Obstacles on the Road to Rome

[Sherlock]

The Iambic Pen:

Since several of you wrote about my question about the Catholic Church “creating” sins, I’ll address all of you together. Take, for example, Church discipline. These are not Doctrines, and they can in fact be changed. One example would be the practice of eating meat on Fridays. Now, it is my understanding that for years, this was prohibited by the Church. If I am correct, this was seen as a sin. Now, this policy has been changed (if I am correct), so that it only applies during Lent. So, what formerly was a sin now is not. I guess since I don’t see how eating meat on any specific day is a sin, then it seems that the Catholic Church made it a sin, and then, years later, made it no longer a sin.

I don’t have a problem with the breaking of Doctrine being called a sin, but I do have a problem with the breaking of Discipline being called a sin. For example, there is nothing inherently immoral about clergy getting married, but the Catholic Church (in the Latin Rite) has made celibacy a required discipline, in effect making it a sin for the clergy to marry. Thus, a sin exists where it did not exist before. Anyway, that’s what I was talking about. This is a difficult issue for me, so I would greatly appreciate any explanation. Thanks!

God Bless!

IambicPen,

Earlier on this you wrote: “I guess it seems to me that the Catholic Church, in a sense, “creates” sins, by binding the conscience of the believer in matters that, so far as we know, Jesus Himself never spoke about.”

It should be pointed out that Jesus never spoke about abortion, cloning, euthanasia, polygamy, etc. So that’s not really much of an argument.

But remeber that the Church is our Mother, in a sense. Mothers may require that their kids eat their veggies even though kids find the rule to be arbitrary. There may even be punishment for the kids if they don’t do what their Mother tells them to do. Eventually, when the kiddies (hopefully) mature, they will realize that their Mom was right all along, and her rules were for their own good—they eat veggies without having to be told because they realize, finally, the benefits to their health. So it is with Mother Church: she requires us to follow her rules. We may not understand them, but as we mature in our spiritual life, we realize that they are there for our spiritual health, and then we follow them out of love and a desire to be closer to Jesus, which we discover (perhaps to our surprise) that that is what our Mother wanted all along. No one has to tell me to go to Mass: I know the value now, though I didn’t when I was young and immature. When I came back to the Church after many years away (some of those as a Protestant), I really wrestled with a number of questions, for example, birth control. When I really examined the Church’s position, I realized the Church was right. And so it went, issue after issue. My Mother Church has my best interests in her heart, and so I will listen to her. Obedience is a virtue, but as one progresses and matures in one’s spiritual life, these “rules” are simply not seen as rules, but what they really are: aids to holiness.

Regarding the eating of meat on Fridays: the discipline was not changed as much as you think it was. We, as Catholics, are still required to make an act of penance on all Fridays. It’s just that it can be something else instead of refraining from meat, though that is still recommended (I do not eat meat on Fridays). I obey the Church in making this act of penance, and by so doing I am reminded, on Fridays, of Our Lord’s Passion. Am I doing it out of a fear of comitting a sin? No, but then I’ve matured a bit in my spiritual life: I am pleased to make an act of penance, and am thankful that the Church provides a reminder for me (sometimes I need that help).

As for priestly celibacy in the Latin Rite: no one has a “right” to the priesthood. If someone wants to be married AND a priest, then he can, perhaps, look into the Eastern Churches that are in communion with Rome. When he becomes a priest in the Latin Rite, he takes vows. Breaking sacred vows is a sin, and I don’t think you should have a problem with that, as there is Scriptural support for that concept.

 

[awfulthings9]

CARose:

I don’t think either scripture or the church forbids circumcision, I thought it merely doesn’t require it. Besides, I don’t see how we would have something that Jesus did be forbidden. (See the CCC 527)

CARose

No, if you read through Hebrews, the inspired author writes that if we are circumsized, we are bound by the old law. I can’t remember chapter and verse. The point is that Scripture (or the church) WASN’T (I’m not yelling, just emphasizing) forbidding circumcision, except to a group who thought is was necessary. It was a discipline for a very specific group, not binding up on the whole church.

