Obtaining God's Forgiveness

[Gadgeteer]

Hi, Gadgeteer!

I think that what is missing in their understanding is that in deed God has allowed them (Israel) to shut their eyes and close their ears so that the Gentiles can be afforded the opportunity of Salvation:

It is in this relationship that God allows Israel to fail so that all may share in on God’s Mercy, in His Salvific Plan (St. John 1:10-12; 3:16; Romans 9 thru 11–specifically: 11:25-32).

That’s true — it is “the great mystery” spoken of by Paul, “also Gentiles”. (Eph3:4-6)

But the answer to RT’s use of Acts13:48, first is “if the Jews unelected themselves, then how could Paul mean that God sovereignly elected Gentiles?” (And then we can get into Greek, “tetagmenoi” means “positioned”, and it can be understood “positioned themselves”.)

 

[jcrichton]

That’s true — it is “the great mystery” spoken of by Paul, “also Gentiles”. (Eph3:4-6)

But the answer to RT’s use of Acts13:48, first is “if the Jews unelected themselves, then how could Paul mean that God sovereignly elected Gentiles?” (And then we can get into Greek, “tetagmenoi” means “positioned”, and it can be understood “positioned themselves”.)

Hi, Gadgeteer!

…and what do they do with?:

50 But the Jews worked upon some of the devout women of the upper classes and the leading men of the city and persuaded them to turn against Paul and Barnabas and expel them from their territory.

(Acts 13:50)
…this is clearly and opposition to God’s Salvific Plan–so how can God’s Will be derailed if He has predestined that His “elect” “preach Salvation onto the Gentiles?” Is man stronger than God that he can un-predestine those who God has “predestined?”

There’s no other way to understand these passages than as God’s Salvific Plan made known (brought) so that all may be Saved; yet, man must collaborate with his own Salvation by accepting God’s Free Gift of Life!

Conversely, it would be mute for God to offer any warnings against the loss of what man does not have and can never attain or against that which the “predestined” posses and can never lose:

7 We have been called by God to be holy, not to be immoral; 8 in other words, anyone who objects is not objecting to a human authority, but to God, who gives you his Holy Spirit.

(Ephesians 4:7-8)

1 Are you people in Galatia mad? Has someone put a spell on you, in spite of the plain explanation you have had of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ? 2 Let me ask you one question: was it because you practised the Law that you received the Spirit, or because you believed what was preached to you? 3 Are you foolish enough to end in outward observances what you began in the Spirit? (Galatians 3:1-3)

9 Pain and suffering will come to every human being who employs himself in evil – Jews first, but Greeks as well; (Romans 2:9)

36 So I tell you this, that for every unfounded word men utter they will answer on Judgement day, 37 since it is by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words condemned.’ (St. Matthew 12:36-37)
It is man’s willingness to humble himself to God that will secure his Salvation; yet, it is also man’s willingness to reject God that secures his damnation.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[PJM]

I meant “differences of opinion”; someone said “Opinions are like noses, everybody has one.”

Yes; people have “itching ears” – and love doctrine that embraces prior desires, especially sinful ones. Please see 2Tim3:1ff…

SORRY ABOUT THE DELAYED REPLY. Just last night got home after 12 days in the hospital.

Indeed, their will be a Fair Judgement based upon what GOD has made possible for us to know, rather than our personal preferences and choices .

In the worlds of both Catholicism and Protestantism, too often Christianity is viewed as “driving down our roads of life, Jesus and the Father and the Spirit all neatly wrapped and packaged and lying on the seat next to us, always ready to help if ever needed.” And this misses the intimacy that is salvation; John says (1:1:3) our FELLOWSHIP is with the Father and with His Son. Paul says (Eph5:18) “be filled with the Spirit” — with the PERSON of the Spirit.

I love the bumper-sticker — “If Jesus isn’t driving, you’re in the wrong seat!” (Gal2:20!)

Do we enter within the veil and fellowship with a very real, personable God? Or do we keep Him at a distance, perceiving Him as austere and unknowable? What love is it that sends “one’s only begotten Son” to die for the objects of that love, who then never utter a syllable of fellowship and companionship in return? :bighanky:

Why does God do that? Why permit people to accept or reject Him? Because — God is LOVE, and love cannot demand its own way. (1Cor13:5!)

