H
homosapien15
Guest
I’d rather spend my tax dollars on the park upkeep, which is far cheaper, than the police presence and arrests everyday. Try thinking of it that way.
- Status
C
Captain_America
Guest
Objectively, both parties have failed to solve the problem of white collar corruption, crime and manipulation of capitalism. The Democrats, when recently in full power, could have done something, but crabwalked away.
I apologize if people are offended looking at college students. That’s what you’re going to find on a campus nowadays. But again, remember that the framing of the Occupy movement is a subtle art, and helps convey impressions that don’t tell the whole picture.
To be fair, those actually on site really DO not look like the regular Wal-Mart/Main Street public. These are taking place in cities. The people there are young. . . they are smart enough to read the paper and see the problem, but not yet settled down to work and family; I view their efforts, by and large, as a genuine gift to America.
INTERESTING that professional PR agencies have worked to color and skew our perceptions of the protesters. . . to be sure, though, the vast majority of supporters look just like you and me.
Again, I think you and I both can agree that unregulated economic power can cause horrible problems for sociey. . . even people distant from the decisionmaking. Look around you. It’s in your community. It’s in mine. This **** came from crony capitalism, emaciated government regulators, lack of sensible regulations, and bought politicians.
I see occupy and tea partiers as have much, much more common ground and common concerns—a corrupt political system, an economic system intentionally designed to serve the international elites/majority owners of America. Over the past 20 years, bills in Congress in which a class distinction can be seen. . . 100% have benefited the wealthy!
Read the good book, Pinched, by Don Peck, of the Atlantic magazine.
I apologize if people are offended looking at college students. That’s what you’re going to find on a campus nowadays. But again, remember that the framing of the Occupy movement is a subtle art, and helps convey impressions that don’t tell the whole picture.
To be fair, those actually on site really DO not look like the regular Wal-Mart/Main Street public. These are taking place in cities. The people there are young. . . they are smart enough to read the paper and see the problem, but not yet settled down to work and family; I view their efforts, by and large, as a genuine gift to America.
INTERESTING that professional PR agencies have worked to color and skew our perceptions of the protesters. . . to be sure, though, the vast majority of supporters look just like you and me.
Again, I think you and I both can agree that unregulated economic power can cause horrible problems for sociey. . . even people distant from the decisionmaking. Look around you. It’s in your community. It’s in mine. This **** came from crony capitalism, emaciated government regulators, lack of sensible regulations, and bought politicians.
I see occupy and tea partiers as have much, much more common ground and common concerns—a corrupt political system, an economic system intentionally designed to serve the international elites/majority owners of America. Over the past 20 years, bills in Congress in which a class distinction can be seen. . . 100% have benefited the wealthy!
Read the good book, Pinched, by Don Peck, of the Atlantic magazine.
S
Studer
Guest
Hey,
This is my first post in this Forum.
I am from Western Europe where eduction is mostly free. (not in England I think) I studied for 2 bachelors and I am on my way to do an master in a top 20 business school.
I have free health insurance and can go to the dentist or doctor for free.
The public transportation system is very cheap for students too.
I don’t now anyone who has debts here or has to payback money to the state because of the university. (they have debts because the buy the latest gadget from Apple maybe)
THE REASON of the my post is that people on this thread should stop thinking that the USA is the only viable country in the world and that no other system can exist. I personally like the USA, I lived in Orange County for 3months and in NYC, but wouldn’t never go to school there, because it is so expensive.
Also the concept of having better/elite colleges than others not really exists here, nobody cares if you have been to Berlin or Vienna or Geneva. In England or France they have elite colleges but not in Germany, Austria, Spain, Switzerland, etc…
Also the political parties here are much more compatible with the Church’s social doctrines. We have so called “Christian Democratic” parties who are in most countries here in the middle of the political spectrum. (in the US they would be on the left of the democrats I guess) And most of the countries here aren’t communist hell holes or whatever Fox News tells you. I mean maybe the government is too big here, but at least the younger people aren’t slaves to the creditors.
I don’t think that the Occupy Wall Street movement is productive what so ever, but on the other side I think the middle class in the US is really getting beaten down by the upper class. This is also the case in Europe, more and more so.