 

[CARose]

awfulthings9:

No, if you read through Hebrews, the inspired author writes that if we are circumsized, we are bound by the old law. I can’t remember chapter and verse. The point is that Scripture (or the church) WASN’T (I’m not yelling, just emphasizing) forbidding circumcision, except to a group who thought is was necessary. It was a discipline for a very specific group, not binding up on the whole church.

Actually, I think you’re referring to Acts 15:1-35, rather than Hebrews. My Strongs Concordance doesn’t reference “circumcision” in Hebrews. If you read the account of the Jerusalem Council through from beginning to end, you’ll see that they merely suggest that additional requirements are not necessary and that those who suggested they were necessary were upsetting them with teachings that did not have mandate from Jerusalem.

If there is another incident in Hebrews, I apologize, I just don’t see it listed in Strongs.

CARose

 

[awfulthings9]

CARose:

Actually, I think you’re referring to Acts 15:1-35, rather than Hebrews. My Strongs Concordance doesn’t reference “circumcision” in Hebrews. If you read the account of the Jerusalem Council through from beginning to end, you’ll see that they merely suggest that additional requirements are not necessary and that those who suggested they were necessary were upsetting them with teachings that did not have mandate from Jerusalem.

If there is another incident in Hebrews, I apologize, I just don’t see it listed in Strongs.

CARose

CARose,
I am the one who owes the apology. Here I’ve been spouting off that this was in Hebrews (and deep down this nagged at me since the focus of Hebrews is wrong for this verse). Finally, I’ve had time to sit down and search. The verse I was referring to was Galatians 5:3. This makes more sense, anyway, since Galatians is sort of a summary of Romans, the great book about the transition from the old covenant to the new. Sigh. Please forgive me for my hasty posts. I think my point is that Paul is writing to a group who is tempted to circumcise, so he tells them not to. It is not binding on the whole church, but applicable to one situation, one group. I see similarities, for instance, to the idea that the rules for Friday can be altered, but still binding. The point is that even a conditional rule, as long as it is given for the good of a person or group by a spiritual father, such as Paul or the Pope, is binding in the sense that God placed that person in charge and to ignore this directive is to let pride’s show its ugly head. Anyway, thanks for holding me to task.

 

[Jlcastagna]

Iambic Pen,

Well after reading every post I guess I’ll put in my two cents one of the few times I’ve done so . It is not a matter of if you will become a member of the RCC its a matter of when, you have more knowledge and understanding of the faith at this point then 80% of Catholics, and that might be a conservative estimate. So don’t let this surprise you when you do enter the Church. Unfortunately there are so many nuggets of insight and wisdom to be found and understood that it’s impossible to find them all within a lifetime. Don’t let this stop you from searching or continueing your spiritual journey. We should pray that God continue to push us and every person into a deeper knowledge and understanding of faith.

So much has been said about the sheep in the pasture that I’ll go with the theme. Jesus (The Shepherd) formed A Church (the flock) not 30,000+ Churches (flocks) almost 2000 years ago and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. The Good Shepherd desires to save every sheep even those not in flocks. But, He always desires to have just one Flock as He prayed for in the Garden of Gethsemane. This Flock (the RCC) he always leads to the greenest part of the pasture so that it can partake with him (in the Mass) of the best food (The Eucharist). The other flocks are still being fed just not of the best food. Satan, the father of lies and master of confusion is always coming into the pasture trying to steal sheep and even whole flocks and take them to the otherside of the fence outside of the pasture. Satan has done his job well. He has made the fence so it is invisible to us sheep. We may instinctively know that some sheep or flocks are on the other side of the fence at this time, but others we have no idea as to which side of the fence they are on. Always follow The Good Shepherd and stay as close to him as possible and have as many meals with him as you can.

