OBL's messenger Boy sounds like Democrats?

[thestickman]

Read this in Neal Boortzs’ daily Nuze section this morning and agree 100%.

Osama Bin Laden’s messenger boy slithered out from under his rock yesterday and broadcast a little video on Al-Jazeera, which was promptly picked up by every media outlet around the world. In it, Ayman al-Zawahri had this to say: “What you have seen, O Americans, in New York and Washington and the losses you are having in Afghanistan and Iraq, in spite of all the media blackout, are only the losses of the initial clashes. If you continue the same policy of aggression against Muslims, God willing, you will see the horror that will make you forget what you had seen in Vietnam.” So why is this worth pointing out?

The reason is simple. With the exception of the “God willing” part, this could have been said by anyone in the Democratic leadership. How many times have we heard from the left that Iraq is another Vietnam? That we are losing the war there? You may have heard this Islamic murderer on TV preaching his hate, but you would have no problem closing your eyes and pretending you were listening to Howard Dean. Or Teddy Kennedy. Or Nancy Pelosi.

Bush’s response? We’re not leaving Iraq and we’re going to keep fighting the killers. A new poll shows Bush’s handling of the war has dropped to 38%. What that poll really shows is that 62% want to throw in the towel. Give in to the Islamic terrorist thugs. Cut and run. Give up. That’s when Iraq will become another Vietnam…when we just walk out. But that’s what a lot of people want. Good for Bush for resisting the call.

And you also have to wonder just why al-Qaeda gets so much play in the media when they release a tape like this. They could just ignore it. Media outlets could just announce that they don’t intend to give any free publicity to terrorist organizations. And just where does Al-Jazeera get those tapes?

 

[Franze]

It sounds like Zapatero in Spain, we retire troops in Iraq, we will be more secure than before. And the terrorists who were members of Morocco secret service made the necessary for winning the elections, Zapatero was the good candidate for them.

 

[vern_humphrey]

I will say it again and again: Do not give the enemy leave to hope he can win politically in the streets of the United States what he cannot win on the battlefields of the Middle East.

Do not encourage the enemy to keep killing. Do not do to this generation of American soldiers what was done to my generation.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

vern humphrey:

I will say it again and again: Do not give the enemy leave to hope he can win politically in the streets of the United States what he cannot win on the battlefields of the Middle East.

Do not encourage the enemy to keep killing. Do not do to this generation of American soldiers what was done to my generation.

Good morning Franze, Vern, everybody. Vern: I have been claiming again and again and again that WOT is not another Vietnam. But since this fear tactic seems to come up again and again and again, how be we look at it?

1. What were the mistakes in Vietnam which we do not want to repeat in Iraq and Afghanistan and which we are not repeating in those places?
2. There isn’t a (2).
3. Other thoughts?

 

[mlchance]

1) What were the mistakes in Vietnam which we do not want to repeat in Iraq and Afghanistan and which we are not repeating in those places?

Biggest mistake of Vietnam: Quitting when we’re ahead.

Second biggest mistake, closely related to the first: Not fighting the war like it was a war. Wars cannot fought by Congressional committees, plebiscite, or (worst of all) taking an opinion poll.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Ani Ibi:

Good morning Franze, Vern, everybody. Vern: I have been claiming again and again and again that WOT is not another Vietnam. But since this fear tactic seems to come up again and again and again, how be we look at it?

Look at it as we have traditionally looked at war – The nation is in grave danger, and we must do whatever it takes, for as long as it takes. We have to be united and to stay united.
Ani Ibi:

1. What were the mistakes in Vietnam which we do not want to repeat in Iraq and Afghanistan and which we are not repeating in those places?

There were fundamentally three mistakes:

1. Viet Nam was important, but not vital. Therefore we should have had a strategy aimed at a quick military victory.
2. We allowed Robert MacNamara to design our strategy - “gradual escallation.” We wound up locked into that strategy.
3. Too many Americans were hooked on the sexual revolution and other things to think clearly. We failed to unite and push for victory as a people.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

mlchance:

Biggest mistake of Vietnam: Quitting when we’re ahead.

OK, now don’t get me all wrong here. I am not asking these questions to oppose your point of view; only to clarify it.

Are we ahead in the War on Terror? Are we quitting or in danger of quitting while we are ahead?

mlchance:

Second biggest mistake, closely related to the first: Not fighting the war like it was a war. Wars cannot fought by Congressional committees, plebiscite, or (worst of all) taking an opinion poll. – Mark L. Chance.

Are we fighting the War on Terror like it is a war? Are we or are we in danger of fighting the WOT by Congressional committees, plebiscite, or opinion poll?