Beautifully put:thumbsup:

For God to dictate before time who hates Him and who loves Him back, is the most fundamental violation of His nature – He is love, and each person must be free to love Him back, or it isn’t love. This has to be the most effective response to Reformed Theologians — God cannot predestine anyone either to life, or to fire!

AMEN!

Nicely done!

I think at the Reformation, Catholicism had taken some “wrong turns”; things like selling indulgences, etcetera.[WHICH was soon corrected & abolished]…inserted by PJM] Yet – the Reformation took some seriously wrong turns. Why would it be wrong to aid?

“Reformed Theologian” – one who believes that God predestines both people to be wicked (inescapably), and a get back to what the Apostles and even early church fathers sfew to be saved (irresistibly). Sin is absolutely escapable by His power, and salvation is absolutely resistible by our stubbornness. Goodness, God’s kindness and patience and forbearance lead us to repentance, even those who stubbornly refuse and store wrath for themselves! Those WHO by perseverance in doing good seek glory honor and immortality, they receive eternal life; but those WHO are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. Because God IS NOT PARTIAL! (Rom2:4-11)

Why won’t RT’s acknowledge that “partiality” is what their doctrine charges God?

A quite common condition of many Protestants re PREDESTINATION is at least to me, an apparent, an evident lack of understanding of the very Nature of God and ALSO of humanity.

Gen 1:26-27 teaches clearly that we [all of humanity] is created in the very IMAGE of our God: John 4:23-24

With right understanding: as “GOD IS SPIRIT” & it is with man’s exclusive ability to freely choose and rationalize , requiring a mind, intellect and freewill [all like GOD & spiritual realities] that logically undermines and refutes biblical predestination as GOD, in order to be GOD cannot override mans’ ability to freely choose for themselves eternal life or eternal hell, and still be our ALL PERFECT GOD. … God does KNOW what our choices will be; BUT limits Himself to OFFERING [which can be and often is refused] his sufficient grace; but does not otherwise interfere with our freewill choices…

(Acts10:34-35 – those WHO come to God, He welcomes, He is not partial!)

BUT God desires that all do so HIS [God’s] way.

Continued Blessings
Patrick

 

[Gadgeteer]

SORRY ABOUT THE DELAYED REPLY. Just last night got home after 12 days in the hospital.

Omigosh, what happened? Are you all right?

Indeed, there will be a Fair Judgement based upon what GOD has made possible for us to know, rather than our personal preferences and choices.

God makes it possible for every person to seek and to find Him, He’s not far from anyone. Acts17:26-31. The “word-of-faith” is in EVERY heart and mouth (Deut30:11-14), in those who can confess believe and be saved (Rom10:6-10), and in those who turn away disobey and perish (Deut30:17-18); He sets before us life and death, the blessing and the curse, and commands us to CHOOSE LIFE by loving Him, by obeying Him, and by holding fast to Him! (Deut30:19-20!)

The simplicity of Scripture is in passages like these; and in Ezk18:31-32. (If anyone thinks he or she does not have to look these up, be informed there WILL be a test on these verses, and they will go in your PERMANENT RECORD…)

Beautifully put:thumbsup:

:hug3:

AMEN!

This stuff (and the stuff in the previous paragraphs) are so straightforward; why make all that effort to deny it and embrace “Tyrant-Predestination”? Uhm, I mean — “Sovereign Predestined Salvation”?

A quite common condition of many Protestants re PREDESTINATION is at least to me, an apparent, an evident lack of understanding of the very Nature of God and ALSO of humanity.

They don’t believe in “total depravity” — but much farther, “total INABILITY”. Any thoughts to the contrary are met with charges of “PELAGIANISM” (or “Semi-Pelagianism” — that man has [some] inherent good and does not need God to draw him first. Not true, God draws all men, and sufficient to overcome depravity so that each CAN enter in, or turn away. Goodness — Rom10:6-10, connecting with Deut30:11-20 (Rm10:6 cites Deut30:12, Rm10:8 cites Deut30:14) — completely destroys Calvinism, there is no defense!