May God Bless and Protect us all,
JLC

 

[The_Iambic_Pen]

Thanks for the replies! Sorry I have been slow in responding again! I think that may well be the state of things for a while. Still, I assure you all that my studying continues.

CARose:

One of the ways of practicing the humility desired by Christ is through our acceptance of those authorities placed over us by God.
The Church is one such authority placed in our lives. We can either accept it, and the disciplines it hands down to it’s adherants, or we can choose to not accept it. We have free will in these things. Things such as not eating meat on Fridays (which, unknown to many Catholics is still recommended, although not required) are ways we can grow in our sanctity. They lead us into greater conformity with Christ as we take everyday tasks such as eating and move them into a higher realm.

I can see what you’re saying, and of course, Catholics should accept the authority of the Church, even on matters of discipline. I guess the question is not, “Should Catholics obey the Church?” because of course they should. Rather, the question is, “Why does the Church bind the conscience in these ways?”

Matt16_18:

Parents set rules of discipline for their children, e.g. “be in bed by 9:00 p.m. on school night.” A child that breaks that rule is sinning because he is under the moral obligation to be obedient to his parent. There isn’t anything inherently sinful about staying up past 9:00 p.m. The child’s sin in breaking this rule of discipline is in being disobedient to the parent who has divinely established authority over him…

…Christ gave his bishops authority over the flock in matters of Church discipline. If the bishops decide that Church discipline is abstinence on Friday, the Catholic sins when he disregards the authority of the shepherds, just as a child sins when he sneaks around to stay up past his bedtime.

Thanks for the explanation! So, I can see that one should obey the Church even in matters of discipline and not just doctrine. Great example, by the way.

I guess I’m just wary of prohibitions regarding activities that aren’t sins. In my experience, this applies to the common Evangelical Protestant prohibition of alcohol (even in moderation). For years, one could not be an official member of my church without abstaining completely from alcohol. I always thought this was odd, as by our standards, Jesus Himself could not be a member of our church. At any rate, this changed a few years back, which upset a number of the older people in the church, who had been raised to believe even having a small amount of wine for Communion was wrong (hence the grape juice).

awfulthings9:

Hey Iambic,
Here’s my take on this issue. To look at it on the surface, it seems so trivial that someone is breaking a simple, changeable rule and becoming guilty of mortal sin. The sin, however, is not in the actual consumption of meat, which is not an evil act in and of itself. The sin is that of Pride in that we are saying, “God, I know you put the church in charge of making rules to guide me spiritually, but I’m going to do it my way.”

That makes sense. So, the sin is not in eating meat on Friday, but rather disobeying the divinely instituted authority of the Church.

Does that make sense? I know I rambled.

It did, and you didn’t ramble.

continued…

 

[The_Iambic_Pen]

…continued

Sherlock:

It should be pointed out that Jesus never spoke about abortion, cloning, euthanasia, polygamy, etc. So that’s not really much of an argument.

Well, for the sake of argument, I could say that one could determine the sinfulness of these actions by looking at Biblical prohibitions and guidelines. Disciplinary practices regarding the eating of meat on Fridays, for example, are in a different category.

So it is with Mother Church: she requires us to follow her rules. We may not understand them, but as we mature in our spiritual life, we realize that they are there for our spiritual health, and then we follow them out of love and a desire to be closer to Jesus, which we discover (perhaps to our surprise) that that is what our Mother wanted all along.

That makes sense.

Obedience is a virtue, but as one progresses and matures in one’s spiritual life, these “rules” are simply not seen as rules, but what they really are: aids to holiness.

That too.

As for priestly celibacy in the Latin Rite: no one has a “right” to the priesthood. If someone wants to be married AND a priest, then he can, perhaps, look into the Eastern Churches that are in communion with Rome. When he becomes a priest in the Latin Rite, he takes vows. Breaking sacred vows is a sin, and I don’t think you should have a problem with that, as there is Scriptural support for that concept.