Have a good day,
Studer
This is my first post in this Forum.
I am from Western Europe where eduction is mostly free. (not in England I think) I studied for 2 bachelors and I am on my way to do an master in a top 20 business school.
I have free health insurance and can go to the dentist or doctor for free.
The public transportation system is very cheap for students too.
I don’t now anyone who has debts here or has to payback money to the state because of the university. (they have debts because the buy the latest gadget from Apple maybe)
THE REASON of the my post is that people on this thread should stop thinking that the USA is the only viable country in the world and that no other system can exist. I personally like the USA, I lived in Orange County for 3months and in NYC, but wouldn’t never go to school there, because it is so expensive.
Also the concept of having better/elite colleges than others not really exists here, nobody cares if you have been to Berlin or Vienna or Geneva. In England or France they have elite colleges but not in Germany, Austria, Spain, Switzerland, etc…
Also the political parties here are much more compatible with the Church’s social doctrines. We have so called “Christian Democratic” parties who are in most countries here in the middle of the political spectrum. (in the US they would be on the left of the democrats I guess) And most of the countries here aren’t communist hell holes or whatever Fox News tells you. I mean maybe the government is too big here, but at least the younger people aren’t slaves to the creditors.
I don’t think that the Occupy Wall Street movement is productive what so ever, but on the other side I think the middle class in the US is really getting beaten down by the upper class. This is also the case in Europe, more and more so.
Have a good day,
Studer
I
insideitall
Guest
I have several problems with these protesters.
first, the underlying concept is jealousy. these are people who resent the fact that others have more money than they do. they are unable to accept that life is not fair and that they need to make the best of their own situation.
second, they are extremely hypocritical. they love people with money as long as they’re democrats.
third, they’re completely ignorant of the law. the right to assemble and speak freely and protest is guaranteed only when it’s peaceful. these protests are not peaceful. people get in the way of traffic. they verbally and physically harass adults on their way to work and kids trying to get to school. they vandalize wherever they squat by littering, destroying property, and contaminating the area with waste products that belong in a toilet. peacefully protesting does not give you the right to break whatever laws you want, and when you cross that line your ***** needs to be pepper sprayed and thrown in jail.
fourth, they’re completely ignorant of basic economics. socialism will make everyone equal, but it’ll make everyone equally poor. they constantly extol pretty much anything that european governments do, and throw around the word “free” like it’s going out of style. where, exactly, do they think those governments get the money to make those programs available? hint: starts with “higher” and ends with “taxes for everyone.” the more government handouts, the less personal accountability.
fifth, they’re completely lacking in common sense. no one stops to ask what financial decisions people made that caused them to become poor in the first place, or the decisions that poor people make that cause them to remain poor. they want to be paid more but also want the cost of products to remain low. also, for some reason they think that their college diploma also comes with the guarantee of a job, level of belief directly proportional to the bs factor of their major.
ugh, ugh, ugh.
first, the underlying concept is jealousy. these are people who resent the fact that others have more money than they do. they are unable to accept that life is not fair and that they need to make the best of their own situation.
second, they are extremely hypocritical. they love people with money as long as they’re democrats.
third, they’re completely ignorant of the law. the right to assemble and speak freely and protest is guaranteed only when it’s peaceful. these protests are not peaceful. people get in the way of traffic. they verbally and physically harass adults on their way to work and kids trying to get to school. they vandalize wherever they squat by littering, destroying property, and contaminating the area with waste products that belong in a toilet. peacefully protesting does not give you the right to break whatever laws you want, and when you cross that line your ***** needs to be pepper sprayed and thrown in jail.
fourth, they’re completely ignorant of basic economics. socialism will make everyone equal, but it’ll make everyone equally poor. they constantly extol pretty much anything that european governments do, and throw around the word “free” like it’s going out of style. where, exactly, do they think those governments get the money to make those programs available? hint: starts with “higher” and ends with “taxes for everyone.” the more government handouts, the less personal accountability.
fifth, they’re completely lacking in common sense. no one stops to ask what financial decisions people made that caused them to become poor in the first place, or the decisions that poor people make that cause them to remain poor. they want to be paid more but also want the cost of products to remain low. also, for some reason they think that their college diploma also comes with the guarantee of a job, level of belief directly proportional to the bs factor of their major.
ugh, ugh, ugh.
