Oil Prices Soar

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wabrams:
My memory is fuzzung, but back in the 1980’s there was a plane crash in Texas that killed several oil big-wigs. Caused all kinds of financial problems, etc.
No, I am refering to the time in the mid 1980’s when the price of a barrel of oil dropped from around $38/barrel to something like $12/barrel in about a year. It almost wiped out the oil industry. Here in Houston, there were literally thousands of people laid off on an almost daily basis. I know. I was in the industry at the time.

People who didn’t live in an area that relied on the energy industry loved the low price of gasoline and heating oil. I don’t remember anyone offering to pay more than the market price to help the oil companies.

Peace

Tim
 
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Orogeny:
So who gets to decide what reasonable is? Wouldn’t that be the consumer?
So you think people should just refuse to go to work or take their kids to school to send a message to the oil companies?

Mike
 
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MikeWM:
So you think people should just refuse to go to work or take their kids to school to send a message to the oil companies?

Mike
I think that if people cannot afford the price of fuel, they will cut back to a level they can afford.

You didn’t answer my question. Who gets to decide what is reasonable?

Peace

Tim
 
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Orogeny:
No, I am refering to the time in the mid 1980’s when the price of a barrel of oil dropped from around $38/barrel to something like $12/barrel in about a year. It almost wiped out the oil industry. Here in Houston, there were literally thousands of people laid off on an almost daily basis. I know. I was in the industry at the time.

People who didn’t live in an area that relied on the energy industry loved the low price of gasoline and heating oil. I don’t remember anyone offering to pay more than the market price to help the oil companies.

Peace

Tim
I’m sorry to hear you lost your job. But what caused the price of oil to drop by that much?
 
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Orogeny:
I think that if people cannot afford the price of fuel, they will cut back to a level they can afford.
Some people are at the stage where they are struggling to pay the fuel bill to drive to work or to run their business. That isn’t extravagant expenditure, it is a necessity.
You didn’t answer my question. Who gets to decide what is reasonable?
Some things can’t be done at the individual level. That is why we organise in groups, and in the end, why we have an elected government.

Mike
 
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wabrams:
I’m sorry to hear you lost your job. But what caused the price of oil to drop by that much?
I don’t know. The oil business is cyclical. While the business is in a boom now, at some point it will go bust. Everyone in the industry understands that. Remember, the price of oil is set by the market, not the oil companies. They have no say in the matter.

I just remember watching the evening news and seeing all these people leaving the building after being laid off. The effect on the economy here was devastating. Everyone suffered, even if they didn’t work in the industry.

By the way, I didn’t lose my job, but I did get to watch as we had a 75% staff reduction in a two week period. I had a lot of friends that lost everything.

Peace

Tim
 
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MikeWM:
Some people are at the stage where they are struggling to pay the fuel bill to drive to work or to run their business. That isn’t extravagant expenditure, it is a necessity.
I understand that. I am in that situation myself. I will just have to make adjustments where I can. If it gets to where I can’t afford the drive, I’ll have to find another job closer to home or one I can get to using public transportation.
Some things can’t be done at the individual level. That is why we organise in groups, and in the end, why we have an elected government.

Mike
Should the government prop up the oil companies when times are bad?

Peace

Tim
 
Living in the great Motor City, (where the car companies bought out the railroads and bankrupted them so that there was no decent public transportation, forcing the Michigan residents to buy cars and rely solely on them) I know that we fuel guzzling Americans are just as guilty as we drive around in our huge SUVs and live in our super large homes that cost a small fortune to heat. Why? Because we can. Isn’t that reason enough?

As for me, I’m currently looking into how I can alter my car engine so that it will run on vegetable oil: dancingrabbit.org/biodiesel/ I may leave a strong scent of fried foods in my wake…feel free to join me.

As for the comment about the government profiting, we can only hope that those profits are going to be used for the victims and rebuilding of the cities.

Anglican77
 
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wabrams:
When it has far reaching affects all across the economy, I do.
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By JEREMIAH MCWILLIAMS AND GEORGINA STARK, The Virginian-Pilot. It’s official. After reaching record highs following Hurricane …
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Statewide, the cost has fallen by nearly $1 per gallon of regular gas in October. And if favorable market conditions continue, AAA …
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Oil prices over the past year have been extremely unstable. Even before Katrina hit oil prices were fluctuating at very high levels. …
 
gilliam said:
Gas prices come down to pre-Katrina level
Virginian Pilot, VA - 57 minutes ago
By JEREMIAH MCWILLIAMS AND GEORGINA STARK, The Virginian-Pilot. It’s official. After reaching record highs following Hurricane …
Va. gas prices fall in October
Lynchburg News and Advance, VA - 2 hours ago
Statewide, the cost has fallen by nearly $1 per gallon of regular gas in October. And if favorable market conditions continue, AAA …
Inventing a New Oil Policy
RedState.org, VA - Oct 26, 2005
Oil prices over the past year have been extremely unstable. Even before Katrina hit oil prices were fluctuating at very high levels. …

I know about all of this. I should have clarified that the government should get involved if the affects are predicted to be long term.
 