Gen 1:26-27 teaches clearly that we [all of humanity] is created in the very IMAGE of our God: John 4:23-24

THAT — is a profound point that is too often MISSED!

What about God are we imaged like? If God has “free will”, how can we not?

With right understanding: as “GOD IS SPIRIT” & it is with man’s exclusive ability to freely choose and rationalize, requiring a mind, intellect and freewill [all like GOD & spiritual realities] that logically undermines and refutes biblical predestination as GOD, in order to be GOD cannot override mans’ ability to freely choose for themselves eternal life or eternal hell, and still be our ALL PERFECT GOD. … God does KNOW what our choices will be; BUT limits Himself to OFFERING [which can be and often is refused] his sufficient grace; but does not otherwise interfere with our freewill choices…

Profoundly excellent, well done!

:clapping::clapping::clapping:

BUT God desires that all do so HIS [God’s] way.

God commands all men to love Him, Matt22:37 (Deut6:5). God commands ALL MEN EVERYWHERE to repent, Acts17:31. But a “command” is only issued, where there is a choice to DISOBEY.

Which part of that is confusing?

Continued Blessings
Patrick

And to you, brother.

 

[PJM]

Omigosh, what happened? Are you all right?

I’m 72 and as good as God wants me to be… and THANKS for the prayers, still need them!

God makes it possible for every person to seek and to find Him, He’s not far from anyone. Acts17:26-31. The “word-of-faith” is in EVERY heart and mouth (Deut30:11-14), in those who can confess believe and be saved (Rom10:6-10), and in those who turn away disobey and perish (Deut30:17-18); He sets before us life and death, the blessing and the curse, and commands us to CHOOSE LIFE by loving Him, by obeying Him, and by holding fast to Him! (Deut30:19-20!)

All true But conditionally so.

Every human Soul will be judged not on what one has freely chosen to belief, accept and live; RATHER it will be on what GOD has made possible for each soul to know, accept and live.

Being active on CAF can be conditionally dangerous to some soul’s. Even if such are unaware os such a reality

The simplicity of Scripture is in passages like these; and in Ezk18:31-32. (If anyone thinks he or she does not have to look these up, be informed there WILL be a test on these verses, and they will go in your PERMANENT RECORD

Here’s the cheat sheet:
Ezek.18 Verses 31 to 32 “[31] Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed against me, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! Why will you die, O house of Israel? [32] For I have no pleasure in the death of any one, says the Lord GOD; so turn, and live.”

And Jesus say’s

1Tim.2 Verses 3 to 4 "This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
[who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of **the truth singular per defined issue

This stuff (and the stuff in the previous paragraphs) are so straightforward; why make all that effort to deny it and embrace “Tyrant-Predestination”? Uhm, I mean — “Sovereign Predestined Salvation”?

As a FYI for our readers

Biblical predestination is in an absolute sense impossible with the current understanding definition of that term.

WHY?

1 It would deny GOD the Sovereign RIGHT to be “perfect”

Gen 1:26-28 teaches us that GOD freely choose to create man in his image; then John 4:23-24 teaches us that God is …"[But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for such the Father seeks to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth"

How is it possible that MORTAL Man is created in the IMAGE of God who is a SPIRIT?

Like God every HUMAN SOUL [and only human souls] are gifted with a Mind, an Intellect and a Freewill; so man alone can rationalize; can sin, can know and obey God or choose not to.

2 If GOD choose to override MAN’S Spiritual gifts [spiritual other self], than God would not be perfect for having given humanity a Gift that He then denied man the use of [Freewill].

Hence “predestination” biblically ONLY means that our ALL-Knowing God was and is aware before hand what each HUMAN SOUL will choose for themselves for Eternity. PRE-KNOWLEDGE is NOT God deciding or God choosing who attain heaven or hell. He leaves that to every human soul to decide for themselves

They don’t believe in “total depravity” — but much farther, “total INABILITY”. Any thoughts to the contrary are met with charges of “PELAGIANISM” (or “Semi-Pelagianism” — that man has [some] inherent good and does not need God to draw him first. Not true, God draws all men, and sufficient to overcome depravity so that each CAN enter in, or turn away. Goodness — Rom10:6-10, connecting with Deut30:11-20 (Rm10:6 cites Deut30:12, Rm10:8 cites Deut30:14) — completely destroys Calvinism, there is no defense!

