Of Flags, Anthems, and Symbols

[Son_of_Niall]

I seriously do not believe patriotism equals idolatry. If that is the thrust of this thread, it is disrespectful

Where in the thread have I or anyone else say patriotism equals idolatry?
It is about the IRONY and the HYPOCRISY of certain segments of right-wing evangelicals.

 

[GKC]

Eeeegglactly GKC.
When I dared to say on Facebook that Colin Whateverhislastnameis, had the right to not stand, it was met with howls of protest that somehow equates the American flag with the Cross.
No Christian, of any variety should worship the state. It smacks of the same behavior as the Germans in the 1930s.

I suppose that there might be some who worship the state, in an analogous fashion to religious worship, the flag standing as analog to the crucifix, the national anthem to something like the Angelus. I’ve never met one.

The person in the football uniform certainly had the right not to stand (and I have the right to judge his actions and reasons for doing so, personally), subject to any theoretical legally binding commitments to stand. Were he in the sort uniform I wore for 20 years, that right would be abrogated, in specific circumstances. Which only illustrates that things are not necessarily equal to other things, even when they seem to be…

 

[GKC]

No I’m with Michael on this one. An equation or respect for the flag is being made with worship and prayer in a church toward sacramentals and crucifixes. It’s not a valid comparison of what is occurring. Not unless you have concrete proof you’d like to share of people praying to the US Flag for it’s intercession with God? The US Government? Uncle Sam?

Yep.

 

[GKC]

I’ve not given up saluting the flag or standing for the anthem.

I respect the country I live in that has allowed me the freedom to practice (and indeed lose and rediscover) my religion in peace. I don’t worship it however, nor is it being saluted in an idolatrous way as I don’t see my nation as God. On the contrary, it’s a very flawed, very human institution that just happens to have done enough good for me to have some level of respect for it.

Indeed when the Canadian flag for example is flown and the Canadian national anthem is played/sung I similarly stand and show respect to that flag and the nation it represents because I respect Canada as well and the nation it stands for, for many of the same reasons I respect my own nation. It’s not even a sense of nationalism that drives that respect, it’s purely respect for those nations the flags represent for their IMO overall positive impact on the world.

Yep.

 

[GKC]

I’m not happy when they say we are idolaters because we know its not true. Now we have a thread to call them the same using just as flimsy evidence. It’s not right IMO

Yep.

 

[Padres1969]

It’s to the flag with the republic as a secondary pledge. It would make sense to pledge allegiance to the republic. You can pledge allegiance to persons or corporate bodies of persons. You could write this off as poetic language, and maybe it is bad poetry. But how many times has the poetic language of Catholic devotion been given equal treatment by anti-Catholics, who are the subject of the thread?

**I realize the flag is a representation of the republic, but that is precisely the point. A statue is a representation of a person. But I don’t know of any Catholic devotion which goes something like, ‘I consecrate myself to the statue, and the Immaculate Heart for which it stands’.
**
I don’t know how to make it more clear but I’m not saying it is idolatrous. I’m saying the same people who condemn Catholic practice should be condemned by their attitude towards the flag. It is their standard, not mine.

True, but how many times have you heard a Catholic say they’re going to pray “to Mary” or “to Saint XXX” for guidance, support, etc… Many Catholics (and other high church Christians) often use language that if you are to strictly interpret what they say implies they’re not praying for intercession, but are praying TO the Saint. Now that may not be their intention (at least I hope it isn’t), but when that type of language is used, and in my experience it is commonly used, theologically you’re saying to the world you’re praying to someone other than the Trinune God. THAT is what in my experience the hardcore anti-Catholic Christians glom on to. And the statuary and other Sacramentals are simply physical manifestations of that, hence they become a very obvious target and the accusations of idolatry.

Now if you’re not a Catholic who makes that mistake and is clear that they’re praying for interecession from Saints and Mary, it might seem puzzling. But far too many Catholics, and indeed high church Protestants as well, don’t make it clear they’re praying for intercession. And some in my experience aren’t even doing it by mistake, they don’t understand that they’re supposed to be praying for intercession, not directly to the Saint as if they were God.

And of course that doesn’t even get into those Christians who object to the concept of Saints on a very base level in that they see them as nothing but pious dead people. And that Catholics and High Church Protestants that are praying to them, even for intercession, are praying to dead men/women and their bones.

But regardless of the objection to Saintly intercession, the comparison to reverence to a flag and/or nation is still a very specious one. Since at the very base, no prayers are offered to a flag or a nation.