage in hyperbole.
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Yea, like I’m the only one in the history of CAF whose ever done that. :rolleyes:

That being said, I’m trying to be more careful…and I do try to couch it in the language of opinion.
You may disagree with Arnold’s veto.
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I disagree with Schwarzenegger’s existence, but that’s between me and God. 😉
That’s fine. There are two sides to the issue- if the law was passed then arguably the farm workers would have been worse off because then the agriculture companies would have different workers working different shifts at the same non-overtime wage rather than the same workers working twelve hours in one day and making more money at the same wage. It is likely that many businesses would relocate to other states that don’t have the law - fewer jobs. I don’t know if Arnold did the right thing or not, but I do know that his veto is NOT proof that Republicans are against all tax and regulations on business.
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Perhaps Schwarzenegger’s vote isn’t an indication of the Party’s ideology, the votes of the Republican caucus IS indicative. They voted WITH the Governor’s veto.
It is time that you retract that false accusation and start dealing in facts rather than hyperbole.
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Ishii
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Would that everyone did so.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
If Arnold is your idea of a “true republican”, it is lame. No wonder why some of the conservatives here are accusing you of Don Quixotism. You are tipping at windmills. The (name removed by moderator) has been discredited as an honest representation of Republicanism for a long time now. It would be like pointing at Al Gore or Maxine Waters and saying that they are the “True representatives of the Democrats”.
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Discredited? By whom?

I’ve used this analogy before. I view Repubicanism as a dunghill with the issues that are important to Christians sprinkled on top like so much snow. This way, Republicanism becomes similar to how Luther viewed the Christian (simul iustus et peccator): as a snow covered dunghill (the dunghill is us in our sin and the snow is Christ’s imputed righteousness) so that God only sees the beautiful snow.

I view Schwarzenegger as what results when you melt the snow the Republican party has sprinkled over its fetid ideology. A big, huge pile of decomposing dung.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
If Arnold is your idea of a “true republican”, it is lame. No wonder why some of the conservatives here are accusing you of Don Quixotism. You are tipping at windmills. The (name removed by moderator) has been discredited as an honest representation of Republicanism for a long time now. It would be like pointing at Al Gore or Maxine Waters and saying that they are the “True representatives of the Democrats”.
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+1.

I’ve spent the last 45 minutes going through this trainwreck. I only wish it were hyperbole.
 
LCMS_No_More said:
I’ve used this analogy before. I view Repubicanism as a dunghill with the issues that are important to Christians sprinkled on top like so much snow…

I view Schwarzenegger as what results when you melt the snow the Republican party has sprinkled over its fetid ideology. A big, huge pile of decomposing dung.
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Is this part of Pres Obama’s “kinder and gentler” political discourse?

:rolleyes:
 
LCMS_No_More said:
Discredited? By whom?

I’ve used this analogy before. I view Repubicanism as a dunghill with the issues that are important to Christians sprinkled on top like so much snow. This way, Republicanism becomes similar to how Luther viewed the Christian (simul iustus et peccator): as a snow covered dunghill (the dunghill is us in our sin and the snow is Christ’s imputed righteousness) so that God only sees the beautiful snow.

I view Schwarzenegger as what results when you melt the snow the Republican party has sprinkled over its fetid ideology. A big, huge pile of decomposing dung.
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Well, good luck with the mental gymnastics. 👍
 
LCMS_No_More said:
Move the goal posts, why don’t ya?

And what party voted WITH Schwarzenegger’s veto? The Republicans on a complete party line vote.

And when I bring up evidence, you reject it out of hand…exactly like I knew you would by moving the goalposts.

Like I said before, NO Republican would be stupid enough to say that “I’m against laws that protect employees from being defrauded of their wages or that allow employers to knowingly and willfully put their employees lives in mortal danger.” That would be political suicide.

Instead, they argue, “no company pays taxes, they pass it along to the customer, so let’s go to a national sales tax (or a flat tax on personal income, or some other plan).” Or, “laws that protect employees from bad-actor employers are ‘job killers’.”

There are ways of effecting the ideological goal of virtually no regulation or taxes without actually saying it.

There is a group of people who are proud of their opposition to taxes and regulations: the Libertarians.

Yea, like I’m the only one in the history of CAF whose ever done that. :rolleyes:

That being said, I’m trying to be more careful…and I do try to couch it in the language of opinion.

I disagree with Schwarzenegger’s existence, but that’s between me and God. 😉

Perhaps Schwarzenegger’s vote isn’t an indication of the Party’s ideology, the votes of the Republican caucus IS indicative. They voted WITH the Governor’s veto.

Would that everyone did so.
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One veto does not come close to proving your wild claim about the Republicans being against “any tax or regulation of business”. To point out that you have proven nothing is not “moving the goalposts”. You seem incapable of having a calm, civil discussion based on the facts and not on hyperbole and wild claims. Frankly, I’m disappointed.

Ishii
 
LCMS_No_More said:
Discredited? By whom?

I’ve used this analogy before. I view Repubicanism as a dunghill with the issues that are important to Christians sprinkled on top like so much snow. This way, Republicanism becomes similar to how Luther viewed the Christian (simul iustus et peccator): as a snow covered dunghill (the dunghill is us in our sin and the snow is Christ’s imputed righteousness) so that God only sees the beautiful snow.

I view Schwarzenegger as what results when you melt the snow the Republican party has sprinkled over its fetid ideology. A big, huge pile of decomposing dung.
Click to expand...
You are overanalyzing Schwarzenegger’s political ideology to the extent he has one. He is more or less a moderate, socially liberal, movie star turned politician who never had much intellectual depth (although I could be wrong). The Republican party is based on the ideals of modern American conservatism - free market economics over a planned economy, etc. It is logical for Republicans to be both for free market economics and for traditional social values. I would suggest you refrain from spouting off nonsense about the Republican party being a “dung hill”. I, being a Republican find the term deeply offensive. You come across as preferring to hurl epithets rather than engage in a civil discussion.

Ishii
 
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