THAT — is a profound point that is too often MISSED!]QUOTE]

Rom.6: 10 The death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God

Duet 30: 11-20 [deleated for space …use Bible: Revised Standard Version

Rom.10: 6 But the righteousness based on faith says, Do not say in your heart, “Who will ascend into heaven?” (that is, to bring Christ down)

Duet 30:12 "It is not in heaven, that you should say, `Who will go up for us to heaven, and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ "

Rom.10: 8 But what does it say? The word is near you, on your lips and in your heart (that is, the word of faith which we preach);

Duet 30:14 But the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it.

What about God are we imaged like? If God has “free will”, how can we not?

Profoundly excellent, well done!

:clapping::clapping::clapping:

God commands all men to love Him, Matt22:37 (Deut6:5). God commands ALL MEN EVERYWHERE to repent, Acts17:31. But a “command” is only issued, where there is a choice to DISOBEY.

Matt 22:37 "[37] And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.”

Deut.6: [5] and you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might

Which part of that is confusing?

Question: so the all unbelievers are “confused” ? OF COURSE NOT

Most make, directly or indirectly a personal choive either NOT to believe; OR to believe ONLY what appeals to them. AMEN

Continued Blessings
Patrick

And to you, brother.

 

[Gadgeteer]

Hi, Gadgeteer!

…and what do they do with?:
(citation Acts13:50)

Excellent, JCR! I have a paragraph in my book about “persuasion” (like Acts26:28-30, and Jn20:31) — but I did NOT have this verse! My citations were positive-persuasion; I will add this “negative persuasion”, parallel to Matt23:13-15 (and Rom14:15 & 1Cor8:11)…

Thank you!

…this is clearly and opposition to God’s Salvific Plan–so how can God’s Will be derailed if He has predestined that His “elect” “preach Salvation onto the Gentiles?”

What do they do with that? They say, "Oh those who get dissuaded were never REALLY entering in, they were not actually predestined!"

As if…
What about those in Jude23? Were they really in danger of fire, or not?

Is man stronger than God that he can un-predestine those who God has “predestined?”

Have you ever heard the phrase, “EFFECTIVE MEANS”? Why does God need something outside of Himself, to get done what He ordains?

There’s no other way to understand these passages than as God’s Salvific Plan made known (brought) so that all may be Saved; yet, man must collaborate with his own Salvation by accepting God’s Free Gift of Life!

Conversely, it would be moot for God to offer any warnings against the loss of what man does not have and can never attain or against that which the “predestined” posses and can never lose:

Good citations, but only the tip of the iceberg. Do an word-search for “be diligent”, and “hold fast” — there are lots of these, and salvation is absolutely at risk. “BE DILIGENT not to be sluggish, but to imitate those WHO by faith and patience inherit the promises!” “Hold fast to what you have so that no one will steal your crown!”

It is man’s willingness to humble himself to God that will secure his Salvation; yet, it is also man’s willingness to reject God that secures his damnation.

That is 100% what Scripture says; although specific passages state we will be judged according to our deeds (Rom2:6-9, Rev20:13), the only thing that condemns people is unbelief and the only thing that escapes anyone from the Lake of Fire is not being written in the Book.

…and entries in the Book, are also erasable, Ex32:32, Rev3:5!

 

[Gadgeteer]

I’m 72 and as good as God wants me to be…

Well then, it shall remain a mystery.

and THANKS for the prayers, still need them!

Honored to participate; as I am grateful for those who pray for me.

All true But conditionally so.

Every human Soul will be judged not on what one has freely chosen to belief, accept and live; RATHER it will be on what GOD has made possible for each soul to know, accept and live.

