Obama's 'war on religion'

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chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/ct-oped-1211-chapman-20111210,0,1730288.column

After questioning the ‘drama’ of Perry’s attack on Obama re O’s anti-religion stance,
wrtier concludes there’s much truth in the attack.

" … look far enough in this pile of chaff and you find some wheat. On two major issues cited by Perry, Obama has broken with precedent to curtail religious freedom in a way that should alarm staunch secularists (like myself) as well as the devout.

The first instance arose after passage of his health care overhaul, when the Department of Health and Human Services ordered that all insurance plans cover contraceptives and sterilization for women, with no copayment. The mandate means many Americans would have to be complicit in something their faith forbids.

As the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops pointed out, “Before the mandate, insurers were free to issue plans covering contraception and sterilization (or not); employers were free to sponsor, and usually subsidize, plans with this coverage (or not); and employees were free to choose this coverage and pay for it through their premiums (or not).” That is no longer true.

The administration provides an exemption for religious employers — while defining the term so tightly that religious hospitals, social service agencies and colleges wouldn’t qualify.

The president of the University of Notre Dame is a priest. But under Obamacare, he is obligated to furnish his employees and students with birth control options that are anathema to the Catholic Church — or else drop health insurance coverage altogether.

Even states that mandate contraceptive coverage usually allow companies to avoid it by self-insuring. They also grant broad exemptions to those with faith-based conflicts. The federal employee health insurance program permits carriers with religious scruples to offer policies without contraceptive coverage.

But so far, the administration is not nearly so reasonable (though it is considering limited changes). Under its policy, the free exercise of religion ends where health insurance coverage begins.

Even more extreme is its position on a dispute involving an Evangelical Lutheran church and school in Michigan. The school had dismissed a teacher who taught religious and nonreligious classes, and she went to court alleging illegal discrimination.

Federal courts have generally barred such lawsuits, leery of getting tangled up in church doctrine and discipline. But an appeals court ruled in favor of the teacher, and Obama’s Justice Department took her side.

Not only that, it said churches and their schools should be treated no differently from other employers. Taken to its logical conclusion, that would mean the Catholic Church could be forced to admit women to the priesthood.

**When the case was argued before the Supreme Court, conservative Justice Antonin Scalia marveled at the administration’s claim: “There, black on white in the text of the Constitution, are special protections for religion. And you say it makes no difference?” Exclaimed liberal Justice Elena Kagan, whom Obama appointed, “I too find that amazing.”

In this case, as with the health care mandate, the president evidently thinks that when the imperatives of faith thwart his vision of social policy, faith will have to get out of the way.**

Is Obama the enemy of religion? Not quite. But when it comes to religious freedom, he’s not a reliable friend."
 
chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/ct-oped-1211-chapman-20111210,0,1730288.column

After questioning the ‘drama’ of Perry’s attack on Obama re O’s anti-religion stance,
wrtier concludes there’s much truth in the attack.

" … look far enough in this pile of chaff and you find some wheat. On two major issues cited by Perry, Obama has broken with precedent to curtail religious freedom in a way that should alarm staunch secularists (like myself) as well as the devout.

The first instance arose after passage of his health care overhaul, when the Department of Health and Human Services ordered that all insurance plans cover contraceptives and sterilization for women, with no copayment. The mandate means many Americans would have to be complicit in something their faith forbids.

As the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops pointed out, “Before the mandate, insurers were free to issue plans covering contraception and sterilization (or not); employers were free to sponsor, and usually subsidize, plans with this coverage (or not); and employees were free to choose this coverage and pay for it through their premiums (or not).” That is no longer true.

The administration provides an exemption for religious employers — while defining the term so tightly that religious hospitals, social service agencies and colleges wouldn’t qualify.

The president of the University of Notre Dame is a priest. But under Obamacare, he is obligated to furnish his employees and students with birth control options that are anathema to the Catholic Church — or else drop health insurance coverage altogether.

Even states that mandate contraceptive coverage usually allow companies to avoid it by self-insuring. They also grant broad exemptions to those with faith-based conflicts. The federal employee health insurance program permits carriers with religious scruples to offer policies without contraceptive coverage.

But so far, the administration is not nearly so reasonable (though it is considering limited changes). Under its policy, the free exercise of religion ends where health insurance coverage begins.

Even more extreme is its position on a dispute involving an Evangelical Lutheran church and school in Michigan. The school had dismissed a teacher who taught religious and nonreligious classes, and she went to court alleging illegal discrimination.

