Odd question for Mormons

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Can someone direct me to a website showing the faces of the senior leadership of the Catholic church? I’d like to see if I see sufficient non-white faces that would indicate a lack of the problem TexanKnight accuses my church of having. Can someone give a link to these folks’ personal finances? Can we talk about the Vatican and what it owns?

It makes sense that if you want to score points against my faith and church, then you should compare your best against my best, and your worst against my worst. Not best against worst.
Since you probably don’t want numbers from the continent of Africa, here is the number of African-American bishops in the USA:

“At present there are 16 living African American bishops of whom 10 remain active.”
Source: U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, Secretariat for African American Catholics

PS The Catholic Church has never taught that one couldn’t become a deacon, priest, or bishop due to his color. :rolleyes:
 
I had a bishop who suffered a bout of unemployment. Actually - two - one in Colorado and one in Utah. When we first moved to Colorado, someone knocked on our door one evening - it was a guy in well-used utility company overalls. He was our bishop, just coming home from work, stopping by to welcome us.

I dunno. It seems to me, that if you want to accuse my church hierarchy of something, we should be able to see how your church hierarchy does things.

Can someone direct me to a website showing the faces of the senior leadership of the Catholic church? I’d like to see if I see sufficient non-white faces that would indicate a lack of the problem TexanKnight accuses my church of having. Can someone give a link to these folks’ personal finances? Can we talk about the Vatican and what it owns?

It makes sense that if you want to score points against my faith and church, then you should compare your best against my best, and your worst against my worst. Not best against worst.
Im sure you can find something on our current and previous popes. And ill bet that when you bring up their pasts, 98% of them had grown up in poverty. As far as the Vatican owning stuff, sure they own land and the churches they have built, what church doesnt? And as far as scoring points, please. Thats a little childish of you. Are you 12 and saying “he said this and that”? But lets go there. Our church started by Christ, yours started by a known con man. How many points do we get? Our founder spoke truth, yours told lies. How many more points? Christ died for all of us, smith said he did more for his church than Christ did. Double points now? I can go on and on.
 
I had a bishop who suffered a bout of unemployment. Actually - two - one in Colorado and one in Utah. When we first moved to Colorado, someone knocked on our door one evening - it was a guy in well-used utility company overalls. He was our bishop, just coming home from work, stopping by to welcome us.

I dunno. It seems to me, that if you want to accuse my church hierarchy of something, we should be able to see how your church hierarchy does things.

Can someone direct me to a website showing the faces of the senior leadership of the Catholic church? I’d like to see if I see sufficient non-white faces that would indicate a lack of the problem TexanKnight accuses my church of having. Can someone give a link to these folks’ personal finances? Can we talk about the Vatican and what it owns?

It makes sense that if you want to score points against my faith and church, then you should compare your best against my best, and your worst against my worst. Not best against worst.
oh! My bad! Please accept my apologies. I was under the impression that YOUR Church was not comparable other Churches as YOURS was actually led by prophets and apostles. I now see, by your need to compare, that your Church is not led by prophets and apostles any more than the Baptist or Lutheran Churches are.

Thank you so much for clearing that up. And again, my apologies.
 
It makes sense that if you want to score points against my faith and church, then you should compare your best against my best, and your worst against my worst. Not best against worst.
I agree. 🙂 I know more than a few Mormon bishops who aren’t rich, by any means. I worked with a guy who was as poor as they come. Didn’t even have a checking account.

But, it is still a fact that those in higher LDS positions have both pedigree and money. You don’t ever see a Mormon apostle that is chosen from the ranks of the blue collar. Never.

The Pope doesn’t own the Vatican, so the comparison to LDS leaders with personal wealth is lost on me.
 
Can someone direct me to a website showing the faces of the senior leadership of the Catholic church? I’d like to see if I see sufficient non-white faces that would indicate a lack of the problem TexanKnight accuses my church of having. Can someone give a link to these folks’ personal finances? Can we talk about the Vatican and what it owns?
If you would be willing view any large gathering of Catholic bishops (take a look at the funeral of Pope John Paul, II) what you will find is that we have bishops from literally every ethnicity in the world; caucasion, black, latin, oriental, etc. Yes, we are truly universal, and this is not a modern phenomenon but has been so from the beginning. Even a cursory investigation by you would have answered the question you pose. Wiki has a list of bishops by nationality if you like.
 