And I certainly don’t advocate breaking vows. I just struggle with this requirement of a vow of celibacy in the first place. Obviously, if someone makes the vow, they should keep it.

Jlcastagna:

It is not a matter of if you will become a member of the RCC its a matter of when, you have more knowledge and understanding of the faith at this point then 80% of Catholics, and that might be a conservative estimate. So don’t let this surprise you when you do enter the Church.

Well, you’re probably right. Knowing what I know now, I don’t see how I can really continue as a Protestant. Since I began studying Catholicism, it has all made so much sense, and arguments against it haven’t made any sense at all. I guess any hesitancy remaining has to do with a little stubborn Protestantism inherited from who knows how many generations. At any rate, I think it’s about time I put down the silly protest sign, as I’m really not protesting anything anymore.

Unfortunately there are so many nuggets of insight and wisdom to be found and understood that it’s impossible to find them all within a lifetime. Don’t let this stop you from searching or continueing your spiritual journey. We should pray that God continue to push us and every person into a deeper knowledge and understanding of faith.

Yes indeed! May this be so for all people.

Always follow The Good Shepherd and stay as close to him as possible and have as many meals with him as you can.

Amen!

 

[reen12]

Dear Jlcastagna,

quote:Jlcastagna

So much has been said about the sheep in the pasture that I’ll go with the theme. Jesus (The Shepherd) formed A Church (the flock) not 30,000+ Churches (flocks) almost 2000 years ago and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. The Good Shepherd desires to save every sheep even those not in flocks. But, He always desires to have just one Flock as He prayed for in the Garden of Gethsemane. This Flock (the RCC) he always leads to the greenest part of the pasture so that it can partake with him (in the Mass) of the best food (The Eucharist).FPRIVATE “TYPE=PICT;ALT=” The other flocks are still being fed just not of the best food. Satan, the father of lies and master of confusion is always coming into the pasture trying to steal sheep and even whole flocks and take them to the otherside of the fence outside of the pasture. Satan has done his job well. He has made the fence so it is invisible to us sheep. We may instinctively know that some sheep or flocks are on the other side of the fence at this time, but others we have no idea as to which side of the fence they are on. Always follow The Good Shepherd and stay as close to him as possible and have as many meals with him as you can.

A fine piece of work, a solid effort.

I’ve been posting regularly, since this past February.

I started out by saying: All I want to do is to pray to the

God I loved, at age 6.

In these 7 months, I’ve had some wonderful

exchanges on these forums.

The bottom line, in terms of faith, seems to be:

-Jesus is Messiah
-His Church teaches infallibly
-salvation is in Him, through His Church

Having read reams of replies, defending this

faith position, I’ve decided to leave the pasture.

I wouldn’t want to spend time huddling near a

“Good Shepherd”, in the wrong pasture - a figment

of hope, not reality.

---

My instincts, last February, were to be trusted:

quote: reen12

I affirm my love of God, Who made all things,
Who created me to know Him, love Him and serve Him,
in this life, and to be happy with Him, in the next.
[before things got way too complicated, for me, with
references to a Trinity.]

I was made glad, by this awareness, at age 6, and
will continue in that gladness, as I approach age 60.

---

As to true flock, sheep rustlers, inferior grass [aka: not
green enough], “the best food”, satanic prowling and “master of confusion” !!

quote:reen12

[before things got way too complicated, for me, with
references to a Trinity.]

I had no idea how complicated it could get.

So, I’ll stay on page 1, of the Baltimore Catechism,
where it told me Who God was, who I was, why
He made me, and where I was going, at life’s end.

…my instincts, last February, were more accurate
than I knew.

reen

 

[antiaphrodite]

hi, The_Iambic_Pen!!! just wanted to say w’re all praying for your journey. may God Bless you always!!!