Federal courts have generally barred such lawsuits, leery of getting tangled up in church doctrine and discipline. But an appeals court ruled in favor of the teacher, and Obama’s Justice Department took her side.

Not only that, it said churches and their schools should be treated no differently from other employers. Taken to its logical conclusion, that would mean the Catholic Church could be forced to admit women to the priesthood.

**When the case was argued before the Supreme Court, conservative Justice Antonin Scalia marveled at the administration’s claim: “There, black on white in the text of the Constitution, are special protections for religion. And you say it makes no difference?” Exclaimed liberal Justice Elena Kagan, whom Obama appointed, “I too find that amazing.”

In this case, as with the health care mandate, the president evidently thinks that when the imperatives of faith thwart his vision of social policy, faith will have to get out of the way.**

Is Obama the enemy of religion? Not quite. But when it comes to religious freedom, he’s not a reliable friend."
He is an intelligent guy.
He rode on the waves of success with a Nobel Prize when he cleaned the shoes for entering the first time in the White House.
“Yes, we can” - was his motto.
But He forgot the motto: “Yes, God Can!”.
So, he was left with empty hands, smart guy but too little for what was expected from him and for what he expected from himself.
When you are full of yourself, God has no place in your agenda.
 
Personally, I pity obama since he is a reflection of the way he was raised.
His mother and her parents were Christian and they abandoned their beliefs
to the status of non-believers. Except for his short-time family overseas and
that was in a Moslem culture, obama was give no faith by his mother’s family
and it was they who had constant contact with him throughout his growing-up
years. It’s a flat-out tragedy.
 
At the risk of being judgemental - I have a very hard time associating Christian principles and Obama in the same sentence.

Not the least of my reasons is his stance on pro abortion and conscience clause issues.
 
At the risk of being judgemental - I have a very hard time associating Christian principles and Obama in the same sentence.

Not the least of my reasons is his stance on pro abortion and conscience clause issues.
That’s the point of this news article.
obama can be more properly called “anti-religion.”
 
I think the idea that Obama has a war on religion is nothing more than political compaign rhetoric put out by Perry and those who don’t like him.

My religious freedom isn’t be affected by Obama in any way shape or form.

Jim
 
I think the idea that Obama has a war on religion is nothing more than political compaign rhetoric put out by Perry and those who don’t like him.

My religious freedom isn’t be affected by Obama in any way shape or form.

Jim
My religious freedom tells me
“Get obama out of office ASAP.”
 
How has your religious freedom been impacted by Obama?

Jim
The controls placed on obamacare, insistance on ABC and abortion
to be paid by all employers, including most church-agencies is an
absolute repudiation of my religious beliefs. Will I pay for Suzie’s
abortion? Ahh - NO!
 
The controls placed on obamacare, insistance on ABC and abortion
to be paid by all employers, including most church-agencies is an
absolute repudiation of my religious beliefs. Will I pay for Suzie’s
abortion? Ahh - NO!
That doesn’t effect your religious freedom.

The mandate is that Insurance Companies must cover abortion, especially in medical emergencies, which most do now.

Diocese and religious institutions already pay private insurance companies for their coverage, and those companies already pay for abortions and various forms of ABC.

Also, some forms of ABC are used as medical therapy in treating medical conditions women have.

In all it doesn’t mean that you have to use ABC nor have an abortion.

Jim
 
That doesn’t effect your religious freedom.
The mandate is that Insurance Companies must cover abortion, especially in medical emergencies, which most do now.
Diocese and religious institutions already pay private insurance companies for their coverage, and those companies already pay for abortions and various forms of ABC.
Also, some forms of ABC are used as medical therapy in treating medical conditions women have.
In all it doesn’t mean that you have to use ABC nor have an abortion.
So what do you call it when you’re against abortion and the government makes it so every health insurance plan now is mandated to cover abortion? Now you have to go against your morals as the government forces you to either become a third party supporter of abortion or go without health insurance.
 
So what do you call it when you’re against abortion and the government makes it so every health insurance plan now is mandated to cover abortion? Now you have to go against your morals as the government forces you to either become a third party supporter of abortion or go without health insurance.
Regardless of the mandate put on insurance companies, it doesn’t affect your religious freedom. The government isn’t forcing abortions on anyone.

Keep in mind that abortion is legal and can not be prohibited by the government, according the US Supreme Court.

Also, the majority of Americans, believe that most abortions, especially in the case of medical emergencies, must never be outlawed.

That’s what freedom in a pluralistic society is.

I don’t approve of abortion, but the fact that the government mandates that insurance companies pay for them, doesn’t affect my freedom of religion.

