The gist of this conversation is to say that there are many indicators that point us to an objective truth existing. If there is no objective truth than a baby only has value because we feel it does, but we know that to be false.
We can all make a list why murder is wrong but ultimately that won’t answer our questions completly.
Do we believe murder to be wrong because that is what we are taught to believe by society and religion? Are we simply the product of a subjective attempt to objectify morality? Are we just brainwashed into believing that murder is really wrong? Do we avoid killing people because we would be punished rather than bauce we believe it is truly wrong?
All these are rhetorical questions. But I do have one question that I would like answered. Would you think it possible that you could ever believe that murder could in fact be right? (never mind the whole anything is possible stuff)Do you believe that we are simply so indoctrinated by our parents, pastors and society to believe that murder is wrong that it could in fact be alright and what we hold to be true is nothing more than a delusion?
The feelings, emotions and understanding and value (really hard to describe in words) that overcome you when you look at your child for the first time would make this baby important to just you as opposed to your child having importance independent of you. Is your baby more priceless than gold because you say so or is your baby more valuable than gold because your baby is truly more valuable then gold? Does your child have value because you and your wife and others put it there? Would that mean that it someone else would place no value on that child’s life and hurt it, would you really have any right to say they are wrong? Does the child have value independent of what humans may put upon it?
It goes to that age old adage “if a tree falls in the woods and no one is around, does it make a sound?” (Obvioulsy it does)
Do things in this world only have value if someone gives them value? What was the tallest mountain in the world before mount Everest was discovered? The answer is mount everest. Simply because it was not discovered did not mean that it did not exist.
Are we just conditioned animals bred to believe certain things? Are we disgusted at Adolf Hitler because we are essentially told to be disgusted at Adolf Hitler? There is something about Hitler’s actions that not only disgusts are intellect and emotions but are very core as well. We don’t need to discuss the merits of Hitlers actions based upon our own sense of perspective. Iran at thi svery moment is trying to justify the Holocaust and to a certain extent trying to wipe it from the pages of history. To them, the furnaces at Aushwitz were justifiable and even commendable.
Your argument basically says that since ther emay be no way to prove that there is a moral objective state independent of us all then in fact all morality is subjective or at the very least “not objective”. If nothing can absolutley be wrong then everything can absolutely be right.
You seek truth and desire to seek an objective truth otherwise you would not be in this forum asking these questions, otherwise you would defend everything as your opinion or view rather than in the logical manner you have gone about your posting. There is something within you that you can’t really describe that tells you that murdering men, women and children by the millions is never right no matter what someone in Iran may think and can never be justified.
Something within us tells us that there are things in this world that are absolutely wrong no matter what others may think. You being here proves that you believe that morality is not subjective otherwise you would not be seeking this understanding and would simply move on.
Human reasoning can only get us so far. The rest takes a bit more:thumbsup:
Sorry for all the rhetorical questions and ramblings.