I
insideitall
Guest
hi studer, and welcome.
your post is a great example of the “look at all the free stuff” rhetoric I mentioned in my post. your education is free because you have higher taxes. your healthcare is free because you have higher taxes. and because the government provides doctors and educators a paycheck, there is no incentive to do a better job than the next guy if you’re both going to get paid the same. this is exactly the problem with labor unions in the usa.
as far as debts go, you shouldn’t buy what you can’t afford. if that means not going to college because you can’t afford it, so be it. when enough people stop ruining their lives by taking out hundred thousand dollar loans, the price of higher education will go down.
the usa is the only viable option for capitalism. if you’re the type of person who wants to be coddled by your government, drag the entire society down to the same level and stifle innovation, socialism and socialist tendencies work perfectly. it’s all about what your goal is.
as far as church doctrine goes, that is not the government’s business. as christians, people have a personal obligation to help the poor. it is NOT the obligation of the government when the government is secular.
I hope this helps to explain some things for you.
your post is a great example of the “look at all the free stuff” rhetoric I mentioned in my post. your education is free because you have higher taxes. your healthcare is free because you have higher taxes. and because the government provides doctors and educators a paycheck, there is no incentive to do a better job than the next guy if you’re both going to get paid the same. this is exactly the problem with labor unions in the usa.
as far as debts go, you shouldn’t buy what you can’t afford. if that means not going to college because you can’t afford it, so be it. when enough people stop ruining their lives by taking out hundred thousand dollar loans, the price of higher education will go down.
the usa is the only viable option for capitalism. if you’re the type of person who wants to be coddled by your government, drag the entire society down to the same level and stifle innovation, socialism and socialist tendencies work perfectly. it’s all about what your goal is.
as far as church doctrine goes, that is not the government’s business. as christians, people have a personal obligation to help the poor. it is NOT the obligation of the government when the government is secular.
I hope this helps to explain some things for you.
T
theswan
Guest
My prayers are with OWS and I support their cause.
I was dismayed at gen X because they had no ideals-Now that they have given voice, I applaud their actions.
Lets face it, there are a lot of right wingers here who will dissect each little thing to put down this uprising but deep inside we must see this country is way lopsided against the poor and for the rich.
I for instance wrote to my senator about perhaps a little tax on Wall street-She wrote back 'The they’ll move to oversea’s markets" I thought Hmmm maybe and shot themselves in the foot in doing so?
I today read she is number 3 in $$ from Wall street-Bought and paid for-How do we poor get a voice if senate and congress is paid for?
Go OWS
Glen
I was dismayed at gen X because they had no ideals-Now that they have given voice, I applaud their actions.
Lets face it, there are a lot of right wingers here who will dissect each little thing to put down this uprising but deep inside we must see this country is way lopsided against the poor and for the rich.
I for instance wrote to my senator about perhaps a little tax on Wall street-She wrote back 'The they’ll move to oversea’s markets" I thought Hmmm maybe and shot themselves in the foot in doing so?
I today read she is number 3 in $$ from Wall street-Bought and paid for-How do we poor get a voice if senate and congress is paid for?
Go OWS
Glen
I
insideitall
Guest
theswan, what exactly do you mean when you say “biased towards the rich?” are you just upset that some people make more than others, and that as a result there are classes? how would you propose making classes non-existent? people still have the choice as to what they do with their money, which is why you end up with people who make six figures in debt up to their eyeballs and people making 40k with a significant savings account. you would have to remove all free choice and forbid frugality and saving - last time I checked, that was definitely not capitalism.
do you - or anyone who shares this point of view - realize that 50% of americans don’t pay federal taxes? and 30% actually make money from filing?
we also need to examine the definition of “poor.” according to the census bureau, and various government docs, over 40% of these people own their own home. the average size of these “poor” homes is a 3br, 1.5bath, garage + porch/patio. 60% have cable/satellite. they make enough money for tv but not to pay taxes??
do you - or anyone who shares this point of view - realize that 50% of americans don’t pay federal taxes? and 30% actually make money from filing?
we also need to examine the definition of “poor.” according to the census bureau, and various government docs, over 40% of these people own their own home. the average size of these “poor” homes is a 3br, 1.5bath, garage + porch/patio. 60% have cable/satellite. they make enough money for tv but not to pay taxes??