Jim
 
Regardless of the mandate put on insurance companies, it doesn’t affect your religious freedom. The government isn’t forcing abortions on anyone.

Keep in mind that abortion is legal and can not be prohibited by the government, according the US Supreme Court.

Also, the majority of Americans, believe that most abortions, especially in the case of medical emergencies, must never be outlawed.

That’s what freedom in a pluralistic society is.

**I don’t approve of abortion, but the fact that the government mandates that insurance companies pay for them, doesn’t affect my freedom of religion. **Jim
… or that’s how you choose to see it.
Others see it in a different way.
 
I fail to understand Jim’s perspective.

If the Conscience clause is not in place then Catholic hospitals will close. We are no longer free to open a Hospital.

This is just one example.

I could never understand why a Catholic would vote for a Pro - Choice president.

Certainly Secular - Progressives like Obama have covertly and overtly declared war on Religion. Catholics in particular IMHO.

The Hypothesis of Evolution and Abiogenesis is mandated in Schools yes? Some of the principles of said hypothesis **have **to be taken on faith. Just **try **and present Intelligent Design without reference to any particular God and see what happens!
 
Anyone who pays attention knows very well the stance of obama re sanctity of life.

A few reminders:
akdart.com/obama2.html

" (as an) Illinois legislator, Obama even voted against the Induced Infant Liability Act, which would have protected babies that survived late-term abortion.

**Obama’s Stealth Pro-Abortion Stance: In response to a Pennsylvania voter’s question about elementary school sex education, Obama said: “Look, I got two daughters — nine years old and six years old. I am going to teach them first about values and morals, but if they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby.” This makes two things clear. First, Senator Obama supports abortion on demand — even “convenience” abortions — for minors, including his own daughters; and second, Obama considers babies a “punishment” he’d rather spare his daughters, even if those daughters have to abort Obama’s own unborn grandchildren to avoid that particular “punishment.” **That unguardedly candid public statement is political dynamite — or it would be, if the media had reported on it.

Obama’s Christian Creds Vs. Abortion and Infanticide: This, “I don’t want them punished with a baby,” is perhaps the most self-revelatory statement Barack Obama has uttered in public since he began his campaign for the Presidency. … Because it goes to the personal. It goes to the extent of wholehearted approval of killing one’s own grandchildren if they happen to have been conceived inconveniently.

…

Infanticide candidate for president. On abortion, Obama is an extremist. He has opposed the Supreme Court decision that finally upheld the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act against that form of infanticide. Most startlingly, for a professed humanist, Obama — in the Illinois Senate — also voted against the Born Alive Infant Protection Act. I have reported on several of those cases when, before the abortion was completed, an alive infant was suddenly in the room. It was disposed of as a horrified nurse who was not necessarily pro-life followed the doctors’ orders to put the baby in a pail or otherwise get rid of the child."
Code:
Andrew K. Dart is a broadcast engineer in Dallas, Texas, and is also the editor of akdart.com. 
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

also from [americanthinker.com/2008/05/obamas_stealth_proabortion_sta.html](http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/05/obamas_stealth_proabortion_sta.html)

**May 3, 2008 **
Obama's Stealth Pro-Abortion Stance

 

**

... In response to a Pennsylvania voter's question about elementary school sex education, Obama said: 


"Look, I got two daughters - nine years old and six years old. I am going to teach them first about values and morals, but if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby."


This makes two things clear. First, Senator Obama supports abortion on demand -- even "convenience" abortions -- for minors, including his own daughters; and second, Obama considers babies a "punishment" he'd rather spare his daughters, even if those daughters have to abort Obama's own unborn grandchildren to avoid that particular "punishment."


That unguardedly candid public statement is political dynamite -- or it would be, if the media had reported on it.  Instead, four weeks later, America remains widely unaware of Senator Obama's explosive position favoring on-demand convenience abortions for minors, or his equally explosive view of babies as a "punishment."**

Why was the media so reuluctant to pulicize this???
Oh yeah - the media is liberal and obama is their darling.

Any Catholic who read of obama's abortion-plans for his own grandchildren
(stated very publicly while running for POTUS) yet still chose to vote for obama, 
is totally beyond the pale, IMO.
 
Nimzovik;
I fail to understand Jim’s perspective.

If the Conscience clause is not in place then Catholic hospitals will close. We are no longer free to open a Hospital.
Obama Care doesn’t mandate that abortions be performed, but rather, insurance companies must cover them. It won’t close Catholic Hospitals.