Not really understanding you here; in 1Jn5:10 they are condemned who have not believed the testimony God has given…

My point (with passages like Acts17:26-31) is that God makes sure everyone can come.
Zero “Reformed Theology”…

Being active on CAF can be conditionally dangerous to some soul’s. Even if such are unaware of such a reality

I would hope the opposite; if each of us is driven to Scripture to make sure verses are quoted correctly, moved closer to God and the Spirit, and matured in our interaction with brothers and sisters, how can that be harmful?

Here’s the cheat sheet:
Ezek.18 Verses 31 to 32 “[31] Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed against me, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! Why will you die, O house of Israel? [32] For I have no pleasure in the death of any one, says the Lord GOD; so turn, and live.”

'Zactly!

And Jesus says

1Tim.2 Verses 3 to 4 "This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
[who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of **the truth

singular per defined issueRight — and in context, “kings and all authority”, clearly exceeding who could be “sovereign-elect”; it has to mean all-everyone.

As a FYI for our readers

Biblical predestination is in an absolute sense impossible with the current understanding definition of that term.

WHY?

1 It would deny GOD the Sovereign RIGHT to be “perfect”

That’s why they invented “Compatibilism”, trying to insulate God from His necessary involvement in sin…

Gen 1:26-28 teaches us that GOD freely choose to create man in his image; then John 4:23-24 teaches us that God is …"[But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for such the Father seeks to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth"

How is it possible that MORTAL Man is created in the IMAGE of God who is a SPIRIT?

Like God every HUMAN SOUL [and only human souls] are gifted with a Mind, an Intellect and a Freewill; so man alone can rationalize; can sin, can know and obey God or choose not to.

That has to be the reality. And further, “God is love” — and “love cannot demand its own way”…

2 If GOD choose to override MAN’S Spiritual gifts [spiritual other self], than God would not be perfect for having given humanity a Gift that He then denied man the use of [Freewill].

That’s sound.

Hence “predestination” biblically ONLY means that our ALL-Knowing God was and is aware before hand what each HUMAN SOUL will choose for themselves for Eternity. PRE-KNOWLEDGE is NOT God deciding or God choosing who attain heaven or hell. He leaves that to every human soul to decide for themselves

If we read Romans 8 in context (RT’s often ignore verse 28), those WHO love God, are therefore (based on that love!) predestined to Christlikeness. Love is a choice, Jesus was “foreknown from the beginning” (1Pet1:20-21)…

They don’t believe in “total depravity” — but much farther, “total INABILITY”. Any thoughts to the contrary are met with charges of “PELAGIANISM” (or “Semi-Pelagianism” — that man has [some] inherent good and does not need God to draw him first. Not true, God draws all men

, and sufficient to overcome depravity so that each CAN enter in, or turn away. Goodness — Rom10:6-10, connecting with Deut30:11-20 (Rm10:6 cites Deut30:12, Rm10:8 cites Deut30:14) — completely destroys Calvinism, there is no defense!
Rom.10: 6 But the righteousness based on faith says, Do not say in your heart, “Who will ascend into heaven?” (that is, to bring Christ down)

Duet 30:12 "It is not in heaven, that you should say, `Who will go up for us to heaven, and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ "

Rom.10: 8 But what does it say? The word is near you, on your lips and in your heart (that is, the word of faith which we preach);

Duet 30:14 But the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it.

And that is a foundational refutation of “Monergism”, the very basis of Reformed Theology! The view that “God must reach down and GIVE it to a few, to make them hear it so they WILL obey it!”

Just the opposite of Scripture – it’s already in everyone’s heart and mouth, each must act on it or refuse! “I have set before you life and death — so CHOOSE LIFE by loving the Lord your God, by obeying His voice and walking in His statutes and by holding fast to Him. For this is your life and the length of your days!”

 

[James248]

My position on predestination can be summed up in one sentence: it is due to God one is saved, and it is due to only himself one is damned

 

[jcrichton]

Excellent, JCR! I have a paragraph in my book about “persuasion” (like Acts26:28-30, and Jn20:31) — but I did NOT have this verse! My citations were positive-persuasion; I will add this “negative persuasion”, parallel to Matt23:13-15 (and Rom14:15 & 1Cor8:11)…

Thank you!

