OCP's New Order of Mass Musical Revisions

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Phemie said:
At least your parish choir doesn’t insist on singing the Gloria from Landry’s “Young People’s Mass”

Refrain:

We praise you, we bless you, we give you thanks.
We praise you for your glory.
We praise you, we bless you, we worship you,
O Lord, our God.

Verse 2
Lord Jesus Christ,
only Son of God!
You are one with the Father.
Receive our prayer.
No “Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world”, in fact, no ‘sin’, no ‘mercy’.
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:eek: That’s ugly. How does this stuff get passed to be published??
 
Cavaille-Coll said:
I find that of all the parts of the Mass of Cremation I dislike most, the Lamb of God has the most banal, nonsensical melody. How did Mr. Haugen ever expect the average parishioner, who doesn’t read music, to sing “you take away the sins of the world” correctly. That is one big gripe I have with OCP: most of their contemporary songs are intended as solo pieces, not as congregational hymns. They are simply too syncopated for non-musicians to follow (and often difficult for trained musicians too!).
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The five churches I’ve used it in (and several others I’ve heard) had a congregation of several age groups that had absolutely no problem singing the Lamb of God.
 
pianomany2k said:
The five churches I’ve used it in (and several others I’ve heard) had a congregation of several age groups that had absolutely no problem singing the Lamb of God.
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That’s actually interesting and I mean that sincerely with no sarcasm. Your area must be special. I say that because I’ve probably worked in about 30-40 different churches in 6 different states as a freelance musician and at almost every one where they used the Mass of Creation, I’ve either heard people near me crack or just skip singing that part in the Agnus Dei all together. The same with parishes where I’ve attended as a visitor.

I’m wondering… perhaps because I’m a trained singer, my ears automatically zones into things like that. Just like with other instrumentalists we tend to hear things that seem so blatent to us because of our training. But someone who isn’t trained with something like that wouldn’t pick up on it and wouldn’t sound blatent at all. I remember as a new voice student not hearing the problems in a person’s voice or technique that more experienced singers would hear. It’s also funny when I’m with my friends who play other instruments and they immediately pick up the flaws or beauty of the person they are hearing, and unless the musician is bad, I wouldn’t pick up on some of the problems they were hearing.
 
I think it has to do with how the congregation was taught. And that goes for the entire Mass Setting. In the Gloria, for example, the entire congregation sings the verses. Drives me up a wall. I’ve tried countless times to get them to stop, and they just won’t. And that goes for the Gloria in the Mass of Light as well.

The Celtic Alleluia is another one that they used to sing right away with the cantor, not waiting for the repeat. That stopped after about a month (when they could barely hear the melody the first time because I closed the Swell box).

And finally, the Agnus Dei. Apparently, they used to sing “Jesus Lamb of God” three times and be done with it. Well, I changed that one right away, and they stopped singing the first line. Especially when you have a priest that takes a long time to break the bread, and requires at least five verses. I can remember the first time he came here, I literally exhausted the verses that are written. But, I was using the Mass of Light at that time.

I’ve been in this parish for a year and a half, and I’m slowly getting them to do things “correctly.” And now going to confuse the heck out of them with the new missal when it comes out. Ugh… I have four workshops this summer to attend to learn more about it.
 
pianomany2k said:
I think it has to do with how the congregation was taught. And that goes for the entire Mass Setting. In the Gloria, for example, the entire congregation sings the verses. Drives me up a wall. I’ve tried countless times to get them to stop, and they just won’t. And that goes for the Gloria in the Mass of Light as well.

The Celtic Alleluia is another one that they used to sing right away with the cantor, not waiting for the repeat. That stopped after about a month (when they could barely hear the melody the first time because I closed the Swell box).

And finally, the Agnus Dei. Apparently, they used to sing “Jesus Lamb of God” three times and be done with it. Well, I changed that one right away, and they stopped singing the first line. Especially when you have a priest that takes a long time to break the bread, and requires at least five verses. I can remember the first time he came here, I literally exhausted the verses that are written. But, I was using the Mass of Light at that time.

I’ve been in this parish for a year and a half, and I’m slowly getting them to do things “correctly.” And now going to confuse the heck out of them with the new missal when it comes out. Ugh… I have four workshops this summer to attend to learn more about it.
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Actually, there is no real need to attend the workshops. It’s just OCP’s and NPM’s way of making money and pushing their settings. Get hold of japhy’s book (one of our forum members wrote a book about the new translations) and look at the settings that ICEL has already posted on their website. These are easy to sing and will be included in the Roman Missal as what I believe to be the default musical settings. The good news is that the Gloria is not responsorial.