J
JimG
Guest
Nothing is actually free. Somebody pays. Whether in the U.S. or in Europe.
Somebody pays the doctors and the hospitals and the pharmacists for free medical care. Somebody pays to buy the MRI and CAT scanners. Somebody pays for the drugs. Somebody pays to develop them.
Somebody pays the teachers and the administrators and the janitors at the universities, even for a free education.
Somebody pays for unemployment benefits and all sorts of public support programs.
It is of course, taxpayers who pay. But sometimes taxpayers don’t pay enough to cover everything that is spent, and for that difference the government must borrow. And if it can’t pay it back and has no reasonable expectation of being able to do so, then a sovereign debt crisis ensues.
When a government has to abruptly start living within its means, people don’t get everything to which they think they are entitled. And then we have riots and protests, as in Greece or Italy, or OWS.
Somebody pays the doctors and the hospitals and the pharmacists for free medical care. Somebody pays to buy the MRI and CAT scanners. Somebody pays for the drugs. Somebody pays to develop them.
Somebody pays the teachers and the administrators and the janitors at the universities, even for a free education.
Somebody pays for unemployment benefits and all sorts of public support programs.
It is of course, taxpayers who pay. But sometimes taxpayers don’t pay enough to cover everything that is spent, and for that difference the government must borrow. And if it can’t pay it back and has no reasonable expectation of being able to do so, then a sovereign debt crisis ensues.
When a government has to abruptly start living within its means, people don’t get everything to which they think they are entitled. And then we have riots and protests, as in Greece or Italy, or OWS.
T
theswan
Guest
Hi insider!
Well as far as biased by the rich hmmm do ta really have to ask. “He who pays the piper calls the tune” Wealthy are able to lobby for tax loopholes we are not.
I love America and the freedom to voice whatever it is we choose. We had a voice in my generation and it helped end an unjust war.
We have an unjust society because congress is paid off-do you not see this? Of course life is unfair that is why we struggled and shed blood to have unions and a collective voice-We are losing that even! Koch brothers are union busting with the gleeful help of the republicans.
My goodness wake up our only chance is a collective voice but some are so brainwashed they believe any protest is “commie scum”
We are on a Catholic forum and i see words like 'ugg" We should try and understand the movement rather then ugg!
We have envy of the rich? My how that turns the facts around. What i often see is envy of the poor who get handouts of welfare and live it up on our tax dollars ( yeah on $353 a month)
Fight the good fight be on the side of the poor rather then defend those that got!
Stop listening to Rush and Sean and listen to truth! NPR is a start
Glen
Well as far as biased by the rich hmmm do ta really have to ask. “He who pays the piper calls the tune” Wealthy are able to lobby for tax loopholes we are not.
I love America and the freedom to voice whatever it is we choose. We had a voice in my generation and it helped end an unjust war.
We have an unjust society because congress is paid off-do you not see this? Of course life is unfair that is why we struggled and shed blood to have unions and a collective voice-We are losing that even! Koch brothers are union busting with the gleeful help of the republicans.
My goodness wake up our only chance is a collective voice but some are so brainwashed they believe any protest is “commie scum”
We are on a Catholic forum and i see words like 'ugg" We should try and understand the movement rather then ugg!
We have envy of the rich? My how that turns the facts around. What i often see is envy of the poor who get handouts of welfare and live it up on our tax dollars ( yeah on $353 a month)
Fight the good fight be on the side of the poor rather then defend those that got!
Stop listening to Rush and Sean and listen to truth! NPR is a start
Glen
T
theswan
Guest
Stop with the stats is does not prove a thing.
You use and average to suggest we have no poor when one in five kids go hungry!
Stop the envy of the poor getting federal handouts
You use and average to suggest we have no poor when one in five kids go hungry!