What do they do with that? They say, "Oh those who get dissuaded were never REALLY entering in, they were not actually predestined!"

As if…
What about those in Jude23? Were they really in danger of fire, or not?

Hi, Gadgeteer!

…yeah, I’ve noticed that there are certain catch-terms that people apply when reasoning through Scriptures that do not support their theologies/arguments…

…I still have not decided if they are willfully usurping God’s Authority or if they are naïve enough to believe their own construct as being Inspired by the Holy Spirit…

I liken these to the government acceptance of “labels” on cigarettes and food products… the corporations and the government know that they are blocking the dam’s leak with a finger, but they merrily pronounce: ‘it’s safe!’

Believers, rather than making empty pronouncements, should seek to understand God’s Word from the Apostolic Teachings!

Have you ever heard the phrase, “EFFECTIVE MEANS”? Why does God need something outside of Himself,

to get done what He ordains?
…I think from the war/spy genre movies–as in total control/obliteration or complete subjugation…

…and why would God Ordain that those who “are not to be Saved” be Taught about the Salvation which they will never inherit?

Good citations, but only the tip of the iceberg. Do an word-search for “be diligent”, and “hold fast” — there are lots of these, and salvation is absolutely at risk. “BE DILIGENT not to be sluggish, but to imitate those WHO by faith and patience inherit the promises!” “Hold fast to what you have so that no one will steal your crown!”

That is 100% what Scripture says; although specific passages state we will be judged according to our deeds

(Rom2:6-9, Rev20:13), the only thing that condemns people is unbelief and the only thing that escapes anyone from the Lake of Fire is not being written in the Book.

…and entries in the Book, are also erasable, Ex32:32, Rev3:5!
…that is why it is important to hold to the entirety of Sacred Scriptures rather than exclusionary excerpts… it is interesting how Catholicism continues to make this evident… think of the term Theology of the Body–while it focuses on the human experience… it actually is the soundboard for how we are to view and understand Scriptures: the whole Body of Christ.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[PJM]

Well then, it shall remain a mystery. Honored to participate; as I am grateful for those who pray for me.

Well then, it shall remain a mystery. Honored to participate; as I am grateful for those who pray for me.

Not really understanding you here; in 1Jn5:10 they are condemned who have not believed the testimony God has given…]/QUOTE]

A great example of my intended message is Baptism. Surely GOD {ALL GOOD THINGS PERFECTED} cannot and would not condemn to eternal hell all of the worlds souls that HAD either no opportunity to be Baptized, or no understanding of that need through NOT their OWN negligence or fault. YET John 3:5 is precisely clear….Biblically speaking; “ALL” can and at tiles does mean “THE NORM.”

As you know not everything in the bible is not literal. Also with the possible ??] exception of John having lived the longest of the Apostles; the NT bible was not written specifically for future generations. They were commonly aimed directly to the audience they were then instructing.
.
I have often shared that EVERYTHING in the bible is TRUE; but not everything in the bible is factual. … meaning the intended Lesson is true, even if the example given is not to be applied in every case. S …. ALVATION is highly conditional; and hence God must make his final judgement based upon WHAT HE HAS MADE POSSIBLE FOR THAT SOUL TO KNOW AND ACCEPT, AND LIVE. …NOT on what that souls has freely and willingly chosen to know, live and accept.

As you know God HAS to be fair and just. So God then must make the final Judgement on what HE has made possible for each Soul to Know and accept. One cannot be found innocent with self- inflicted- ignorance; NOR can one be found guilty by involuntary ignorance.

My point (with passages like Acts17:26-31) is that God makes sure everyone can

Acts.17: 26 to 31 “And he made from one every nation of men to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their habitation, that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel after him and find him. Yet he is not far from each one of us, for In him we live and move and have our being'; as even some of your poets have said, For we are indeed his offspring.’ Being then God’s offspring, we ought not to think that the Deity is like gold, or silver, or stone, a representation by the art and imagination of man. The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all men everywhere to repent, because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and of this he has given assurance to all men by raising him from the dead."

Does every soul there truly have a REAL [freewill] opportunity to come to know God in the Christian understanding? I suspect not.