 

[Ani_Ibi]

OK, don’t get me all wrong. These questions are not to oppose your point of view, only to clarify it.
vern humphrey:

There were fundamentally three mistakes:

1. Viet Nam was important, but not vital. Therefore we should have had a strategy aimed at a quick military victory.

I gather that the WOT is vital (as opposed to merely important). I gather also that we have a long-range strategy. Correct me if I am wrong.
vern humphrey:

1. We allowed Robert MacNamara to design our strategy - “gradual escallation.” We wound up locked into that strategy.

Would you say that our WOT strategy is ‘gradual escalation’ or simply ‘staged, long-range planning’?
vern humphrey:

1. Too many Americans were hooked on the sexual revolution and other things to think clearly. We failed to unite and push for victory as a people.

This, I can predict is what worries you still. This seems to be what Vietnam and the WOT have in common as opposed to your other two points above. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Ani Ibi:

I gather that the WOT is vital (as opposed to merely important). I gather also that we have a long-range strategy. Correct me if I am wrong.

Yes, it is vital. We are facing an implacable enemy who is willing to do everything he can – commit the most horrible atrocities - to destroy our society.

Yes, we have a strategy. In broad terms, it is to isolate the enemy from those he considers his natural supporters – the Muslim world. To date, we have been quite successful – many times I have pointed out that more Muslims than Americans have been killed fighting on our side.
Ani Ibi:

Would you say that our WOT strategy is ‘gradual escalation’ or simply ‘staged, long-range planning’?

As I said, our strategy is to isolate the enemy, politically, socially, financially, and militarily. To do that, we must also bring him to battle – preferrably NOT on our own territory, and where we do fight leave behind us a government capable of defending itself.

At a lower level, we must never allow the enemy a sanctuary – be it Syria, or Iran, or any other nation. Those nations must either prevent terrorists from using their territory or pay the consequences.
Ani Ibi:

This, I can predict is what worries you still. This seems to be what Vietnam and the WOT have in common as opposed to your other two points above. Correct me if I am wrong.

Our enemies hope to defeat us by sparking a Viet Nam style “anti-war” movement. Sadly, there are some Americans only too willing to help them.

 

[KathleenElsie]

vern humphrey:

I will say it again and again: Do not give the enemy leave to hope he can win politically in the streets of the United States what he cannot win on the battlefields of the Middle East.

Do not encourage the enemy to keep killing. Do not do to this generation of American soldiers what was done to my generation.

Thank you for saying it. I also was in the service in the mid 1960’s and was stationed just outside of San Francisco. We were spit at, cursed, called unspeakable names and had things thrown at us. If we traveled home we had to do so in uniform so we were visable targets. Even after all these years I have night-terrors and can not sleep a full night. If this is how I am how much more those that went over-seas and did their duty?

I pray every day that this won’t happen to others now. I pray that the country will support the troops and their work. I pray that those that speak about the abuse in this war remember that the soldiers are protecting the right of others to protest and that without the soldiers they would have no right to protest.

When I see a soldier in uniform I take my grandchildren over to tell them thank you for keeping us safe. The joy and supprise on their faces is enough for me.

GOD BLESS AMERICA AND HER SOLDIERS

 

[vern_humphrey]

KathleenElsie:

Thank you for saying it. I also was in the service in the mid 1960’s and was stationed just outside of San Francisco. We were spit at, cursed, called unspeakable names and had things thrown at us. If we traveled home we had to do so in uniform so we were visable targets. Even after all these years I have night-terrors and can not sleep a full night. If this is how I am how much more those that went over-seas and did their duty?

I pray every day that this won’t happen to others now. I pray that the country will support the troops and their work. I pray that those that speak about the abuse in this war remember that the soldiers are protecting the right of others to protest and that without the soldiers they would have no right to protest.

When I see a soldier in uniform I take my grandchildren over to tell them thank you for keeping us safe. The joy and supprise on their faces is enough for me.

GOD BLESS AMERICA AND HER SOLDIERS

I pray for all who suffered from the anti-war movement, and for all who participated in this disgusting behavior.

 

[qmvsimp]

Ani Ibi:

1. What were the mistakes in Vietnam which we do not want to repeat in Iraq and Afghanistan and which we are not repeating in those places?

One big mistake that hasn’t been mentioned was in not securing sufficient support from the people in Vietnam and not including Vietnamese in decision making. We just assumed they would support us against communism and we ignored the corrupt anti-communist government in Saigon.

 

[qmvsimp]

mlchance:

Wars cannot fought by Congressional committees, plebiscite, or (worst of all) taking an opinion poll.

While it can’t be fought taking an opinion poll; because we have a democracy that has elections every two years, we must maintain the support of the electorate in order to secure victory.