Stop the envy of the poor getting federal handouts
N
Nate13
Guest
There is a difference between going to bed hungry and starving… Also a lot of that is cause of inept parenting. The resources to feed children were there, they were just wasted. Its amazing how people aren’t so worried about spending their welfare checks as wisely as if they had earned the money themselves isn’t it? Actually its incredibly predicable that someone else would have no trouble at all spending your money unwisely.
This has nothing to do with envy of the poor, and everything to do with actually trying to help them. Its easy to throw cash at them and then ignore them. Currently the government throws cash at the poor and then your local charities are the ones who end up cleaning up the mess and actually dealing with the real problems these people are battling. All I want is true charity, not just charity that makes me feel good inside that I’ve done something.
@Studer
“I mean maybe the government is too big here, but at least the younger people aren’t slaves to the creditors.”
Your right they are then slaves to the government, who are also the ones who are supposed to be protecting them from being taken advantage of…wait that’s kind of handy. The government provides all the services and is also in charge of overseeing itself…that sounds like a great system of checks and balances.
I
insideitall
Guest
yes, you are correct that many of our representatives are bought off by people with money. my issue with the protesters is that they only throw a fit when it’s used for something they don’t agree with. in general, it tends to be split along dem/repub lines - if rich people are democrats, it’s perfectly fine, because the money goes to buying off representatives to pass social welfare programs and restrictive laws on business. the problem only exists in their minds when the rich people are republicans and throw their money towards stopping those things.
you are also correct about the tax loopholes. it’s disgusting - but again, my issue is that the protesters are only concerned with the rich people who vote republican. in a discussion recently a friend tried arguing that all the rich people should sell their big houses/fancy cars and give the money to the poor, but started making excuses when I suggested individuals (like michael moore, with his multimillion dollar house, whom she idolizes) that happened to be very vocal democrats.
I noticed you told me to stop using statistics and then used one yourself, and incorrectly to boot. 1 in 5 children aren’t hungry - they’re at risk for being hungry at some point during the year. completely different! and again, no one stops to ask these families where their income is going during the “good” weeks. the social welfare programs in this country absolutely do not encourage people to save their money, nor do the tax laws.
real life example was with the car companies/banks that were folding. democrats were super upset that there was bailout money flying around, and they were correct to feel that way. those companies made bad business decisions and instead of being forced to deal with the consequences were rescued. this is exactly the same as individual families making bad choices with their money and receiving government assistance, either in the present with things like food stamps or in the future with things like medicare.
you don’t see that taking money from some people and giving it to others is theft? our tax code legalizes thievery. I’m not envious when someone steals from me because it was mine to begin with! the top 1% - the ones these protesters hate - pay 40% of the taxes. the top 10% pay nearly 70%! and the bottom 50%… wait for it… doesn’t pay anything. how, exactly, are the poor screwed by taxes when they don’t actually pay any?
the main issue here is ideological. you think the government should rescue people, and i think people should be responsible for themselves. makes compromise rather difficult, no?
you are also correct about the tax loopholes. it’s disgusting - but again, my issue is that the protesters are only concerned with the rich people who vote republican. in a discussion recently a friend tried arguing that all the rich people should sell their big houses/fancy cars and give the money to the poor, but started making excuses when I suggested individuals (like michael moore, with his multimillion dollar house, whom she idolizes) that happened to be very vocal democrats.
I noticed you told me to stop using statistics and then used one yourself, and incorrectly to boot. 1 in 5 children aren’t hungry - they’re at risk for being hungry at some point during the year. completely different! and again, no one stops to ask these families where their income is going during the “good” weeks. the social welfare programs in this country absolutely do not encourage people to save their money, nor do the tax laws.
real life example was with the car companies/banks that were folding. democrats were super upset that there was bailout money flying around, and they were correct to feel that way. those companies made bad business decisions and instead of being forced to deal with the consequences were rescued. this is exactly the same as individual families making bad choices with their money and receiving government assistance, either in the present with things like food stamps or in the future with things like medicare.
you don’t see that taking money from some people and giving it to others is theft? our tax code legalizes thievery. I’m not envious when someone steals from me because it was mine to begin with! the top 1% - the ones these protesters hate - pay 40% of the taxes. the top 10% pay nearly 70%! and the bottom 50%… wait for it… doesn’t pay anything. how, exactly, are the poor screwed by taxes when they don’t actually pay any?
the main issue here is ideological. you think the government should rescue people, and i think people should be responsible for themselves. makes compromise rather difficult, no?