Maybe this will help a little.

THE FIRST AFRICAN POPE
Code:
There have been headlines questioning whether or not the world is ready for the first black Pope. The only problem with such reporting is that they’re about 1,500 years too late. You see, a little research will show that not only has there been an African Pope before, but there have been three. They are: Pope Saint Victor 1, who served from 186-197 A.D., Pope Saint Miliades 1 from 311 to 314 A.D. and Pope Saint Gelasius 1 from 492-496 A.D.
Pretty much explains it doesn’t it? 🤷
 
Maybe this will help a little.

THE FIRST AFRICAN POPE
Code:
There have been headlines questioning whether or not the world is ready for the first black Pope. The only problem with such reporting is that they’re about 1,500 years too late. You see, a little research will show that not only has there been an African Pope before, but there have been three. They are: Pope Saint Victor 1, who served from 186-197 A.D., Pope Saint Miliades 1 from 311 to 314 A.D. and Pope Saint Gelasius 1 from 492-496 A.D.
Pretty much explains it doesn’t it? 🤷
Yes, it does.
 
I had a bishop who suffered a bout of unemployment. Actually - two - one in Colorado and one in Utah. When we first moved to Colorado, someone knocked on our door one evening - it was a guy in well-used utility company overalls. He was our bishop, just coming home from work, stopping by to welcome us.

I dunno. It seems to me, that if you want to accuse my church hierarchy of something, we should be able to see how your church hierarchy does things.

Can someone direct me to a website showing the faces of the senior leadership of the Catholic church? I’d like to see if I see sufficient non-white faces that would indicate a lack of the problem TexanKnight accuses my church of having. Can someone give a link to these folks’ personal finances? Can we talk about the Vatican and what it owns?

It makes sense that if you want to score points against my faith and church, then you should compare your best against my best, and your worst against my worst. Not best against worst.
Neuro,

here’s a reference for you that you lists all the Bishops and Cardinals in the Church. I would just note that there are 119 Cardinals under the age of 80, which is the age limit for electing the next Pope. These Cardinals come from 51 countries. There are an additional 92 Cardinals from 15 additional countries (66 total) that are over 80 years old.

gcatholic.com/hierarchy/cardinals.htm

If you want to count Bishops, here’s a similar link below. I count ~5,200 Bishops in 180 countries. The number of countries is greater than 180 if you count all the islands footnoted.

catholic-hierarchy.org/

You do have to heed scripture and understand that Christ built his church on Peter, to be with it, guiding it in Truth until the end of time and that the universality of the Church, across the globe, everywhere, is a testament to Christ keeping his promise(s) and to the Truth in the Catholic Church.

Daniel 7:14
He received dominion, splendor, and kingship;
all nations, peoples and tongues will serve him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
that shall not pass away,
his kingship, one that shall not be destroyed.

Matthew 5:14
14 You **(Catholic Church) **are the light of the world. A city set on a mountain cannot be hidden.
15 Nor do they light a lamp and then put it under a bushel basket; it is set on a lampstand, where it gives light to all in the house.
16 Just so, your light must shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your heavenly Father

Summary: Catholic Church = 200+ Cardinals from 66 countries and another 5,200 Bishops from 180 countries or more

Tell me more about the LDS prophet that is a German citizen…
 
The LDS God is so racist He only selected Jews to be His Apostles!! Can you believe it?!?!
that the best you can do? You cannot defend your racism so you pick on Christ, who selected people from the group he was around? And you compare that to horrible comments your “prophets” made about blacks?

really?

that is the best you can do?
 
Especially when you consider Gazelam’s refutation of prosperity theology, so evident in LDS culture. 😃
Now that I think about it a better description of LDS theology would be the “joint-heirs theology” since LDS preach that all of the righteous will be joint-heirs with Christ. (Romans 8:17) I think that sums it up nicely!!
 
