Odd question for Mormons

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very well put Rebecca
Thanks. There are more than a few papers that have been published on the subject. From this particular one:

“Transcendentalists . . . believe in an order of truths which transcends the sphere of the external senses.Their leading idea is the supremacy of mind over matter. Hence they maintain that the truth of religion does not depend on tradition, or on historical facts, but has an unerring witness in the soul. There is a light, they believe, which enlighteneth every man that cometh into the world; there is a faculty in all, the most degraded, the most ignorant, the most obscure, to peceive spiritual truth, when distinctly represented; and the ultimate appeal, on all moral questions, is not to a jury of scholars, a hierarchy of divines, or the prescriptions of a creed, but to the common sense of the race.” - George Ripley

This aligns very well to the Mormon idea of “testimony”. A reliance on personal imagination.
 
American Transcendentalism also gave rise to another famous quasi-Christian group, which, however, is much more gnostic - as gnostic as any Valentinian or Basilidean ever was - the Church of Christ, Scientist (Christian Science, Mary Baker Eddy). I think it also influenced Whitehead (the Unitarian mathematician who was the original “process theologian”), Henry David Thoreau (the naturalist/environmentalist author and quasi-anarchist), and Ralph Waldo Emerson (the pantheistical mystic) - I’d go so far as to say that Emerson and Thoreau shaped it more than were influenced by it. I’d even wager that the psychologist-philosopher William James was influenced by the gestalt of Transcendentalism.

Swedenborg was a transcendentalist before the movement had a name, in a way, but more of a Hermetic gnostic.

You can see the common threads of thought through all of them, in their various spiritualities. There were other branches, too, most notably Spiritism and various Gnostic or “Hermetic” religions (one author called Mormonism “Hermetic Christianity”, which I think is apt), such as Joseph Smith himself (his peeping stones and dowsing and various magics), Theosophy and the Ascended Master Teachings, and virtually all of the “New Age”, which trace their roots to Transcendentalism and various corruptions of some Oriental spirituality, with heavy doses of ancient Greek and Egyptian gnosticism.
 
While there are racist Catholics, the Catholic Church has never barred people from the priesthood because of their race; the Catholic Church has never been racist.
Out of curiosity, how does the Catholic church view divine law before it came into existence? I’m specifically talking about those Old Testament scriptures I cited where God was pretty clear about only certain races being able to hold the priesthood.

We Mormons figure that God deals with folks in different times in different ways. He replaced the blood sacrifice, with the sacrifice of a broken heart and contrite spirit. Passover promises were fulfilled in the last supper, etc. Yeah, ok, you tell me the Catholic church never barred people from the priesthood because of race - ok, I believe you. But there were a heck of a lot of people living on Earth before the Catholic church, and God had dealings with them, and He did indeed used to restrict the priesthood to certain races, sometimes even certain parentage. What’s a Catholic’s take on this?
 
Out of curiosity, how does the Catholic church view divine law before it came into existence? I’m specifically talking about those Old Testament scriptures I cited where God was pretty clear about only certain races being able to hold the priesthood.

We Mormons figure that God deals with folks in different times in different ways. He replaced the blood sacrifice, with the sacrifice of a broken heart and contrite spirit. Passover promises were fulfilled in the last supper, etc. Yeah, ok, you tell me the Catholic church never barred people from the priesthood because of race - ok, I believe you. But there were a heck of a lot of people living on Earth before the Catholic church, and God had dealings with them, and He did indeed used to restrict the priesthood to certain races, sometimes even certain parentage. What’s a Catholic’s take on this?
Still dodging the prophet quotes?
 
Out of curiosity, how does the Catholic church view divine law before it came into existence? I’m specifically talking about those Old Testament scriptures I cited where God was pretty clear about only certain races being able to hold the priesthood.
The scriptures you cite say nothing about race.
We Mormons figure that God deals with folks in different times in different ways. He replaced the blood sacrifice, with the sacrifice of a broken heart and contrite spirit.
Jesus fulfilled the blood sacrifice on the cross.
Passover promises were fulfilled in the last supper, etc.
Also, fulfilled on the cross.
Yeah, ok, you tell me the Catholic church never barred people from the priesthood because of race - ok, I believe you. But there were a heck of a lot of people living on Earth before the Catholic church, and God had dealings with them, and He did indeed used to restrict the priesthood to certain races, sometimes even certain parentage. What’s a Catholic’s take on this?
You have to understand that Catholics are not individualistic. Jesus was a Jew, who fulfilled Jewish prophecy. Christ died for all. God may deal with individuals or groups, as is His will, but Salvation history shows us this is for the Good of all.

While Mormons look for exclusion and apostasy, we see inclusion and continuity. Culminating in Jesus Christ. For Mormons to say exclusivity is the will of God, is counter to the Person of Jesus Christ. In Him we don’t have to wonder at what God’s purpose is for us, and wonder who is excluded and who is included. ALL are included.

As TK said, you are willfully ignoring your own history, which is a very odd thing to do.
 
The scriptures you cite say nothing about race.

are you sure? typically, if the Bible did not say what Joseph Smith needed, he rewrote them to suit his needs…is is call the JST

Jesus fulfilled the blood sacrifice on the cross.

LDS believe it was fulfilled in the Garden

While Mormons look for exclusion and apostasy, we see inclusion and continuity.

I absolutely love this line!

As TK said, you are willfully ignoring your own history, which is a very odd thing to do.

All Mormons do it.
 
TK, I don’t consider the JST scripture. 😛 I also don’t think Smith is the origin the Mormon priesthood ban. That came with BY.
 
We have to remember that God made himself known to the Jews first.