 

[qmvsimp]

vern humphrey:

Yes, it is vital. We are facing an implacable enemy who is willing to do everything he can – commit the most horrible atrocities - to destroy our society.

Yes, we have a strategy. In broad terms, it is to isolate the enemy from those he considers his natural supporters – the Muslim world. To date, we have been quite successful – many times I have pointed out that more Muslims than Americans have been killed fighting on our side.

As I said, our strategy is to isolate the enemy, politically, socially, financially, and militarily. To do that, we must also bring him to battle – preferrably NOT on our own territory, and where we do fight leave behind us a government capable of defending itself.

At a lower level, we must never allow the enemy a sanctuary – be it Syria, or Iran, or any other nation. Those nations must either prevent terrorists from using their territory or pay the consequences.

Our enemies hope to defeat us by sparking a Viet Nam style “anti-war” movement. Sadly, there are some Americans only too willing to help them.

One of the best treatise’s I heard on the war. Great commentary!

 

[vern_humphrey]

qmvsimp:

One big mistake that hasn’t been mentioned was in not securing sufficient support from the people in Vietnam and not including Vietnamese in decision making. We just assumed they would support us against communism and we ignored the corrupt anti-communist government in Saigon.

Actually, the people DID support us – the South Viet Namese Army was winning when the North launched a cross-border invasion with tanks, artillery and aircraft. They actually beat back the first invasion, and only fell to the second one.

And much of what we called “corruption” was really culture shock. Our news media didn’t understand kiasu and how Confusianism works, and called it corruption.

 

[qmvsimp]

Franze:

It sounds like Zapatero in Spain, we retire troops in Iraq, we will be more secure than before. And the terrorists who were members of Morocco secret service made the necessary for winning the elections, Zapatero was the good candidate for them.

Germany and France are a better example. Their leadership compares perfectly to the Democratic Party leaders. Exploit the electorate’s fears and concerns about the WOT for political purposes and win at the ballot box. This is selling your soul to the devil to get power. To hell with truth and fairness.

 

[qmvsimp]

vern humphrey:

Actually, the people DID support us – the South Viet Namese Army was winning when the North launched a cross-border invasion with tanks, artillery and aircraft. They actually beat back the first invasion, and only fell to the second one.

I said “sufficient” support. Right now in Iraq, the Kurds and Shia support us, thats over 70% of the population. Towards the end of war, we only had the support of the urban population.
vern humphrey:

And much of what we called “corruption” was really culture shock. Our news media didn’t understand kiasu and how Confusianism works, and called it corruption.

I don’t know about this one. While the media did turn against us, I wouldn’t call a government founded by killing the predecessor president, uncorrupt.

 

[vern_humphrey]

qmvsimp:

I said “sufficient” support. Right now in Iraq, the Kurds and Shia support us, thats over 70% of the population. Towards the end of war, we only had the support of the urban population.

Actually, we had widespread support and it was getting better.

qmvsimp:

I don’t know about this one. While the media did turn against us, I wouldn’t call a government founded by killing the predecessor president, uncorrupt.

A coup is one thing – continuing corruption is another. What the media saw as “corruption” was a combination of two things – unimaginable wealth (which we brought to the country) and the Confucian tradition – Kiasu in Chinese.

 

[gnjsdad]

vern humphrey:

Yes, we have a strategy. In broad terms, it is to isolate the enemy from those he considers his natural supporters – the Muslim world.

If this is our strategy, where is the evidence? Where is the evidence that the Muslim world is turning on the insurgency and becoming more pro-American?

I would be the #1 supporter of our foreign policy if I thought what you’re saying here were true.

To accomplish this strategic goal, we need diplomatic as well as military prowess. Our military is unmatched; our diplomacy is seriously deficient.
vern humphrey:

To date, we have been quite successful

Can you give us some evidence? Where are we successfully winning hearts and minds in the Muslim world?

 

[vern_humphrey]

gnjsdad:

If this is our strategy, where is the evidence? Where is the evidence that the Muslim world is turning on the insurgency and becoming more pro-American?

I would be the #1 supporter of our foreign policy if I thought what you’re saying here were true.

To accomplish this strategic goal, we need diplomatic as well as military prowess. Our military is unmatched; our diplomacy is seriously deficient.

Can you give us some evidence? Where are we successfully winning hearts and minds in the Muslim world?

Did you miss the part about how more Muslims have been killed fighting on our side than Americans?

There is a new government in Afghanistan. There is a new government in Iraq. The Syrians are moving out of Lebanon. The Lybians are welcoming nuclear inspectors. Nations like Yemen have turned over terrorists to us. Saudi Arabia – albeit walking a tight rope – is cracking down on terrorists and those who support them.