Zero “Reformed Theology”

Logically and morally Calvin was wrong here. Based on BOTH the Divine Nature of Jesus [GOD] and the Human nature GIFTED to man; which I addressed earlier.

I would hope the opposite; if each of us is driven to Scripture to make sure verses are quoted correctly, moved closer to God and the Spirit, and matured in our interaction with brothers and sisters, how can that be harmful?

There are at least 2 problems with this position
1 The Bible is often freely interpreted when it is being rewritten [new versions] so we see objectively a huge multiplicity of one’s PERSOANL subjective views imposed after 500 years. As ANY and ALL churches can ONLY be defined by their own freely chosen [all though this authority is anti-biblical 2 Peter 1: 19-21, while the RCC after 2,000 YEARS still professes the SAME One True Faith.
2 is that TRUTH can be nothing other than singular per defined issue. This can not logically or morally be overlooked.

Right — and in context, “kings and all authority”, clearly exceeding who could be “sovereign-elect”; it has to mean all-everyone.

CORRECT if amended to mean doing it GOD”S WAY: Period!

That’s why they invented “Compatibilism”, trying to insulate God from His necessary involvement in sin…

CORRECT

That has to be the reality. And further, “God is love” — and “love cannot demand its own way”…

Another TRUTH ignored

If we read Romans 8 in context (RT’s often ignore verse 28), those WHO love God, are therefore (based on that love!) predestined to Christlikeness. Love is a choice, Jesus was “foreknown from the beginning” (1Pet1:20-21)…

I earlier explained the impossibility of a common understanding of the term PREDESTINATION. It denies both God and humanity with the RIGHT to choose for themselves, a conditional salvation

I’m enjoying our discussion. God willing it will have a positive effect on other Souls as well my friend.

God Bless you,
Patrick

 

[PJM]

My position on predestination can be summed up in one sentence: it is due to God one is saved, and it is due to only himself one is damned

THANK YOU for pointing out that THIS IS “MY” [YOUR opinion]; it certainly cannot and IS NOT God’s or for that matter the bibles teaching. EXACTLY WHY this is I explained in an eariler POST on this STRING… I pray you will look it up.

God Bless you,

Patrick

 

[PJM]

My position on predestination can be summed up in one sentence: it is due to God one is saved, and it is due to only himself one is damned

WHY my friend do YOU suppose that Jesus [GOD] instituted Sacramental Confession

Mt 10:1-2; 1 John 1:6-7; 1 John 5: 16-17 and JOHN 20:19-23:shrug:

SURELY God HAD TO HAVE HAS A REASON for doing so

GBY

Patrick

 

[James248]

THANK YOU for pointing out that THIS IS “MY” [YOUR opinion]; it certainly cannot and IS NOT God’s or for that matter the bibles teaching. EXACTLY WHY this is I explained in an eariler POST on this STRING… I pray you will look it up.

God Bless you,

Patrick

Do you believe God is to blame for someone rejecting Him?

What I’m saying is this: God wants all to be saved, but God only saves those who trust in Him.

 

[James248]

PJM, read Romans 1.

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19** since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.**

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

 

[PJM]

Do you believe God is to blame for someone rejecting Him?

NO! Of course not

What I’m saying is this: God wants all to be saved, but God only saves those who trust in Him.

Dear friend, I would need a much detailed explanation of exactly what YOU mean by the term “Trust in Him” before I could accept your position.

GBY

Patick

 

[PJM]

GratefulFred:
Obtaining God’s Forgiveness

---

I have a non-Catholic friend (a former Catholic) who asserts that Christ died for our sins once and for all and thus there is no need to confess our sins to a Priest (also a sinner). Christ paid the price for our sins in His Passion, Crucifixion and Resurrection, and so there no need for time in Purgatory which is not mentioned in the Bible according to her.

How easy it is for one to gravitate [no doubt guided by Satan], to a church that accommodates ones’ personal wants and affirmation of their chosen life style.

She cites the Lord’s Prayer in Matthew Chapter 6 “forgive us our debt as we forgive our debtors”

It is certainly a very good thing that she knows the Lord’s Prayer.; though it would be better if she actually understood rightly the petition.

