Occupy protests go from peace to "chaos"

[ComputerGeek25]

When it’s not a zero-sum game, sure. But at the moment, in the current situation, we are not, contrary to the many defenders of the wealth disparity on these boards, experienceing a soaring economy that just happens to be helping the rich more than it is the middle class or poor. We are experiencing a stagnant economy that, in spite of its stagnation, is yielding greater gains for the extremely wealthy.

Now, when the economy as a hole is not growing, or is growing at the slowest rate in past 20 or so years, and yet, very top few percent has increased its net worth at a faster pace than it was even before the crisis, then there is likely something other than jealosy. When Warren Buffet is doing better every day, while everyone else is struggling, that is probably what bothers people, especially people who are working no less hard than they were before.

Is it maybe guys like Buffet are smarter or work harder or a littler luckier (or all 3) than the rest of us?

 

[Raskolnikov]

That’s still 2 million dollars a year!!

12 million is not low, it is exactly the average pay of an American CEO.

We have over twice the population and over twice the GDP Japan has.

You wanted to make it out as if they work for chump change out of honor and pride for their country.

That our gdp is twice as much as theres is quite irrelevant, as the measure was I believe CEO income per capita. Our GDP per capita is about 1.4 times theirs.

I’m willing to bet, however, that our CEOs’ salaries are higher than those of Luxembourg, which has a higher per capita GDP than us.

 

[SamH]

When it’s not a zero-sum game, sure. But at the moment, in the current situation, we are not, contrary to the many defenders of the wealth disparity on these boards, ***experienceing a soaring economy ***that just happens to be helping the rich more than it is the middle class or poor. We are experiencing a stagnant economy that, in spite of its stagnation, is yielding greater gains for the extremely wealthy.

.

Are you in the US?

 

[Raskolnikov]

Is it maybe guys like Buffet are smarter or work harder or a littler luckier (or all 3) than the rest of us?

You’d have do ask Warren Buffet. Do you think wealthy people are working harder now than they were five years ago?

 

[Garyjohn2]

I’m going to bow out, thanks for listening to my views and sharing yours. However, I came up with an analogy that kind of sums up the way I feel and what I think the “Occupy” protests are about.

Pretend the world is a limited space, with finite resources and money, with a certain population of God’s created people on it for a limited amount of time. All these things are true, so that’s not hard to imagine.

So lets make it smaller so its easier to visualize. Lets say there’s a small island with 10 people on it who are stuck there for 1 week, and there are 100 coconuts scattered about the island. One person, either through smarts, speed, hard work, or luck manages to get 99 of the coconuts. What does that mean for the other 9 people? They share one coconut? Is this ok? What would God say if He came to the island?

Maybe I am extremely simple and childish, but this seems not ok. If one guy had 40 coconuts, the next 20, and the other 8 had 5 each, it seems not as bad… The other way seems sinful and wrong. Where do we draw the line? I dunno…but I guess a lot of people have had enough already.

I know no analogy is perfect, but that’s just how some people see it.

 

[SamH]

I’m willing to bet, however, that our CEOs’ salaries are higher than those of Luxembourg, which has a higher per capita GDP than us.

And Luxemburg is noted for being a powerhouse in what economic sense?

 

[scipio337]

I still find it ironic that those eeevil banks (some of which were forced to take the TARP funds) paid back a majority of the funds, costing taxpayers $25 Billion, while the $700+ Billion ARRA bailout for teacher unions and bankrupt states continues to be ignored.

 

[Raskolnikov]

Are you in the US?

Can you read?

"But at the moment, in the current situation, we are not, contrary to the many defenders of the wealth disparity on these boards, experienceing a soaring economy… "

 

[SamH]

Can you read?

"But at the moment, in the current situation, we are not, contrary to the many defenders of the wealth disparity on these boards, experienceing a soaring economy… "

And?

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

And Luxemburg is noted for being a powerhouse in what economic sense?

The only time anyone ever talks of the economic importance of the Grand Dutchy of Luxembourg is…

…er.rrrrrr…

…ummmmmm…

…ahhhhhh (I apologize for sounding like the President without his teleprompter)

…I give up.

 

[Raskolnikov]

And Luxemburg is noted for being a powerhouse in what economic sense?

Its citizens are wealthier than we are. Isn’t that the idea?

Does the word “per capita” mean anything to you? Do you think that India is a “powerhouse” while Luxembourg is not? Have you ever been to India? Ever been to Luxembourg? Who do you think is doing better?

 

[Garyjohn2]

How would there be more jobs? Wouldn’t there be fewer jobs?

Umm…I don’t think so.

Say Bank #1 makes 100 dollars in a year. They have 10 Employees and one boss. The Boss takes $50 and the other employees take $5 each.

Bank #2 makes the same money, but the boss only takes $20. The 10 employees take $5. Now there is $30 extra dollars, so they can hire 6 more people.

See? This lightens the load for all workers, the boss gets paid a lot, and they can support more salaries. The only downside is the boss doesn’t get SO much more than the rest.

