Occupy protests go from peace to "chaos"

[Garyjohn2]

While Japan maintains a relatively low CEO-to-worker pay ratio, the average American CEO now earns 319 times as much as the average American worker. Conservatives often argue that the high level of compensation American executives receive is due to a high level of performance, but this often isn’t the case. For example, Japan-based Nintendo’s CEO Satoru Iwata, who runs the world’s most successful gaming company, received an annual salary last year of only $2.1 million. Meanwhile, U.S.-based Activision CEO Bobby Kotick, took in a $3.1 million salary and $40 million more in stock options, despite running a company with only a fraction of Nintendo’s earnings.

 

[irishpatrick]

Actually the biggest loss of TARP funds was a bailout of the auto unions - the rest pretty much took care business.

TARP was not used for the auto industry, they received a seperate bailout.

 

[Garyjohn2]

Irish, I respect your view. I know history fairly well, but I disagree with you.

 

[estesbob]

What else would they do with the money except re-invest it in the company?

What would you do?

Hire a Marketing firm to increase business so I could pay more to the president and the employees and hire additional employees to handle the increase in business.

Of course the Liberal solution would be to tax the bank so much it had to lay off half the employees who would then picket the Presidents house claiming he was greedy while praising the goverment which is paying them unemployment from the money they taxed the bank.

 

[bbarrick8383]

What else would they do with the money except re-invest it in the company?

What would you do?

Lets just cap it and give it to politicians, makes sense…they are so good with money they don’t even pass budgets anymore.

 

[estesbob]

While Japan maintains a relatively low CEO-to-worker pay ratio, the average American CEO now earns 319 times as much as the average American worker. Conservatives often argue that the high level of compensation American executives receive is due to a high level of performance, but this often isn’t the case. For example, Japan-based Nintendo’s CEO Satoru Iwata, who runs the world’s most successful gaming company, received an annual salary last year of only $2.1 million. Meanwhile, U.S.-based Activision CEO Bobby Kotick, took in a $3.1 million salary and $40 million more in stock options, despite running a company with only a fraction of Nintendo’s earnings.

Why does it matter?

 

[Ridgerunner]

Japanese businessmen find it disgraceful to be paid overwhelming high salaries. If a japanese CEO was paid hundred of millions a year and it was publicly discovered, it is likely he would quite literally commit suicide. Amazing, isn’t it? They see it as a terrible dishonor, and dishonest.

They just don’t get paid like their American counterparts. Do you see them leaving in droves? Why would Americans leave in droves then? Perhaps they value money a bit more than they should?

I think this is a cultural problem, like I said originally.

Perhaps they only find it disgraceful to be KNOWN to be paid overwhelmingly high salaries. Evidently, transparency is almost non-existent, and “apparent” salaries are thought to be only about 1/3 of the total compensation. But, if you can’t know, you can’t know.

In addition, top execs are paid on the basis of longevity rather than performance (except perhaps on the sly). So, at least to the extent of the “known” compensation, the drones hold the performers down.

But, one suspects, the lack of transparency is the big thing. Nobody but their own corporate insiders know what they make, and perhaps not very many of them.

 

[Raskolnikov]

And?

And… that’s it. That’s the point. The net worth of Americans declined during the years. The net worth of forbe’s 400 has nonetheless increased dramatically.

 

[irishpatrick]

Umm…I don’t think so.

Say Bank #1 makes 100 dollars in a year. They have 10 Employees and one boss. The Boss takes $50 and the other employees take $5 each.

Bank #2 makes the same money, but the boss only takes $20. The 10 employees take $5. Now there is $30 extra dollars, so they can hire 6 more people.

See? This lightens the load for all workers, the boss gets paid a lot, and they can support more salaries. The only downside is the boss doesn’t get SO much more than the rest.

First, it is his money and he can do what he wants with it–that is liberty.

Second, the boss/owner might very well take that extra money to make the bank larger and then higher more people (and he could not have done that if he did not have the extra money).

Third, no matter how much the boss/owner makes, the employees have jobs that would not be there if the boss/owner had not opened the business.

The problem with jobs today is not rich people, it is the government that will not make doing business easier and cheaper here in the USA. Couple that with the second highest corporate tax rate on the planet, and it is not hard to see why things are tight right now.

Let us also be realistic. Unemployment hovers around 9% most weeks. That is too high, but it is nowhere near as high as other nations. Most economists will tell you that once you reach 5% unemployment rates, that is basically full employment because there are only 3-5% of the people who do not want to work. Thatg means this nation is really only about four points above full employment–pretty darn good for a weak economy.