The actual meaning of the petition is that Christ [GOD] is teaching us that He will forgive each of us ONLY to the degree that we forgive all others.

“For if you will forgive men their offences, your heavenly Father will forgive you also your offences.” "But if you will not forgive men, neither will your Father forgive you your offences Mt. 6:14-15

She cites John 14: 13-14 “And whatever [forgiveness for example] you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask anything [forgiveness for example] of me in my name, I will do it.”

That is a convenient invention to make oneself feel good.

There is a GUIDE to right understanding of the bible

Never Ever; can, may or DOES
One verse, passage or teaching have the power or authority to
Invalidate, make void or override another Verse, passage or teaching:

Were this even the slightest possibility; [it’s NOT!] it would render the entire Bible useless to teach or learn Christ Faith”

2Peter 1: 19-21
Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation. For prophecy came not by the will of man at any time: but the holy men of God spoke, inspired by the Holy Ghost.

**[Douay Bible[/COLOR]

[20] No prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation: This shews plainly that the scriptures are not to be expounded by any one’s private judgment or private spirit, because every part of the holy scriptures were written by men inspired by the Holy Ghost, and declared as such by the Church; therefore they are not to be interpreted but by the Spirit of God End Quotes

2Tim.3:16 to 17 “All {NOT SOME} scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work”

Jn 20:19-23 is in the bible [even the KJB] because GOD wanted it there to serve HIS purposes.

As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. IF YOU forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; IF YOU retain the sins of any, they are retained."

TRY as we might, we are unable to dictate to God how HE WILL choose to forgive men’s sins. SACRAMENTAL Confession is GOD’S desired and instituted way.

She avoids discussing John 20: 21-23 - [Jesus] said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.”22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. 23 Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”

OF COURSE She does; how else can one hold such a pride filled position?

But I also read these passages:

Matthew 6: 15 But if you do not forgive others, neither will your Father forgive your transgressions.

Matthew 18: 15-17 “If your brother* sins [against you], go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother.16 If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that ‘every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector."

Matthew 18: 32-35 "His master summoned him and said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you your entire debt because you begged me to. Should you not have had pity on your fellow servant, as I had pity on you?’ Then in anger his master handed him over to the torturers until he should pay back the whole debt. So will my heavenly Father do to you, unless each of you forgives his brother from his heart.”?QUOTE]

Great comeback!

But know that conversions, and especially, conversion of fallen away Catholics is STRICTLY God’s domain. Pray very much for her.

**
Heb 6:4-8** For it is impossible {here means extremely unlikely unless} to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, {Gifted by Christ to be called to HIS RCC} who have tasted the heavenly gift,{Jesus /GOD Himself} and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, {been Confirmed in the Catholic Faith which creates a personal unbreakable personal Covenant between the Confirmed & God} and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, {Been INSTRUCTED rightly in GOD’s Truths}if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt. For land which has drunk the rain that often falls upon it, and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed; its end is to be burned. {Until and UNLESS repented and reconverted that soul IS HELL bound}

Pray very much
GBY, Patrick**

 

[PJM]

PJM, read Romans 1.

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19** since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.**

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

OK and what exactly is you’re point here. I see no contradiction with this and the positions I have already shared.

GBY

 

[James248]

NO! Of course not

Dear friend, I would need a much detailed explanation of exactly what YOU mean by the term “Trust in Him” before I could accept your position.

GBY

Patick

By trust in Him I mean believe in Him and do what He says.

 

[PJM]

Dear friend, I would need a much detailed explanation of exactly what YOU mean by the term “Trust in Him” before I could accept your position.

GBY

Patick

By trust in Him I mean believe in Him and do what He says.

THANK YOU

It was the DO AS HE SAY"S that I WAS WORRIED ABOUT

God Bless you

Patrick

 

[James248]

By trust in Him I mean believe in Him and do what He says.

THANK YOU

It was the DO AS HE SAY"S that I WAS WORRIED ABOUT

God Bless you

Patrick

“Eat My Body; drink My Blood. Love one another as I have loved you…” to name a few.