 

[Jlcastagna]

reen12,

Page 1 is always the best place to start and the best place to retreat to when things get confusing. Part of my daily prayer is from page 1, for not only myself, but for you, and every soul that we may come to Know, Love and Serve the Father completely. Maureen, we are all in this together we are all part of the Mystcal Body of Christ. We each have our own part to play and we are all on the journey at different rates of travel. The important thing is that we continue on the journey, hopefully learning from our mistakes, which sometimes means we need to revisit places we’ve already been like to page 1. I know it is frustrating when someone is not in the same place as we are on the journey. Trust me I’ve been frustrated by those who I have perceived as both being ahead of me and behind me on the path. I’ve learned things from both also. Just remember that since Christ ascended to heaven there is no one with all the answers, but God can choose anyone or any way to reveal things to us when he wants to so be aware at all times . As I said before:Unfortunately there are so many nuggets of insight and wisdom to be found and understood that it’s impossible to find them all within a lifetime. Don’t let this stop you from searching or continuing your spiritual journey. We should pray that God continue to push us and every person into a deeper knowledge and understanding of faith.

May God Bless and Protect Us All,
JLC

 

[reen12]

My thought, after reeling from the true flock account:

I’ve snuck back into the pasture.

[It took me only 14 hours to return to the pasture,

which is a new record, for me, in terms of

making a comeback…a good sign.]

What enabled me to do that, was God’s grace,

and re-reading what I had written, a while back:

quote: reen12
But, in terms of the theology of what the good news is,
in it’s fulness?

IMO, the successors traded the fulness of the good news,
for a systematic theology [which was in full place, by the 16th century, - which theology both obscured, and distorted, the fulness of the good news, as well as the description of what
Christ had accomplished, found in the Pauline letters.]

The flock is scattered. Part of the *reality, *of what
Christ accomplished, is in the rightful custody of the “dissenters”, who treasure that reality. The greatest truth -
the Mass - is with the RCC and Orthodoxy, IMO.

The only way this mess can be righted, is for Christ
to come again, in majectic instancy, as Francis
Thompson put it.

The Church will survive, until then, but it will take the
Shepherd Himself, to restore the flock to unity.

It’ll take me awhile to recover from the concept that
the grass I’m nibbling might not be as green as it
might, but I think the Shepherd realized I was feeling
down, because He gave me a clump of fresh green clover.
He told me to rest against Him, and that, because
He can “make all things new”, all the grass in His
pasture is lush and green.

He told the sheep that it was His concern
to keep any prowlers at bay, thus reviving our drooping
spirits - and that “not one of these, entrusted to Me,
will be lost.” We bleated our relief, and snuggled
even closer. It’s safe, here with Him.

“And the peace I give, no one will take from you.”

reen

 

[Sherlock]

The Iambic Pen:

…
Well, for the sake of argument, I could say that one could determine the sinfulness of these actions by looking at Biblical prohibitions and guidelines. Disciplinary practices regarding the eating of meat on Fridays, for example, are in a different category.

And I certainly don’t advocate breaking vows. I just struggle with this requirement of a vow of celibacy in the first place. Obviously, if someone makes the vow, they should keep it.

Hi Iambic Pen,

It’s been a pleasure exchanging posts with you. God bless you on your journey.

Just a couple of comments on the snippets above: You’re right about most of the items I listed being possibly derived from Biblical guidelines or prohibitions (with Friday penance being in a different category). But I would point out that it’s not really as clear as you suggest in some cases: for example, there truly isn’t much to dictate monogamy (vs. polygamy, that is) in Scripture. In fact, Luther concluded that it was permissible (another prominent Protestant reformer did as well, but I can’t remember who–maybe someone here will know). It’s actually more of a Church directive than a Scriptural directive. And cloning is nowhere mentioned in Scripture, but the Church’s teaching on this is unwavering.