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MikeWM:
The government isn’t a black hole. It spends that money on programs that benefit us all.

The company isn’t a black hole either, but it spends that money on the lucky few who have the money in the first place to afford shares in the company, and who don’t do anything to get the gas to you either.

Mike
Come on Mike, you are not that naive. The government is the biggest black hole in history. Look at any “beneficial” program and you will find that on average less than 20¢ of every dollar spent (and often FAR less) actually gets to where it is needed. The rest just goes to feed the machine. When the same type of program is run in the private sector the overwhelming majority of the money gets to the right place.
 
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wabrams:
That tax money is used for the highways and interstates.
Only a SMALL percentage of it. Most of it goes to feed the government. Just look at some figures on how much is collected versus how much is actually spent.
 
I heard someone make a point that would seem to be valid to me:

It is said that American oil companies can actually get oil out of the ground and refine it and still be able to afford to sell it at $25 - $30 per barrel. Even if this is true (and it may well be) what motivation do they have to sell it at that price if the going price on the world market is $50 - $60 per barrel? Sure, it would be admirably patriotic to sell all of their product within our own country at the low price but it would also be pretty stupid from a business standpoint.
 
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JOHNYJ:
President Busha nd his friends are rolling in big bucks.Texaco has higher profits than in its entire history. Americans wil be chilly this winter in homes they can’t heat because President Bush won’t curtail the excess’s of his buddies. Many Americans who voted for The President are about to get a very Rude awakening.
Another conspiracy theory.
 
Crude oil is a commodity and the price is determined by supply and demand. So is refined fuel. When regulations inhibit the development of these resources while at the same time demand for the product is skyrocketing, the prices will go up. When that happens, profits rise, investors (that’s us) receive more value in their portfolio, and investment is made in exploration, production, and refining. This means that jobs are created and people have money to spend. If the government will allow more wells to be drilled and more refineries to be built, we would see a balancing in the forces of supply and demand.

Or, we could choose to live in a socialist economic system where we are all poor, cold, hungry, and have calloused feet from walking where we want to go because we can’t get fuel (or much else, for that matter).
 
There seems to be some concern about “excess profits”.

What is a “profit”? And how do you know what are “excess profits”?

On one level, “profit” is the difference between what you pay for something and what you sell it for. If you go on “ebay” or have a garage sale or go to a swap meet, and if you have something you paid $20 for and if you sell it for $30, then you have a profit of $10.

A ten dollar profit on a purchase cost of $20, means you have a profit of 50%. Is that “excessive”?

On the other hand, if you had to pay for the space on ebay or at the swap meet, then that would cut down your profit. And if you had to advertise your garage sale in the paper, then that cost would cut down on your profit.

What if you just stapled a sign to a telephone pole for your garage sale? Well, if you had to buy the cardboard for the sign, or the marker, or the tacks, then it cut down your profit some more.

And it assumes that you had no labor cost… you did all the work yourself. But what if you paid someone to look after your booth, or driveway, while you ducked out on an errand… another deduct from your profit. Did you buy lunch? [hot dog and a soda]… more deductions.

So, maybe you paid $20 and sold it for $30 but had expenses for gasoline, fees, food, supplies and “help” … for $20. So you ended up, instead of a profit, having a loss of $10.

You may only be a simple ebay seller, or a garage sale offerer, but you had expenses. Not to mention your time. (Is it “OK” to work for free???)

A large corporation, or a stock market, or an investor is no different… the totals may be larger, but the principles are all the same.

Profit (or loss) is just the difference between what you pay and what you sell for. It could be oil, or cars, or plastic coathangers, or airline seats or pez dispensers.
 
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Sirach14:
Another conspiracy theory.
No, I’d say it’s pretty accurate w/ the President’s connections to the oil industry and the huge profits of the oil companies in the 3rd Quarter.

As far as curtailing “his buddies,” that’s an opinion I don’t hold too.
 
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