Ok for Catholics to go and stay at Orthodoxy?

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Paul_theApostle

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Since Orthodoxy and their sacraments are valid from Catholic perspective,would it be ok for Catholics to go over or join Orthodoxy serving/worshipping God there for the rest of their lives?

If Orthodoxy is valid,why would a Catholics discourage someone from going over to Orthodoxy?

Ive heard that Divine liturgy doesnt fulfil sunday obligation but why is that if their Liturgy and Eucharist is valid?
 
Of course you can go there. Would you assume they are not human beings. Haven’t you talked to these guys here? And how about this, you could spend the rest of your life there with my personal Blessing. 🤷

Right you’ll have to speak to whomever is their about communion, your not invited. Those guys will tell you how it works, probly simliar to the RCIA. I do not know.

Why is it one way in our church and different in theirs with communion and visa-versa? Apparently it was act of good faith by the Catholic’s, however they are dragging this out with the communion of the two churchs. I imagine its more complicated than I imagine. I don’t know, I rarely focus on problems, I focus on solutions. One time around the sun and you’ll know the problems. The real problem is a solution to the issues and obviously in Russia.

btw I do-not know whom discouraged you. Sounds like a direct question for you and them.

Peace
 
You did not state why you want to convert. Are you bored with Catholicism? That might indicate you know everything there is to know about the Catholic faith, indicating you could become a Catechist, which may keep you from boredom. (It actually would indicate you could become a Theology Professor however; there is a LOT of schooling required there.) I majored in Theology at a Catholic college (St Catherine, St. Paul, MN) and feel that I know NOTHING about the Catholic religion. However; the more I learn, the more interesting it becomes.

If someone/something in Catholicism bothers you, talk to someone about it.

I too converted from Catholicism at one point. Here I am though ~ back home with the Catholics.

Whatever you do ~ do it well. God bless.
 
Of course you can go there. Would you assume they are not human beings. Haven’t you talked to these guys here? And how about this, you could spend the rest of your life there with my personal Blessing. 🤷

Right you’ll have to speak to whomever is their about communion, your not invited. Those guys will tell you how it works, probly simliar to the RCIA. I do not know.

Why is it one way in our church and different in theirs with communion and visa-versa? Apparently it was act of good faith by the Catholic’s, however they are dragging this out with the communion of the two churchs. I imagine its more complicated than I imagine. I don’t know, I rarely focus on problems, I focus on solutions. One time around the sun and you’ll know the problems. The real problem is a solution to the issues and obviously in Russia.

btw I do-not know whom discouraged you. Sounds like a direct question for you and them.

Peace
I think he wants to know why a DL in an Orthodox church is not considered the equivalent of attending Sunday Mass, because it doesn’t fulfill your Sunday obligation.
He does bring an interesting question: why is it that attending a Divine Liturgy in an Eastern Catholic parish fulfill Sunday obligation, but not one in an Orthodox parish, considering that the Roman Catholic Church recognizes the Orthodox sacraments? Is the only effective difference communion with the Pope?
 
I think he wants to know why a DL in an Orthodox church is not considered the equivalent of attending Sunday Mass, because it doesn’t fulfill your Sunday obligation.
He does bring an interesting question: why is it that attending a Divine Liturgy in an Eastern Catholic parish fulfill Sunday obligation, but not one in an Orthodox parish, considering that the Roman Catholic Church recognizes the Orthodox sacraments? Is the only effective difference communion with the Pope?
Yes thats the bottom line. When you compare the Eastern Catholic with the EO It just becomes an even more sad situation IMHO.

Peace
 
Since Orthodoxy and their sacraments are valid from Catholic perspective,would it be ok for Catholics to go over or join Orthodoxy serving/worshipping God there for the rest of their lives?

If Orthodoxy is valid,why would a Catholics discourage someone from going over to Orthodoxy?

Ive heard that Divine liturgy doesnt fulfil sunday obligation but why is that if their Liturgy and Eucharist is valid?
One thing to note is that valid sacraments do not make the religion valid. They do not have communion with the Pope and therefore are not the fullness of Truth. To leave Catholicism for EO would be denying the Spirit and we all know how that works out.

To answer your question, you cannot become EO and have it be considered equivalent to RC. There is a reason they are a different denomination. The Eastern Churches are Catholic so you could be part of their church, but not the EO at this time.

I guess you could say that the premise to your question is inaccurate since Orthodoxy is not valid.

God Bless.
 
One thing to note is that valid sacraments do not make the religion valid. They do not have communion with the Pope and therefore are not the fullness of Truth. To leave Catholicism for EO would be denying the Spirit and we all know how that works out.