Now that I think about it a better description of LDS theology would be the “joint-heirs theology” since LDS preach that all of the righteous will be joint-heirs with Christ. (Romans 8:17) I think that sums it up nicely!!
so you have dodged my apology.

hmmmmm

and jpoint heirs as a mormon means something different since mormons believe the LDS god was once a sinful man.

So, perhaops it is NOT summed up so nicely.
 
They do not have personal finances…as far as I can tell. All they own are the clothes on their backs…everything else is owned by the Church.
And they criticize the Catholic priests and bishops for getting paid and pat themselves on the back because their bishops volunteer. The great majority of religious take vows of poverty. Those who do have wealth, through inheritance or a prior business life, do not spend it on themselves, living in luxury, but usually give the majority to the poor, at least that has been my experience. One thing is for sure, no one enters the priesthood for the big bucks.
Okay…let us start with St. Francis of Assissi…can you find someone comparable?
While I am a little bias, since I am a Secular Franciscan (since June 4, 1994) and so am in complete agreement, when one really thinks of all the incredible Catholic saints throughout the centuries and the example they give to the rest of mankind, it is truly amazing.

As for Saint Francis, I don’t think there are any other faith traditions that can claim one who lived so Christ-like a life that he even suffered crucifixion at the hands of a seraph.
 
My priest get a paycheck. I forget what order he is but he told that he does. Its not much (he told me the amount but will not discuss it) but enough for him to buy C.o.C books for all new members in RCIA. His vehicle, furniture and everything in his home is donated to him. God bless him, he is a good man. He is young and left his career in electronics to become a priest.
 
Thanks for the link Porknpie. I know almost nothing about Catholic church hierarchy, so it’s good to see a link to stuff. So, Cardinals and Bishops are all over the world, and reflect all nationalities. That would also be true of LDS Stake Presidents and Bishops.

I guess what I’m asking, is what does the senior hierarchy look like? Does it go from Pope to Cardinal, or are there levels in between?

SteveVH, I see the first black Pope came at 186 AD. It looks like someone might want to go to wikipedia and edit his page - the picture shows him as white, and the article claims only “there are some who suggest that he was the first black African pope.”

Anyway, my church was organized in 1830, so if Pope Victor looked like his wikipedia photo, the next Pope you mention was Pope Saint Miliades 1 311 A.D. So if we don’t have a black Prophet by somewhere around 2110, then I’ll have to conceed the point to you.
 
My priest get a paycheck. I forget what order he is but he told that he does. Its not much (he told me the amount but will not discuss it) but enough for him to buy C.o.C books for all new members in RCIA. His vehicle, furniture and everything in his home is donated to him. God bless him, he is a good man. He is young and left his career in electronics to become a priest.
They all get a paycheck; they do have to eat food, have a roof over their heads, keep warm and have clothing. It is subsistance living, for the most part.
 
Thanks for the link Porknpie. I know almost nothing about Catholic church hierarchy, so it’s good to see a link to stuff. So, Cardinals and Bishops are all over the world, and reflect all nationalities. That would also be true of LDS Stake Presidents and Bishops.

I guess what I’m asking, is what does the senior hierarchy look like? Does it go from Pope to Cardinal, or are there levels in between?

SteveVH, I see the first black Pope came at 186 AD. It looks like someone might want to go to wikipedia and edit his page - the picture shows him as white, and the article claims only “there are some who suggest that he was the first black African pope.”

Anyway, my church was organized in 1830, so if Pope Victor looked like his wikipedia photo, the next Pope you mention was Pope Saint Miliades 1 311 A.D. So if we don’t have a black Prophet by somewhere around 2110, then I’ll have to conceed the point to you.
The point is that the Catholic Church has never excluded any race from either the priesthood nor its membership and does indeed include all races in each. Not so for the LDS. And I’m sorry, but are you really trying to compare the universality of the Catholic Church to the LDS church? We have been in every corner of the globe for centuries and the numbers and complexion of its members testifies to this.
 
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