As far as the faithful learning them, at least we will be exorcised of the bad stuff that we’ve had to endure. Unfortunately, Bob Hurd and company are making new bad stuff. :eek:
 
pianomany2k said:
And finally, the Agnus Dei. Apparently, they used to sing “Jesus Lamb of God” three times and be done with it. Well, I changed that one right away, and they stopped singing the first line. Especially when you have a priest that takes a long time to break the bread, and requires at least five verses. I can remember the first time he came here, I literally exhausted the verses that are written. But, I was using the Mass of Light at that time.
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Not sure how you can exhaust the verses, you just repeat “Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world: have mercy on us” as many times as necessary and finish with “grant us peace.”
 
For as much as Haugen’s stuff tends to be pretty painfully awful, I actually do like the Mass of Creation, when it’s done well (we tend to stick to an eerie, echoing keyboard sound with some subtle cymbals for the first sing-through, then swell up to something a bit louder for the second).

What I’m more concerned about is the Gloria – I have a feeling the new translation is going to be trickier to set to music if you’re not just chanting it.
 
Phemie said:
Not sure how you can exhaust the verses, you just repeat “Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world: have mercy on us” as many times as necessary and finish with “grant us peace.”
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The only thing I can think of is that in the music for the Mass of Creation, it contains a bunch of tropes and perhaps that was what he/she meant when exhausting the verses. Although, we’re not supposed to be using the tropes.
 
Phemie said:
I hope that if he doesn’t the bishops do what they are supposed to do, tell him to make it right or not bother resubmitting it.

I hope that this time they won’t let a non-Catholic tell us what we should be singing.
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I thought Marty Haugen is a Catholic.
 
MarkThompson said:
What’s not to understand?

And as far as the Cincinnati workshop goes, he co-ran it with Father Jan Michael Joncas and Tony Alonso, who I believe is also Catholic.
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However, just because someone is Catholic, that does not necessarily mean that the individual possesses the Sensus Fideum of the Church, as evidenced by OCP. There was no need to have Haugen there, especially since he espouses many things that run contrary to what the Church holds.
 
corsair said:
So now that we have thoroughly bashed OCP, which they deserve; how about GIA’s latest,
giamusic.com/sacred_music/revised_mass_settings.cfm
Opinions?
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If I read the GIA notice correctly, then, at least it’s good to know that the one brilliant composer (in my opinion) in GIA’s stable, the late Richard Proulx, wrote the new settings before he died. He was the only hope for that publication. Unfortunately, we are stuck with more of the same from Haugen and Haas.
 
pnewton said:
They did not give enough information to form an opinion. The links do not work for the most part, or just link back to themselves. One can only view a small selection.
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The Community Mass setting is taking a long time to download. :mad:
 
corsair said:
So now that we have thoroughly bashed OCP, which they deserve; how about GIA’s latest,
giamusic.com/sacred_music/revised_mass_settings.cfm
Opinions?
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It’s all fairly decent work. By and large, if people didn’t like Mass of ____, they won’t like Mass of ____ 2010.

An interesting example is Mass of Light, with its well-known Gloria, “Glory to God in the highest, Sing! glory to God!”, which is now “Glory to God in the highest, Glory to God, and on earth peace to people, to people of good will.” It’s now musically licit, but it just doesn’t work compositionally. The updates to MoC (Benedictgal’s favorite, I know) actually do work pretty well musically, except that in measure 12 of the Gloria I would have kept a G for the words “and on.”

It’s tough to cram new words of totally different meter into old musical forms, so my main hope is that we’ll gradually see the end of things like Mass of Light and the creation of some new stuff in keeping with today’s Reform of the Reform zeitgeist.
 
MarkThompson said:
It’s all fairly decent work. By and large, if people didn’t like Mass of ____, they won’t like Mass of ____ 2010.

An interesting example is Mass of Light, with its well-known Gloria, “Glory to God in the highest, Sing! glory to God!”, which is now “Glory to God in the highest, Glory to God, and on earth peace to people, to people of good will.” It’s now musically licit, but it just doesn’t work compositionally. The updates to MoC (Benedictgal’s favorite, I know) actually do work pretty well musically, except that in measure 12 of the Gloria I would have kept a G for the words “and on.”

It’s tough to cram new words of totally different meter into old musical forms, so my main hope is that we’ll gradually see the end of things like Mass of Light and the creation of some new stuff in keeping with today’s Reform of the Reform zeitgeist.
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I know that the CCCB has commissioned at least 3 new settings of the new translation (workshops on those are already being given in our diocese) plus Richard Rice’s setting is available for the asking.
 
MarkThompson said:
It’s tough to cram new words of totally different meter into old musical forms, so my main hope is that we’ll gradually see the end of things like Mass of Light and the creation of some new stuff in keeping with today’s Reform of the Reform zeitgeist.
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Now as soon as someone decides what the most simple setting is that will become the “standard,” let me know.

And, looking at the MoC Gloria, are we not allowed to go back to the refrain after each verse?
 
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