As for celibacy: both Jesus and St. Paul recommend it, therefore, though you “struggle with this requirement of a vow of celibacy in the first place”, I think the Catholic Church is wise to do what those two recommend.

 

[The_Iambic_Pen]

antiaphrodite:

hi, The_Iambic_Pen!!! just wanted to say w’re all praying for your journey. may God Bless you always!!!

Thank you! May God bless you too!

Sherlock:

It’s been a pleasure exchanging posts with you. God bless you on your journey.

It’s been a pleasure for me as well! God bless!

Just a couple of comments on the snippets above: …

True, although the Bible itself seems to praise monogamy (a man and his wife shall become one flesh, a deacon should be the husband of but one wife, etc…), despite the fact that many in the Bible did not practice it. Cloning is a bit more difficult, as this was obviously not an issue at the time the books of the Bible were written. While I think the Bible speaks highly of the value of the individual human life, and cloning seems to reduce that value, I will admit there is no clear prohibition of the practice in Scripture.

As for celibacy: both Jesus and St. Paul recommend it, therefore, though you “struggle with this requirement of a vow of celibacy in the first place”, I think the Catholic Church is wise to do what those two recommend.

Well, to be honest, I have seen many married Protestant ministers (my own father included) have a very difficult time balancing their ministry and their marriage. So, perhaps the Catholic Church really is right on this.

Well, I went to Mass again this last Sunday (three times now!), which was very good. I feel more comfortable every time I go. I’m not sure what happened to that RCIA class they mentioned, but I do think I am learning a great deal as it is. When I return to the U.S., I hope to enter a formal program at a local church.

God Bless!

 

[Mickey]

The Iambic Pen:

Well, I went to Mass again this last Sunday (three times now!), which was very good. I feel more comfortable every time I go. I’m not sure what happened to that RCIA class they mentioned, but I do think I am learning a great deal as it is. When I return to the U.S., I hope to enter a formal program at a local church.

From The Divine Liturgy of St John Chrysostom:

May our mouths be filled with Your praise, O Lord, so that we may sing Your glory, for You have deemed us worthy to partake of Your holy, divine, immortal and life-giving mysteries. Keep us in Your holiness, so that all day long we may learn Your righteousness. Alleluia! Alleluia! Alleluia!

Good luck and God Bless you Iambic Pen!

 

[kayla]

Fr. Larry Richards has a great CD or Tape called:

“The Truth”
go to the link below to order, I have listened to it many times and passed it on to friends who loved it.

pages.hosting.domaindirect.com/stjoesbol.org/Tapes/online.htm

 

[Sherlock]

The Iambic Pen:

True, although the Bible itself seems to praise monogamy (a man and his wife shall become one flesh, a deacon should be the husband of but one wife, etc…), despite the fact that many in the Bible did not practice it. Cloning is a bit more difficult, as this was obviously not an issue at the time the books of the Bible were written. While I think the Bible speaks highly of the value of the individual human life, and cloning seems to reduce that value, I will admit there is no clear prohibition of the practice in Scripture.

Well, I went to Mass again this last Sunday (three times now!), which was very good. I feel more comfortable every time I go. I’m not sure what happened to that RCIA class they mentioned, but I do think I am learning a great deal as it is. When I return to the U.S., I hope to enter a formal program at a local church.
God Bless!

First of all—whoo–hoo! If you have any questions about what is going on at Mass, be sure to ask. Also, if you would like any material (books, etc.) that explain the Mass, let me know and I’ll see what I have on my bookshelves that I can send you. Also, when you get back in the States, be sure to tell us here on the forum where you are—that way, someone here might be able to direct you to a solidly orthodox RCIA program in your area (unfortunately, it’s not always a sure thing).