S
Studer
Guest
@insideitall
Sweden, Norway, Liechtenstein, Luxemburg, Switzerland, Denmark all have better quality of living and free health care, free university access AND are very high on the economical development index. Switzerland and Liechtenstein and Luxemburg are more open markets than the US in a lot of things.
How is that possible from your point of view?
Also I have no problem of paying more taxes to help the poor and the government. Why is that bad? Government is corrupt but so is Big Business my friend. Power always is, but at least the public has “some” influence over government, not over Big Business.
Keep in mind, I am no socialist, not at all, but I see in my country (Switzerland and Austria) that you can have the best of both worlds, despite what the powerful might say! And I like the US I promise you!
Peace!
Sweden, Norway, Liechtenstein, Luxemburg, Switzerland, Denmark all have better quality of living and free health care, free university access AND are very high on the economical development index. Switzerland and Liechtenstein and Luxemburg are more open markets than the US in a lot of things.
How is that possible from your point of view?
Also I have no problem of paying more taxes to help the poor and the government. Why is that bad? Government is corrupt but so is Big Business my friend. Power always is, but at least the public has “some” influence over government, not over Big Business.
Keep in mind, I am no socialist, not at all, but I see in my country (Switzerland and Austria) that you can have the best of both worlds, despite what the powerful might say! And I like the US I promise you!
Peace!
E
estesbob
Guest
How long did you live in the US ?
S
Studer
Guest
@estesbob
Hey,
Why that question? I I lived in the States 5 years ago for half a year to learn English. First in Honolulu for 2 months and then in Dana point, Orange County, California. I wasn’t 21 back then and I couldn’t even enter the bars. Very young
I don’t pretend to know the US I am just saying that there are other countries in the world who are working quite well. A lot of people seem to forget that! Am I the only person here who thinks so?
Hey,
Why that question? I I lived in the States 5 years ago for half a year to learn English. First in Honolulu for 2 months and then in Dana point, Orange County, California. I wasn’t 21 back then and I couldn’t even enter the bars. Very young
I don’t pretend to know the US I am just saying that there are other countries in the world who are working quite well. A lot of people seem to forget that! Am I the only person here who thinks so?
E
estesbob
Guest
I wouldn’t know but I like it here sitting on the beach as we talk , back in the Mtns Sunday@estesbob
Hey,
Why that question? I I lived in the States 5 years ago for half a year to learn English. First in Honolulu for 2 months and then in Dana point, Orange County, California. I wasn’t 21 back then and I couldn’t even enter the bars. Very young
J
Jonatello
Guest
i confess i stopped reading here.
i probably shouldn’t have, but i had to respond and if your perspective is built on that premise, i can’t imagine anything else accurate growing from it.
To honestly believe its about jealousy would mean you haven’t even tried to listen. I beg you to reconsider that assessment, because it is not about jealousy, and to say so is unfairly dismissive.
They’re not protesting everyone who’s richer or more successful than them. There are also in fact some very rich people among them.
I
insideitall
Guest
better quality of life as defined by whom? in america there is more choice and goods are cheaper. and again, those programs are not free. taxes are ridiculously higher in europe.
take a look at this graph (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Income_Taxes_By_Country.svg).
the mean personal tax rate of the us is under 30% and a mean business tax rate of under 40%. meanwhile, in italy, austria, sweeden, hungary, france, germany, and belgium, the mean personal tax rate is between 45-55% and the mean business tax rate ranges from 15-35%.
again, in the us, individuals are taxed at a much lower rate than corporations are. by contrast, in europe it’s exactly the opposite! let’s play a game: ask a liberal if they would like america to have economies like europe’s, adjusting our tax rates to meet theirs and being able to have the same “free” programs. watch them squeal with excitement. then tell them that their income tax would jump over 15%, while tax on businesses would decrease by 15%. see what happens. conclusion: liberals want to have their cake (low taxes) and eat it too (lots of social programs), and for some reason think that it’s actually possible.