They are the chosen ones.

Then as his presence is better known, felt, understood, and mankind progresses, He sends Jesus.

Jesus then says to go out and preach the Gospel to the world.

In other words, God started in one place and spread from there.

That is not exclusion. It is more like a plan to make sure a few understand, then more, then more, etc.

It is the plan of salvation.
 
**We have to remember that God made himself known to the Jews first. **

They are the chosen ones.

Then as his presence is better known, felt, understood, and mankind progresses, He sends Jesus.

Jesus then says to go out and preach the Gospel to the world.

In other words, God started in one place and spread from there.

That is not exclusion. It is more like a plan to make sure a few understand, then more, then more, etc.

It is the plan of salvation.
Two -

Adam and Eve were Jewish?

😉
 
We have to remember that God made himself known to the Jews first.

They are the chosen ones.

Then as his presence is better known, felt, understood, and mankind progresses, He sends Jesus.

Jesus then says to go out and preach the Gospel to the world.

In other words, God started in one place and spread from there.

That is not exclusion. It is more like a plan to make sure a few understand, then more, then more, etc.

It is the plan of salvation.
Yes, this is a teaching that was very attractive to me before I became a Catholic.

II. THE STAGES OF REVELATION

In the beginning God makes himself known

54 "God, who creates and conserves all things by his Word, provides men with constant evidence of himself in created realities. And furthermore, wishing to open up the way to heavenly salvation - he manifested himself to our first parents from the very beginning."6 He invited them to intimate communion with himself and clothed them with resplendent grace and justice.

55 This revelation was not broken off by our first parents’ sin. "After the fall, [God] buoyed them up with the hope of salvation, by promising redemption; and he has never ceased to show his solicitude for the human race. For he wishes to give eternal life to all those who seek salvation by patience in well-doing."7

Even when he disobeyed you and lost your friendship you did not abandon him to the power of death. . . Again and again you offered a covenant to man.8
The Covenant with Noah

56 After the unity of the human race was shattered by sin God at once sought to save humanity part by part. The covenant with Noah after the flood gives expression to the principle of the divine economy toward the “nations”, in other words, towards men grouped “in their lands, each with [its] own language, by their families, in their nations”.9

57 This state of division into many nations is at once cosmic, social and religious. It is intended to limit the pride of fallen humanity10 united only in its perverse ambition to forge its own unity as at Babel.11 But, because of sin, both polytheism and the idolatry of the nation and of its rulers constantly threaten this provisional economy with the perversion of paganism.12

58 The covenant with Noah remains in force during the times of the Gentiles, until the universal proclamation of the Gospel.13 The Bible venerates several great figures among the Gentiles: Abel the just, the king-priest Melchisedek - a figure of Christ - and the upright “Noah, Daniel, and Job”.14 Scripture thus expresses the heights of sanctity that can be reached by those who live according to the covenant of Noah, waiting for Christ to “gather into one the children of God who are scattered abroad”.15

God chooses Abraham

59 In order to gather together scattered humanity God calls Abram from his country, his kindred and his father’s house,16 and makes him Abraham, that is, “the father of a multitude of nations”. "In you all the nations of the earth shall be blessed."17

60 The people descended from Abraham would be the trustee of the promise made to the patriarchs, the chosen people, called to prepare for that day when God would gather all his children into the unity of the Church.18 They would be the root on to which the Gentiles would be grafted, once they came to believe.19

61 The patriarchs, prophets and certain other Old Testament figures have been and always will be honored as saints in all the Church’s liturgical traditions.

God forms his people Israel

62 After the patriarchs, God formed Israel as his people by freeing them from slavery in Egypt. He established with them the covenant of Mount Sinai and, through Moses, gave them his law so that they would recognize him and serve him as the one living and true God, the provident Father and just judge, and so that they would look for the promised Savior.20

63 Israel is the priestly people of God, “called by the name of the LORD”, and “the first to hear the word of God”,21 the people of “elder brethren” in the faith of Abraham.

64 Through the prophets, God forms his people in the hope of salvation, in the expectation of a new and everlasting Covenant intended for all, to be written on their hearts.22 The prophets proclaim a radical redemption of the People of God, purification from all their infidelities, a salvation which will include all the nations.23 Above all, the poor and humble of the Lord will bear this hope. Such holy women as Sarah, Rebecca, Rachel, Miriam, Deborah, Hannah, Judith and Esther kept alive the hope of Israel’s salvation. The purest figure among them is Mary.24

III. CHRIST JESUS – "MEDIATOR AND FULLNESS OF ALL REVELATION"25

God has said everything in his Word

65 "In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son."26 Christ, the Son of God made man, is the Father’s one, perfect and unsurpassable Word. In him he has said everything; there will be no other word than this one. St. John of the Cross, among others, commented strikingly on Hebrews 1:1-2:

In giving us his Son, his only Word (for he possesses no other), he spoke everything to us at once in this sole Word - and he has no more to say. . . because what he spoke before to the prophets in parts, he has now spoken all at once by giving us the All Who is His Son. Any person questioning God or desiring some vision or revelation would be guilty not only of foolish behavior but also of offending him, by not fixing his eyes entirely upon Christ and by living with the desire for some other novelty.
 
55 This revelation was not broken off by our first parents’ sin. "After the fall, [God] buoyed them up with the hope of salvation, by promising redemption; and he has never ceased to show his solicitude for the human race. For he wishes to give eternal life to all those who seek salvation by patience in well-doing."7
I wanted to zero in on this for just a second.

Was it Parker or Diania that said God put Adam and Eve here **intending **them to fail, so things would progress.
 
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