Cut the corporate taxes. Cut income taxes. Cut spending. And then, stand back and watch that rate drop to less than 5% in a 2-3 years!

 

[bbarrick8383]

While Japan maintains a relatively low CEO-to-worker pay ratio, the average American CEO now earns 319 times as much as the average American worker. Conservatives often argue that the high level of compensation American executives receive is due to a high level of performance, but this often isn’t the case. For example, Japan-based Nintendo’s CEO Satoru Iwata, who runs the world’s most successful gaming company, received an annual salary last year of only $2.1 million. Meanwhile, U.S.-based Activision CEO Bobby Kotick, took in a $3.1 million salary and $40 million more in stock options, despite running a company with only a fraction of Nintendo’s earnings.

Activision is a publisher owned by a French group, maybe you should go ask them. They are the ones who agreed to pay him that much.

 

[SamH]

What else would they do with the money except re-invest it in the company?

What would you do?

Reinvesting in the company does not mean hiring more people.

Personally and professionally many are holding onto that money so they can afford the next moronic decree to be handed down by Obama administration. That kind of investment means they may keep their doors open and keep all their employees working.

 

[bbarrick8383]

I hear it’s getting really bad in some places:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.ne...888249_159928490751426_428382_849277307_n.jpg

 

[SamH]

And… that’s it. That’s the point. The net worth of Americans declined during the years. The net worth of forbe’s 400 has nonetheless increased dramatically.

Sorry but you might want to correct you data. Instead of being down individual American’s net worth is up.

In this year’s first quarter, the total of all US mortgage loans fell below $10 trillion, after being above that level for about four years, the Fed reported. Family assets rose in value, as a fall in home prices was more than offset by gains in financial assets like stocks and mutual funds.

The net worth of all US households reached a total of $58 trillion, up about $1 trillion from the previous quarter. Essentially, American net worth is back to 2005 levels, but still below its 2007 peak of $64.2 trillion.

csmonitor.com/USA/2011/0609/Mortgage-debt-is-down-Americans-net-worth-up-but-analysts-call-gains-fragile

What happened in 2007… Oh yeah, the democrats took over congress…

 

[TheTrueCentrist]

I’m not a Tea Partier, though I know some and have seen films of their activities. There really is no comparing the Tea Party and this group. Tea Partiers, from what I have seen, are simply protesting the threat of higher taxes and more government. What I have seen and known of them they are sedate people who appear to be responsible citizens.

The OWS people, on the other hand, are just chaotic, disrespectful, some are violent, and none seem to have any sense of personal responsibility at all.

Now, what I can’t quite figure out is why this administration, through its allies, supports this OWS mess. Maybe it’s only to cause a confusion in peoples’ minds between the Tea Party and this bunch. Otherwise, I would think this administration would have some fear that people would identify the OWS with the administration and find both repugnant.

The methods of activism are fairly superficial and really only speaks to the demographics of the two groups. 40% of the tea party is older than 55 (only about 1 in five are under 35 years old.) Moreover, tea party protesters tend to have an above average bank account. In contrast, the OWS protestors are significantly younger and poorer. I don’t want to say that young and poor people are more violent, but I will say that they have more cause and ability to be violent.

Here is the comparison between the two groups, which I made on a more liberal forum:

The parallels between the groups is actually fairly striking. Both groups are opposed to big business’ inordinate influence on policy, but their solutions target different groups. The Tea Party believes that if we regulate government more strictly and reign in its excess, then government will become more responsive to the people. The Occupy Wall Street protestors believe that if we regulate business more strictly and reign in its excess, then government will become more responsive to the people.

I find the criticism levied by Chomsky against the Tea Party to apply equally well to the OWS movement. Chomsky said that the Tea Party represents a group of people with real grievances who have been promised crazy (but self-consistent) solutions. I believe OWS likewise has real grievances, but their solutions are as naive as the Tea Party’s are crazy.

 

[SamH]

And anyone that quotes Noam Chomsky has lost both their paddles and is drifting aimlessly through life.

 

[TheTrueCentrist]

And anyone that quotes Noam Chomsky has lost both their paddles and is drifting aimlessly through life.

Good thing I didn’t quote him then.