 

[SamH]

I still find it ironic that those eeevil banks (some of which were forced to take the TARP funds) paid back a majority of the funds, costing taxpayers $25 Billion, while the $700+ Billion ARRA bailout for teacher unions and bankrupt states continues to be ignored.

Actually the biggest loss of TARP funds was a bailout of the auto unions - the rest pretty much took care business.

 

[SamH]

Umm…I don’t think so.

Say Bank #1 makes 100 dollars in a year. They have 10 Employees and one boss. The Boss takes $50 and the other employees take $5 each.

Bank #2 makes the same money, but the boss only takes $20. The 10 employees take $5. Now there is $30 extra dollars, so they can hire 6 more people.

See?

No.

What makes you think they’d hire more employees? Are they going to toss their computer system and go back to typing pools?

 

[estesbob]

Hmm…don’t know. Why should anyone care that others make less than them?

If someone does not see something wrong with that graph, I’m not sure about them.

It’s not just some people making more, it’s also some people making less. It’s also not just more or less, but how much more or less. I think it’s sick, personally.

Why care what anyone makes? Why care if there are poor people?

I dont see the problem-perhaps you can explain it to us. Why do you care how much more than you somebody else makes? How does not caring if some people earn more than me translate into not caring if there are poor people?

 

[bbarrick8383]

That our gdp is twice as much as theres is quite irrelevant, as the measure was I believe CEO income per capita. Our GDP per capita is about 1.4 times theirs.

According to google:

$14.58 Trillion in the US.

5.5 Trillion in Japan

I dunno about you, but my math tells me that 5.5 x 2 = 11

I do not believe it is as irrelevant as you would like to make it out to be. If we cut our GDP in half right now, what would happen?

I’m willing to bet, however, that our CEOs’ salaries are higher than those of Luxembourg, which has a higher per capita GDP than us.

We have companies that make their GDP in one year as well.

 

[bbarrick8383]

The only time anyone ever talks of the economic importance of the Grand Dutchy of Luxembourg is…

…er.rrrrrr…

…ummmmmm…

…ahhhhhh (I apologize for sounding like the President without his teleprompter)

…I give up.

It’s a sad argument isn’t it.

Buffett has that much money in his pocket.

 

[estesbob]

Well a real cap would be silly and unrealistic. The point I was trying to make is that if this hugely gross income level disparity didn’t exist (and it was a more “normal” income disparity) there would be more jobs and less poor people. That’s all.

And the answer is no.

How many US dollars are in circulation? I don’t know, but I know its certainly not infinite. That means that the more that some people have more, the more others will have less. Dollars wouldn’t start disappearing…they would end up in other people’s hands. Pretty straightforward to me.

National income is not static. If i work hard and make more money that in no ways means someone has to make less.

 

[Garyjohn2]

No.

What makes you think they’d hire more employees? Are they going to toss their computer system and go back to typing pools?

What else would they do with the money except re-invest it in the company?

What would you do?

 

[irishpatrick]

Well…I don’t think we need many more rich people. I think we need many less poor people instead.

What if (IF) we capped maximum salaries at 500k a year. CEOs, athletes, musicians, whoever. That is way more than enough to live a wealthy lifestyle and get all your rewards for hard work. Then all the profits would instead be re-invested in the company. Wouldn’t you be able to employ more people that way, and create many, many more jobs? Have much much fewer poor people would there be? I’m just playing with ideas here.

Its the sickening greed that has so many people so so poor, and so few so filthy rich. I don’t think its a good conscience that says “welp, its ok if they got rich morally.” Why not re-invest and create a dozen more jobs rather than buy a second mansion? Is this a moral decision? I don’t know, I’m just wondering.

If some people make $1 a day, and someone else makes $100,000 a year…well that’s life. It’s unfair, but it’s the way things go. If someone makes $1 a day and someone else makes $100,000,000 a year…I don’t know man…seems wrong. I don’t know about some of you guys…

I don’t get why this is ok. It’s like seeing some guy cram is face with food until he is stuffed, but still keep going, and there’s one of those malnourished poor kids sitting next to him. Yeah, the eating man got all his food fairly…but its still wrong. Don’t you think? Am I that crazy? Seems so simple.

First, in a free land, who are you to determine the maximum a person can earn? That is NOTY liberty, and if those freedoms can so easily be taken, then so can religious and all other freedoms.

Second, rich people are the ones providing the jobs by starting and expanding companies. The single largest base of jobs are small companies, mainly started by people who have some capital to spend. Take away the incentive to start and grow a company, and you take tens of millions of jobs away.

Third, we do not know how rich spend their money. They often put millions into charities that feed and clothe the poor, and into Churches and schools. They also provide jobs for all sorts of secondary functions (admin jobs, lawn care, etc.).

Fourth, freedom is an amazing gift and is much easier to throw away, than to keep.

Fifth, we live in a land of liberty, and in this land a person has the right to make their own way, according to their own desires, morals, ehtics, and faith.

LIBERTY! Read about the American Revolution–learn it, live it, feel it, then you will understand!

People today, who seemingly are ignorant of history, want equality of result for everyone, and they do not know what that will bring with it…read history and see.