I agree about the quotes about a man and wife becoming one flesh, although apparently multiple wives was not seen as a contradiction with that in the Old Testament. And yes, the New Testament does mention being married to just one wife as being a requirement of bishops and deacons, but is silent on what the lay folks should do. So, you can see how Luther and other Protestants arrived at their views about polygamy—it IS a reasonable position, if the Bible alone is one’s source of authority! Monogamy is a Church tradition, not so much a Bible tradition.

Regarding celibacy, just an observation: given the fact that both Jesus and St. Paul recommend it, isn’t it a bit odd that so few Protestant ministers are celibate? When I was a Protestant, I never came across ANY single pastors—not one. Why do you suppose that is? I’d be interested in your opinions.

By the way, I came across a post of yours on another thread in which you express some consternation at all of the “errors” in the Catechism. I forgot to see how old the post was, but just in case it was recent I wanted to mention that the person wanting to make it sound as if the Catechism is full of errors (and by this he means more than typos and poor translations) is likely what is referred to as a “rad trad”—a radical traditionalist. Some of these people (like Feeneyites and the Society of St. Pius X) are not in communion with the Church because of their whack-job views, so you must keep that in mind when coming across stuff like that. In short, consider the source.

God Bless!

 

[The_Iambic_Pen]

Well, I haven’t been posting as much lately, as I’ve been very busy. I’m still here, though!

Sherlock:

First of all—whoo–hoo! If you have any questions about what is going on at Mass, be sure to ask. Also, if you would like any material (books, etc.) that explain the Mass, let me know and I’ll see what I have on my bookshelves that I can send you. Also, when you get back in the States, be sure to tell us here on the forum where you are—that way, someone here might be able to direct you to a solidly orthodox RCIA program in your area (unfortunately, it’s not always a sure thing).

Well, when I get back to the States, I’ll be at Fort Stewart, Georgia. The nearest city is Hinesville, GA, and the nearest large city is Savannah, GA.

Monogamy is a Church tradition, not so much a Bible tradition.

So, is monogamy a discipline, rather than a doctrine?

Regarding celibacy, just an observation: given the fact that both Jesus and St. Paul recommend it, isn’t it a bit odd that so few Protestant ministers are celibate? When I was a Protestant, I never came across ANY single pastors—not one. Why do you suppose that is? I’d be interested in your opinions.

Hmmhh…I can’t really think of any single Protestant ministers either (except for maybe a few young youth pastors, just starting in the ministry). I speak from personal experience, as my own father was a Protestant minister, and I was around other pastors all the time.

By the way, I came across a post of yours on another thread in which you express some consternation at all of the “errors” in the Catechism. I forgot to see how old the post was, but just in case it was recent I wanted to mention that the person wanting to make it sound as if the Catechism is full of errors (and by this he means more than typos and poor translations) is likely what is referred to as a “rad trad”—a radical traditionalist. Some of these people (like Feeneyites and the Society of St. Pius X) are not in communion with the Church because of their whack-job views, so you must keep that in mind when coming across stuff like that. In short, consider the source.

Yes, I may have been playing the “ignorant Protestant” part a bit much at the time, as I identified the poster as a “rad trad” right off. Still, I had thought the Catechism was considered to be absolutely accurate, so I was surprised to find it was not considered an infallible document.

In regard to “Obstacles on the Road to Rome,” I must admit that my family is a bit of an obstacle. This is not to say that my fear of conflict will keep me from the truth, as I will do God’s will regardless of my family’s opinions. Still, it is something about which I request your prayers. They haven’t done the research I have, and they are a bit mystified at my sudden interest in Catholicism. I’ve tried to explain the whole process that has led me to this point, but confusion remains. Just the other day, I got an e-mail from my mother, and she was wondering what problems I had with my faith that would lead me to want to leave it. I tried explaining that I wasn’t intending to leave anything, but rather to grow in my faith, but I’m not sure how effective my explanation was. At any rate, my family isn’t hostile, they just don’t understand. As my mother said, she knows I love God, she knows I have faith in Him, and she knows I desire to know the truth. She just believes my possible choice of Catholicism is a wrong choice, and she says she does not feel peace about it. So, please pray for me about this, and pray for my family as well. I must say, at no point in my life did I ever think I would someday have religious differences with my entire family…

God Bless!