 

[bbarrick8383]

The methods of activism are fairly superficial and really only speaks to the demographics of the two groups. 40% of the tea party is older than 55 (only about 1 in five are under 35 years old.) Moreover, tea party protesters tend to have an above average bank account. In contrast, the OWS protestors are significantly younger and poorer. I don’t want to say that young and poor people are more violent, but I will say that they have more cause and ability to be violent.

Here is the comparison between the two groups, which I made on a more liberal forum:

That is interesting, especially considering I never saw anyone at a tea party holding up a sign bragging about how rich they were.

 

[irishpatrick]

REALITY CHECK TIME!

Are there some CEO’s making large sums? Yes!

Do most CEO’s make crazy large sums? NO!

The mean total CEO compensation of $363,000 in 2010 increased substantially from $302,000 in 2009. CEOs expect total compensation to increase in 2011 by approximately 5% to $379,000.

There are thousands of CEO’s, most make well under a million a year.

Of the top 400 companies, many do make eight figure salaries running multi-billion dollar companies. So, let’s say that of those 400, the CEO’s earn, on average, about $10,000,000 more each year than they should (in the view of salary setting liberals). Now, let us multiply 400 companies times $10,000,000, and we get a total over salaryage of $4,000,000,000. Now, let us divide that total amount by $100,000 for each well paid employee (salary and benefits) that the money might be used to hire, and we get 40,000 jobs.

So, this entire conversation comes down to saving 40,000 jobs by cutting major CEO salaries by an average of 10-million per year. While the people getting those jobs would be very happy, it would not even budge the unemployment number.

So, we would be willing to reduce our freedoms in order to NOT move the umemployment numbers at all!

Further, I assume the all sports players and hollywood wealthy will be hit with the same liberal hammer, right?

Where does the salary setting stop? Perhaps one day a person making 150k a year is considered to be making too much,. so half has to be taken to be given to someone else. How would people here feel if there wages were cut by 20%, 30%, 50%?

REALITY CHECK ENDED!

 

[Wolseley]

Its citizens are wealthier than we are. Isn’t that the idea?

Does the word “per capita” mean anything to you? Do you think that India is a “powerhouse” while Luxembourg is not? Have you ever been to India? Ever been to Luxembourg? Who do you think is doing better?

Good thing Luxembourg had the horrible mean old Americans protecting them from the Russians all those years so they could concentrate on getting wealthy, isn’t it?

People today, who seemingly are ignorant of history, want equality of result for everyone, and they do not know what that will bring with it…read history and see.

They’ve learned the lessons they were taught in school very well. America is evil, Christianity is evil, Western culture is evil, capitalism is evil.

(shrug) You and I know that’s all hogwash, but they’ve never been exposed to anything different through their entire lives. They’ve heard that same mantra in school, in newspapers, in magazines, in movies, from popular entertainers, from TV, literally everywhere. The leftist noise is virtually impossible to escape in this country. And as somebody said, when these people become aware that there are other, quite legitimate viewpoints out there, it comes as a profoundly experienced shock to them…in many cases, such a shock that they react angrily to it, as if you had insulted their religion or a member of their family. They don’t handle it well.

If nothing else, you can’t say that the public brain laundries don’t do a good job of indoctrination…

The methods of activism are fairly superficial and really only speaks to the demographics of the two groups. 40% of the tea party is older than 55 (only about 1 in five are under 35 years old.) Moreover, tea party protesters tend to have an above average bank account. In contrast, the OWS protestors are significantly younger and poorer. I don’t want to say that young and poor people are more violent, but I will say that they have more cause and ability to be violent.

In other words, the older Tea Party people worked hard to acquire what they have, while the younger OWS people simply want it all handed to them without having to earn it.

 

[irishpatrick]

Good thing Luxembourg had the horrible mean old Americans protecting them from the Russians all those years so they could concentrate on getting wealthy, isn’t it?

They’ve learned the lessons they were taught in school very well. America is evil, Christianity is evil, Western culture is evil, capitalism is evil.

(shrug) You and I know that’s all hogwash, but they’ve never been exposed to anything different through their entire lives. They’ve heard that same mantra in school, in newspapers, in magazines, in movies, from popular entertainers, from TV, literally everywhere. The leftist noise is virtually impossible to escape in this country. And as somebody said, when these people become aware that there are other, quite legitimate viewpoints out there, it comes as a profoundly experienced shock to them…in many cases, such a shock that they react angrily to it, as if you had insulted their religion or a member of their family. They don’t handle it well.

If nothing else, you can’t say that the public brain laundries don’t do a good job of indoctrination…

I said that…and yes you are 100% correct imo. Quite sad really.