jonatello, I appreciate you being honest enough to tell me you didn’t bother reading. I respectfully disagree, though. like I pointed out before, it’s a completely different ideology. a completely different worldview. some people think the government exists to save them from themselves and refuse to take control of their lives. no job? get unemployment. don’t save during the working years? get social security. and when the money isn’t enough to live at whatever standard they’ve set for themselves, they complain that they deserve more, that there are people with more money who should be paying more taxes in order to fund the programs they rely on. keeping people dependent on the government was the best thing the democrat party could ever have done to keep their voter base constant. why bother working hard and sacrificing and accepting that sometimes life sucks when the government hands money out like there’s no tomorrow?
maybe some people don’t realize it’s jealousy, but that’s exactly what it is. they don’t see their life as a result of the choices they’ve made, but as a result of what others have done to them. by constantly playing victim they absolve themselves of the need to better themselves by their own power. their situation is, and always will be, someone else’s fault, and therefore it’s only fair that the government punish the people they perceive as the oppressors (in this case by higher taxes). it’s basic human nature to make excuses for oneself, but that doesn’t make it right.
take a look at this graph (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Income_Taxes_By_Country.svg).
the mean personal tax rate of the us is under 30% and a mean business tax rate of under 40%. meanwhile, in italy, austria, sweeden, hungary, france, germany, and belgium, the mean personal tax rate is between 45-55% and the mean business tax rate ranges from 15-35%.
again, in the us, individuals are taxed at a much lower rate than corporations are. by contrast, in europe it’s exactly the opposite! let’s play a game: ask a liberal if they would like america to have economies like europe’s, adjusting our tax rates to meet theirs and being able to have the same “free” programs. watch them squeal with excitement. then tell them that their income tax would jump over 15%, while tax on businesses would decrease by 15%. see what happens. conclusion: liberals want to have their cake (low taxes) and eat it too (lots of social programs), and for some reason think that it’s actually possible.
jonatello, I appreciate you being honest enough to tell me you didn’t bother reading. I respectfully disagree, though. like I pointed out before, it’s a completely different ideology. a completely different worldview. some people think the government exists to save them from themselves and refuse to take control of their lives. no job? get unemployment. don’t save during the working years? get social security. and when the money isn’t enough to live at whatever standard they’ve set for themselves, they complain that they deserve more, that there are people with more money who should be paying more taxes in order to fund the programs they rely on. keeping people dependent on the government was the best thing the democrat party could ever have done to keep their voter base constant. why bother working hard and sacrificing and accepting that sometimes life sucks when the government hands money out like there’s no tomorrow?
maybe some people don’t realize it’s jealousy, but that’s exactly what it is. they don’t see their life as a result of the choices they’ve made, but as a result of what others have done to them. by constantly playing victim they absolve themselves of the need to better themselves by their own power. their situation is, and always will be, someone else’s fault, and therefore it’s only fair that the government punish the people they perceive as the oppressors (in this case by higher taxes). it’s basic human nature to make excuses for oneself, but that doesn’t make it right.
T
TheRealJuliane
Guest
If I haven’t posted this link here, then I am posting it now. A response to the “99%” who are squatting in public and private places complaining about their lives.
The 53% refers to the 53% of American people who are WORKING v. the 47% that are not paying income tax. I have found the stories incredibly inspiring, and representative of the America I know is still here.
Regardless of what the press says.
I am the 53%
The 53% refers to the 53% of American people who are WORKING v. the 47% that are not paying income tax. I have found the stories incredibly inspiring, and representative of the America I know is still here.
Regardless of what the press says.
I am the 53%
J
Jonatello
Guest
aka the 53 (and falling) percent of Americans LEFT with jobs, for now, as the line outside grows, forcing them to be taken advantage of and worked harder for the same pay.
The white indentured servants of slavery times, slightly favored by their masters to keep their frustrations pointed toward the Africans below them.
Rob, Marcus, and Paul are given 21 slices of pizza.
Rob takes 20, gives Paul the other 1 and says “Watch out for Marcus. He wants our food”
- Status