 

[E.E.N.S]

The Iambic Pen:

Well, I haven’t been posting as much lately, as I’ve been very busy. I’m still here, though!

Sherlock:
Well, when I get back to the States, I’ll be at Fort Stewart, Georgia. The nearest city is Hinesville, GA, and the nearest large city is Savannah, GA.

So, is monogamy a discipline, rather than a doctrine?

Hmmhh…I can’t really think of any single Protestant ministers either (except for maybe a few young youth pastors, just starting in the ministry). I speak from personal experience, as my own father was a Protestant minister, and I was around other pastors all the time.

Yes, I may have been playing the “ignorant Protestant” part a bit much at the time, as I identified the poster as a “rad trad” right off. Still, I had thought the Catechism was considered to be absolutely accurate, so I was surprised to find it was not considered an infallible document.

In regard to “Obstacles on the Road to Rome,” I must admit that my family is a bit of an obstacle. This is not to say that my fear of conflict will keep me from the truth, as I will do God’s will regardless of my family’s opinions. Still, it is something about which I request your prayers. They haven’t done the research I have, and they are a bit mystified at my sudden interest in Catholicism. I’ve tried to explain the whole process that has led me to this point, but confusion remains. Just the other day, I got an e-mail from my mother, and she was wondering what problems I had with my faith that would lead me to want to leave it. I tried explaining that I wasn’t intending to leave anything, but rather to grow in my faith, but I’m not sure how effective my explanation was. At any rate, my family isn’t hostile, they just don’t understand. As my mother said, she knows I love God, she knows I have faith in Him, and she knows I desire to know the truth. She just believes my possible choice of Catholicism is a wrong choice, and she says she does not feel peace about it. So, please pray for me about this, and pray for my family as well. I must say, at no point in my life did I ever think I would someday have religious differences with my entire family…

God Bless!

I have been and will continue to pray for you, brother.

 

[sententia]

Hey Iambic,

As far as this, "

And I certainly don’t advocate breaking vows. I just struggle with this requirement of a vow of celibacy in the first place. Obviously, if someone makes the vow, they should keep it.
"

I think it may be beneficial for you to actually go and talk to a priest about this- what better than the horses mouth, so to speak! It isn’t like we spring it on these guys, they are aware throughout dicernment and formation that if God is calling them to the Latin rite, then he will help them with the call them to celibacy as well. Anyway, I think you might enjoy speaking to a priest about it.

 

[Matt16_18]

The Iambic Pen:

So, is monogamy a discipline, rather than a doctrine?

Monogamy in an unchangeable moral doctrine of the Catholic Church.

The requirement of celibacy for priests is a church discipline for the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church, a discipline that can be dispensed with, as in the case of a married Anglican priest that converts to the Catholic Church. The Eastern Rites of the Catholic Church never have had a discipline whereby only celibate men can be priests. There have always been married priests within the Catholic Church!

In regard to “Obstacles on the Road to Rome,” I must admit that my family is a bit of an obstacle. This is not to say that my fear of conflict will keep me from the truth, as I will do God’s will regardless of my family’s opinions. Still, it is something about which I request your prayers.

It is an honor to offer those prayers.

Just the other day, I got an e-mail from my mother, and she was wondering what problems I had with my faith that would lead me to want to leave it. I tried explaining that I wasn’t intending to leave anything, but rather to grow in my faith, but I’m not sure how effective my explanation was.

The Catholic Church has the fullness of the faith. This is a winning situation for you. You get to keep everything that is true that was taught in your Protestant denomination (since that truth is already taught in the Catholic Church), and you get more truth, greater depth of spirituality and the ultimate gift of all – the Eucharist.