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J
JMJ_coder
Guest
Hello,
Ecce Agnus Dei, ecce qui tollit peccàta mundi. Beàti qui ad cenam Agni vocàti sunt.
It translates literally to:
Behold the Lamb of God, behold Him Who takes away the sins of the world. Blessed are we are called to the supper of the Lamb.
But the ICEL translation reads:
This is the Lamb of God Who takes away the sins of the world Happy are those who are called to His supper.
The prayer you are referring to is:
Ecce Agnus Dei, ecce qui tollit peccàta mundi. Beàti qui ad cenam Agni vocàti sunt.
It translates literally to:
Behold the Lamb of God, behold Him Who takes away the sins of the world. Blessed are we are called to the supper of the Lamb.
But the ICEL translation reads:
This is the Lamb of God Who takes away the sins of the world Happy are those who are called to His supper.
J
JMJ_coder
Guest
Hello,
It is my understanding that the normative posture after the Great Amen for the Latin Church is to stand. It is a special change, by the authority of the Bishops, that the people are to kneel after the Agnus Dei. Those Bishops who instruct the people to follow the normative posture of standing are within their competent authority to do so.
GIRM 43: In the dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason. Those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the consecration. The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.
As for the instructions for posture after reception of Communion, if Cardinal Arinze has made a clarification on that, then his clarification should be followed.
It is my understanding that the normative posture after the Great Amen for the Latin Church is to stand. It is a special change, by the authority of the Bishops, that the people are to kneel after the Agnus Dei. Those Bishops who instruct the people to follow the normative posture of standing are within their competent authority to do so.
GIRM 43: In the dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason. Those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the consecration. The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.
As for the instructions for posture after reception of Communion, if Cardinal Arinze has made a clarification on that, then his clarification should be followed.
B
Br.Rich_SFO
Guest
“It is my understanding that the normative posture after the Great Amen for the Latin Church is to stand.” That is correct, however, kneeling is the normative posture in the United States. Without specific direction to do otherwise from the Bishop, everyone should kneel in the U.S.
J
JMJ_coder
Guest
Hello,
And you know, I was thinking that I should have made that clarification after I wrote my post.
M
MJE
Guest
I found the answer to my original question: How many diocese are directing standing as opposed to kneeling @ the Ecce Agnus Dei and after Holy Communion. Answer: around 7. I found it at the wonderful site Adoramus.org. The directive to stand in my diocese is being promoted as “coming from the Holy Father (JPII) himself”. This is an excerpt from Adoramus re: this
Home | Join/Donate | Adoremus Bulletin |Archive | Index | Church Documents | Architecture | Posture | Music | Translation | What’s NEW? | FAQ | Search Site
Online Edition - Vol. IX, No. 1: March 2003
“Unless the diocesan bishop determines otherwise”
Are there any limits to a bishop’s authority to change liturgical rules?
by Helen Hull Hitchcock
Several bishops have issued new directives, recently, concerning the people’s posture and/or gestures at Mass. Some of these are either not in accordance with the liturgical regulations for the United States, or interpret them inconsistently.
People are confused. Are all dioceses in a given country supposed to follow the same rules for the celebration of Mass?
With few exceptions, yes – in part to protect the “substantial unity” of the Roman rite, diocesan bishops are to observe the liturgical regulations that are adopted by the Conference of Bishops and approved by the Holy See. Are there limits to the changes in liturgical rules a bishop may impose within his own diocese?
With the implementation of the Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani (IGMR) and the “American adaptations” last spring, the matter of the authority of a diocesan bishop to change these rules has taken an unexpected turn.
Explanations for changing the liturgical norms usually stress that uniformity of gesture or posture is required to express unity; and that obedience to the bishop supersedes custom and tradition.
Some who depart from approved adaptations for the US – for example, by forbidding kneeling after the Agnus Dei, or requiring all communicants to stand until after the last person has received Communion – say that the bishop is following the mandate of the “universal Church”, the Holy See, and even the Holy Father himself. A bulletin insert distributed in the archdiocese of** Seattle ***states unequivocally that “These changes are happening at the direction of the Holy Father, Pope John Paul II”; obviously derived from liturgical instructions distributed by the Worship Center of the archdiocese of Minneapolis-Saint Paul, written by Jesuit Father Dennis Smolarski, SJ, which says, “Ultimately, these changes are happening at the direction of the Hoy Father” – a misleading statement, at best. The Diocese of Saint Cloud uses the Minneapolis material. There may be others, as well.
In every diocese where these deviations occur, the response of Catholics ranges from confusion and distress to anger and distrust.
Distrust, yes.
Home | Join/Donate | Adoremus Bulletin |Archive | Index | Church Documents | Architecture | Posture | Music | Translation | What’s NEW? | FAQ | Search Site
Online Edition - Vol. IX, No. 1: March 2003
“Unless the diocesan bishop determines otherwise”
Are there any limits to a bishop’s authority to change liturgical rules?
by Helen Hull Hitchcock
Several bishops have issued new directives, recently, concerning the people’s posture and/or gestures at Mass. Some of these are either not in accordance with the liturgical regulations for the United States, or interpret them inconsistently.
People are confused. Are all dioceses in a given country supposed to follow the same rules for the celebration of Mass?
With few exceptions, yes – in part to protect the “substantial unity” of the Roman rite, diocesan bishops are to observe the liturgical regulations that are adopted by the Conference of Bishops and approved by the Holy See. Are there limits to the changes in liturgical rules a bishop may impose within his own diocese?
With the implementation of the Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani (IGMR) and the “American adaptations” last spring, the matter of the authority of a diocesan bishop to change these rules has taken an unexpected turn.
Explanations for changing the liturgical norms usually stress that uniformity of gesture or posture is required to express unity; and that obedience to the bishop supersedes custom and tradition.
Some who depart from approved adaptations for the US – for example, by forbidding kneeling after the Agnus Dei, or requiring all communicants to stand until after the last person has received Communion – say that the bishop is following the mandate of the “universal Church”, the Holy See, and even the Holy Father himself. A bulletin insert distributed in the archdiocese of** Seattle ***states unequivocally that “These changes are happening at the direction of the Holy Father, Pope John Paul II”; obviously derived from liturgical instructions distributed by the Worship Center of the archdiocese of Minneapolis-Saint Paul, written by Jesuit Father Dennis Smolarski, SJ, which says, “Ultimately, these changes are happening at the direction of the Hoy Father” – a misleading statement, at best. The Diocese of Saint Cloud uses the Minneapolis material. There may be others, as well.
In every diocese where these deviations occur, the response of Catholics ranges from confusion and distress to anger and distrust.
Distrust, yes.
J
Jim
Guest
We kneel for the Consecration and then stand and remain standing after the Lamb of God. People kneel after receiving Communion.
M
mlldrl
Guest
We stand in the diocese of Lafayette in Indiana. The other two diocese in the state do not.
Michael
Michael
C
cheeto1
Guest
Well, thanks for all the information. I guess it wasn’t as unusual
as I thought. Of course some people kneel if they want to.
Technically, I guess it’s o.k. to kneel and pray in the grocery
store. I miss the kneeling at this time of mass, but I miss the
unity more. The power is in the unity, not the kneeling.
Blessings on all today…
as I thought. Of course some people kneel if they want to.
Technically, I guess it’s o.k. to kneel and pray in the grocery
store. I miss the kneeling at this time of mass, but I miss the
unity more. The power is in the unity, not the kneeling.
Blessings on all today…
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