That being said, I’m not naive. When the Clinton’s were in office, they mandated that any medicaid re-embursments, would only be paid to hospitals which did not exclude abortions. This meant that elderly who were under care in a Catholic hospital, would not get re-embursed for services they provided to the elderly, if they didn’t provide abortions. They in fact, closed Catholic Hospitals.

Obama Care, has no such mandate in it and the president’s executive order, prevents federal funds from going to pay for abortions.

I would’ve like to see the conscience clause in place, as I would’ve also like to have seen the goverment option remain in place, but it was the Democrats in Congress, under Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reed, who had those things removed from the health-care bill, not Obama, who in fact put them into his proposal.
I could never understand why a Catholic would vote for a Pro - Choice president.
I could never understand why a Catholic would vote for a person who authorised torture and another who was a war monger.

But, hey, that’s just me.

Jim
 
Nimzovik;

Obama Care doesn’t mandate that abortions be performed, but rather, insurance companies must cover them. It won’t close Catholic Hospitals.

That being said, I’m not naive. When the Clinton’s were in office, they mandated that any medicaid re-embursments, would only be paid to hospitals which did not exclude abortions. This meant that elderly who were under care in a Catholic hospital, would not get re-embursed for services they provided to the elderly, if they didn’t provide abortions. They in fact, closed Catholic Hospitals.

Obama Care, has no such mandate in it and the president’s executive order, prevents federal funds from going to pay for abortions.

I would’ve like to see the conscience clause in place, as I would’ve also like to have seen the goverment option remain in place, but it was the Democrats in Congress, under Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reed, who had those things removed from the health-care bill, not Obama, who in fact put them into his proposal.

I could never understand why a Catholic would vote for a person who authorised torture and another who was a war monger.

But, hey, that’s just me.

Jim
Voting for obama whose best-known “platform piece” is to insure the ongoing slaughter
of millions of totally innocent babies is a far cry from casting a vote for someone who
might advocate torture or someone who might advocate “endless” wars.

The big non-negotiable issue if that obama and his kin want to insure that
abortion is forever accessible and that slaughter will always continue of the
most innocent and blameless among us. He already has a “just-in-case” plan
to kill his own grandchildren.

So totally: not my kind of guy.
 
How has your religious freedom been impacted by Obama?

Jim
Good evening, Jim,

Sir, I would respectfully submit, that I have seen that freedom is a whole cloth. IE, we are no more free in truth, than the least free citizen of our society.

For example, President Barak Hussien Obama II’s Department of Justice got a court order to remove a cross from private property in the American Southwest. That is a direct attack on both religion and freedom of religion. And, I cannot share your blase attitude, but feel that my religious freedom is as threatened by removal of that cross as much as the owner of that land’s property rights were violated.

I don’t expect you to see things the way I do. However, you are naive to expect others to see these issues of religious freedom as you do, imo.

God loves you,
Don
 
Good evening, Jim,

Sir, I would respectfully submit, that I have seen that freedom is a whole cloth. IE, we are no more free in truth, than the least free citizen of our society.

For example, President Barak Hussien Obama II’s Department of Justice got a court order to remove a cross from private property in the American Southwest. That is a direct attack on both religion and freedom of religion. And, I cannot share your blase attitude, but feel that my religious freedom is as threatened by removal of that cross as much as the owner of that land’s property rights were violated.

I don’t expect you to see things the way I do. However, you are naive to expect others to see these issues of religious freedom as you do, imo.

God loves you,
Don
:clapping::clapping::clapping:
 
To me, possibly the larger issue is just how little control and true choices we have even in our participatory democracy (regardless of candidate or party), because of the number of various public agencies which, by taxes, we are required to fund. Many of those agencies reflect the majority opinion on social issues – opinions which can be distilled in one word: license for all. This is why, although you will be able to shield your children from indoctrination in contemporary mores if you homeschool them, you will not be excused from paying taxes for public schools, which advocate for underage contraception without parental consent (or knowledge).

Think about the logic of this: Is it not still statutory rape in many States to engage in sex with a girl <17? Yet that same girl is “entitled” to sexual independence with State funding and State support, engaging in a parallel life while living under her parents’ roof.

Unreal.

All I’m saying is that even voting for a “pure” national candidate does not prevent countless other involuntary supports for all kinds of anti-life policies, not to mention all the latest fads in contemporary mores, which in sum represent – if not a war on religion – absolutely a war on traditional values. Many atheists vigorously support traditional values, such as the primacy of the two-parent, two-gender family, the traditional definition of marriage (and State support of only that), parental (vs. governmental) responsibility for the discipline of their children and the educational support of them, and an academic (as opposed to a political or social) role for the public schools.
 
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