To answer your question, you cannot become EO and have it be considered equivalent to RC. There is a reason they are a different denomination. The Eastern Churches are Catholic so you could be part of their church, but not the EO at this time.

I guess you could say that the premise to your question is inaccurate since Orthodoxy is not valid.

God Bless.
I just LOVE it when people who have no idea of what they are talking about answer questions like this!! Gotta love it!! 😃
 
There is a reason they are a different denomination.
Denomination is not the correct term
The Eastern Churches are Catholic so you could be part of their church, but not the EO at this time.
Orthodox have always been Catholic, from Pentacost to this very day.
I guess you could say that the premise to your question is inaccurate since Orthodoxy is not valid.
Technically, the Orthodox Catholic sacraments and orders would be considered valid but illicit by your church. As valid as the Roman Catholic and SSPX churches, but ‘not with permission’ of the Roman Supreme Pontiff, which is why it is considered illicit.
 
I just LOVE it when people who have no idea of what they are talking about answer questions like this!! Gotta love it!! 😃
The presupposition of the argument is that we are talking about Orthodox churches not in communion with Rome. Orthodox churches in communion with Rome do not fall under the OPs question since they become in effect a different rite in the Catholic church. If the Orthodox church were in communion with Rome, there would be nothing wrong with becoming Orthodox. This is not the path I was discussing since the question would be unnecessary and it should be made clear that you cannot use Orthodox in general because not all Orthodox are in communion with Rome.

While I am not sure what exactly is wrong with my post, it remains true that an Orthodox church not in communion with Rome is not a valid religion in the sense that you cannot leave the Catholic church and become a member of this schismatic church without offending the Holy Spirit. You will have left the fullness of truth for a fragmented, lacking, form of truth.

God Bless.
 
As far as I know (which is little) the difference is ‘only’ the Pope however; inside of that term are several different reasons.
 
While I am not sure what exactly is wrong with my post, it remains true that an Orthodox church not in communion with Rome is not a valid religion in the sense that you cannot leave the Catholic church and become a member of this schismatic church without offending the Holy Spirit.
I could be wrong, but I didn’t think you were appointed as the official spokesperson for the Holy Spirit. 🙂

I do agree that your church does not want you or anyone else to convert to Holy Orthodoxy. Orthodox feel the same way about their members converting to Roman Catholicism. Essentially one who leaves the community is left to the mercy of God.

However, your church has publicly stated that the Orthodox have valid sacraments. That has to mean the the Holy Spirit is fully functioning in Orthodoxy, and has been. It further means (from a Roman Catholic perspective) that Orthodox and Roman Catholics are already concelebrating the one eternal cosmic Divine Liturgy.

Can you point to what your church says officially on the subject? I would like to see if your church agrees with you about this ‘offense’.
 
I could be wrong, but I didn’t think you were appointed as the official spokesperson for the Holy Spirit. 🙂

I do agree that your church does not want you or anyone else to convert to Holy Orthodoxy. Orthodox feel the same way about their members converting to Roman Catholicism. Essentially one who leaves the community is left to the mercy of God.

However, your church has publicly stated that the Orthodox have valid sacraments. That has to mean the the Holy Spirit is fully functioning in Orthodoxy, and has been. It further means (from a Roman Catholic perspective) that Orthodox and Roman Catholics are already concelebrating the one eternal cosmic Divine Liturgy.

Can you point to what your church says officially on the subject? I would like to see if your church agrees with you about this ‘offense’.
I think there needs to be a little clarification here. It sounds like the discussion may be headed south, if we’re not careful

Yes, the Catholic Church recognizes that Orthodox sacraments are valid.

But the Catholic Church also teaches a few things that the Orthodox reject - the primacy of Peter and the like. Because we think these truths were given to us by God, we must believe that anyone who does not hold them is incorrect and not following the fullness of the faith as entrusted to the Church. This is not meant to attack anyone or insult anyone, it’s just a logical consequence of what it means to disagree.

Hence we logically must believe that to go from Catholicism to Orthodoxy is to reject at least part of the truth entrusted to the Church by the Holy Spirit. For it to be rejecting the Spirit Himself, of course, it must be done knowingly - which seems unlikely, I can’t imagine anyone who would consciously do something in opposition to the Holy Spirit would want to go to Orthodoxy, as as far as I know you people aren’t terribly fond of that notion either - but a rejection of truth would in fact be going on. Again, this is not an insult or attack, it is simply the result of us being in Schism and each side thinking that it is right.

So we can say things like “rejecting [part of] the truth of the Holy Spirit” because that truth is present in the Catholic Church and less present elsewhere, so to move from the Catholic Church to elsewhere must be to reject some truth. To admit otherwise would be to admit that the Catholic Church is wrong, and if we were willing to admit that we wouldn’t be Catholic anymore.

And yes, we know that the Orthodox could and do say similar things about us, but that really doesn’t affect things from the Catholic point of view and, being Catholic, I think you can guess which point of view we tend to write from.

What I do not know, and what Google has so far not yielded to me, is whether or not attending an Orthodox Liturgy would satisfy the Sunday Obligation. The question is not whether or not it would be a valid celebration of the Eucharist and/or a participation in the eternal Mass - it is, certainly - but whether or not attendance satisfies the legal requirement the Church has the authority to require. The answer to that question does not depend on whether or not the Liturgy is valid, or how correct or incorrect Catholics or Orthodox are, but on what is written in whatever book holds those types of laws.

But what I do know is that no Catholic can say that switching from Catholicism to Orthodoxy is a valid (not using the word “valid” to refer to the nature of the sacraments) move to make because we think that the Orthodox are incorrect, and it is never valid to move from full truth to not as full truth. And I also imagine that the Orthodox have the same opinion about us - this is the result of the whole stupid schism thing - but again, guess which point of view Catholics hold.
 
The Catechism of the Catholic Church affirms that “Outside the Church there is no salvation” read paragraphs 846 & 847 carefully along with paragraphs 836, 837 & 838.

A baptized Catholic should never walk away to another Christian Faith regardless of how little would be needed for that Faith to attain the fullness of the Catholic Church.
 
The Catechism of the Catholic Church affirms that “Outside the Church there is no salvation” read paragraphs 846 & 847 carefully along with paragraphs 836, 837 & 838.

A baptized Catholic should never walk away to another Christian Faith regardless of how little would be needed for that Faith to attain the fullness of the Catholic Church.
True, however the people in the Church includes more than those in full visible communion with the Catholic Church.

CCC 837ish said:
"Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of salvation given to the Church together with her entire organization…

“The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter.”…

846…Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

But I think that would be a different thread. It is certainly true that leaving the Church is not good, however, and leaving it knowing what you are leaving is extremely bad.
 
True, however the people in the Church includes more than those in full visible communion with the Catholic Church.
Exactly why I said to “read paragraphs 846 & 847 carefully along with paragraphs 836, 837 & 838” It is clear who is and who isn’t in the Church and as someone quoted reads “**they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded **as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.”
It is certainly true that leaving the Church is not good, however, and leaving it knowing what you are leaving is extremely bad.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church makes it clear that it is more than just “extremely bad” for a Catholic leave the Catholic Church, it’s a forfeiture of the very posibility of eternal salvation. Someone who was born outside of the Catholic Church and never learned that Jesus established the Catholic Church and never became a Catholic may still have the possibility to be saved through the Church.
 
The Catechism of the Catholic Church makes it clear that it is more than just “extremely bad” for a Catholic leave the Catholic Church, it’s a forfeiture of the very posibility of eternal salvation. …
I am glad to see a Roman Catholic post these things.

Not that I believe them, I don’t, but too many are wishy washy about it.
 
Yes, the Catholic Church recognizes that Orthodox sacraments are valid.
… and therefore imbued with the Holy Spirit. 👍
But the Catholic Church also teaches a few things that the Orthodox reject - the primacy of Peter and the like.
That is not true.

Orthodox understand the primacy of Saint Peter.

It is the Roman Catholic theory of Supremacy, not Primacy, that Orthodox object to.
 
Thank you all for the replies

Ive read how the Catholics see the Orthodox sacraments as illicit as they are in schism from Rome,so can see why Catholics discourage it

…I just dont quite get how Jesus Christ can be present in their Eucharist and give them eternal life but its seen as something for Catholics to avoid…and seen as illicit

For the fulness of truth and salvation is it best to have in our life-

JESUS+POPE

compared to just

JESUS with NO POPE

Do the Orthodox need the Pope as well as Jesus for salvation or can they be saved with just Jesus and no Pope

Maybe the Orthodox hang clothes on the clothesline with out a peg,the peg being the Pope

Or maybe the Orthodox eat Oranges without the Juice,the juice being the Pope

Or watching a tv without a control
Or driving a car with flat tyres
Or washing clothes with no soap
Or drinking sodapop with no fizz

The Orthodox must be missing the secret ingredient to salvation which is the Pope
 
Well it seems that the Pope and unity with him is what makes the difference between the two and what makes the EO sacraments illicit

It is not recomended for Catholics to go to EO because they will seperate from St Peters successor the Pope

So Catholics have POPE+JESUS

But EO have only JESUS

Anyone have good info about significance of Pope? and being in union with him?

God Bless the POPE

VIVA LA PAPA
 
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