Tis_Bearself
Patron
I have no idea, but I notice Jesus had the same problem with the Pharisees and Sadducees, so it must be some sort of human nature for humans to want to lecture other humans on how to go about their business.
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friardchips
Guest
A couple of points:
People think that praying is the same as reading. There is such a thing as spiritual reading but prayer is still prayer.
Prayer is not just about what we are doing. Most prayer consists of listening. Yes, spiritual reading can incorporate allowing the words to sink in prayerfully, and God speaks through Scripture, but at Church surely God just wants people to be there with Him, fully present, as He is with us. Especially in the circumstances that the OP was describing: the situation described is a prayerful one whereby people can sit there and be open to God. Instead He is there, while we are what…looking down into our technological devices. How is that listening?!
I must admit, I don’t mind people looking at books when there. If people need to look at a book then they need to look at a book. Whatever helps them. That is their business.
But I think technological advancements that so often represent addictions to worldly indulgence is a step up from paper products and are to a large degree out of place in a holy environment.
Well, I do this and so there is nothing wrong, is not an answer, as the OP felt as if such behaviour was not in accordance with a prayerful environment the OP was in, and that this was an annoyance. So surely a little empathy wouldn’t go amiss.
J
JimR-OCDS
Guest
Whether the woman in front was reading scripture, praying or actually talking on the phone, she’s suppose to be silent. Even prayers are to be said in silence.
The other woman probably forgot to turn off her phone. Forgive her, it was an accident.
Wish we still had our adoration chapel. I miss it!
Jim
The other woman probably forgot to turn off her phone. Forgive her, it was an accident.
Wish we still had our adoration chapel. I miss it!
Jim
Tis_Bearself
Patron
I doubt that God felt I “wasn’t paying attention” when I used my iPhone to pull up the Lectio Divina for the day, or the Divine Mercy chaplet opening and closing prayers when I was trying to learn them and did not have them memorized. I am also part of a novena group currently where the priest directing the group posts daily meditations on a website. I also doubt God would feel slighted if, when my elderly mother was seriously ill in the hospital, I might look at my phone to see if there had been any urgent call from her doctor.
Having said that, I also noted in the thread that I try to avoid using the iPhone in a church setting where other people can see me because they get upset by it even if the phone is not making noise or otherwise distracting. I find this a bit nosy and not very logical on their part, but I accept it. But when someone goes so far as to say “reading” is not “adoring” when the churches themselves provide a large amount of devotional material to read and help us adore, that’s going too far.
Having said that, I also noted in the thread that I try to avoid using the iPhone in a church setting where other people can see me because they get upset by it even if the phone is not making noise or otherwise distracting. I find this a bit nosy and not very logical on their part, but I accept it. But when someone goes so far as to say “reading” is not “adoring” when the churches themselves provide a large amount of devotional material to read and help us adore, that’s going too far.
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friardchips
Guest
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p4s1c1a3.htm
*'I. BLESSING AND ADORATION
2627 Two fundamental forms express this movement: our prayer ascends in the Holy Spirit through Christ to the Father - we bless him for having blessed us;97 it implores the grace of the Holy Spirit that descends through Christ from the Father - he blesses us.98
2628 Adoration is the first attitude of man acknowledging that he is a creature before his Creator. It exalts the greatness of the Lord who made us99 and the almighty power of the Savior who sets us free from evil. **Adoration is homage of the spirit to the "King of Glory,"100 respectful silence in the presence of the “ever greater” **God.101 Adoration of the thrice-holy and sovereign God of love blends with humility and gives assurance to our supplications.’
*
Spiritual reading is not the same as prayer:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritual_reading
St. Bernard of Clairvaux said that “spiritual reading and prayer are the arms by which hell is conquered and paradise won.”
(Obviously Scripture is prayed - as well as read - as is the LOTH and other devotional practices).
My main point is not that we can’t look in prayer books with the intention of praying but that we should be quiet about it.
And also that technology seems a bit out of place in terms of reverence.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
With all due respect, I think you are splitting hairs, and I’m not sure what point you are trying to make other than confirming the original post that began this sub-discussion, that humans enjoy lecturing other people on how they “should” pray, or if “pray” is the wrong word, “adore”, or “carry out devotions” etc. etc. Have a nice day.
K
Kay_Cee
Guest
My daughter, who is a grad student at Stanford, had to study for a Final, but she also wanted to attend Eucharistic Adoration. She asked me if Jesus would think it was okay if she took her textbook with her because there was one problem she needed to figure out how to do–and if she didn’t she wouldn’t pass the test and would end up kicked out of grad school.
I told her that Jesus would probably prefer that she visit Him in the Eucharist and keep Him company even if it meant she had to study. I also suggested that, while she was there, she should pray to the Holy Spirit for wisdom in solving this problem.
So she went to Eucharistic Adoration and studied while she was there. When she left, she still didn’t know how to do that problem.
The exam was the next day. Fifteen minutes before the test was scheduled to begin, she figured it out.
And that changed everything. Because she passed, she was able to stay in college–and that’s why she met her future husband in Stanford’s Catholic Club. They got married this past April and spent their honeymoon in Rome (even got to shake hands with the Pope).
I don’t think there’s a “one size fits all” way to do Eucharistic Adoration.
I told her that Jesus would probably prefer that she visit Him in the Eucharist and keep Him company even if it meant she had to study. I also suggested that, while she was there, she should pray to the Holy Spirit for wisdom in solving this problem.
So she went to Eucharistic Adoration and studied while she was there. When she left, she still didn’t know how to do that problem.
The exam was the next day. Fifteen minutes before the test was scheduled to begin, she figured it out.
And that changed everything. Because she passed, she was able to stay in college–and that’s why she met her future husband in Stanford’s Catholic Club. They got married this past April and spent their honeymoon in Rome (even got to shake hands with the Pope).
I don’t think there’s a “one size fits all” way to do Eucharistic Adoration.
S
Sarcelle
Guest
Reverence is in the heart of the worshipper. It is not dependent on the absence or presence of technology.
I use my iPad to pray my daily prayers, from the Divine Mercy Chaplet to the rosary.
Whether I am reverent or not is not for you to judge.
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friardchips
Guest
No one is judging anyone’s soul. But there are objectively things that are outward signs of reverence just as their outward expressions of lack of reverence.
Internet in the House of God seems out of place.
P
pensmama87
Guest
Except that people using their phones at the dinner table are distracting themselves from being present. The phone isn’t being used to facilitate conversation or interaction with the others present, it’s a distraction.
I agree with you about the “aesthetics,” for lack of a better word, of using smartphones or tablets in a sacred space. There’s just something about the feel of paper or the leather cover of a Bible or prayer book, that a glowing screen can’t do. I get that. I’m just reluctant to put a moral qualifier on it.
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pianistclare
Guest
+1
I prefer to simply talk to God in my own, awkward way.
I don’t get people who use apps in Church. To me, and for myself, apps are for those “other” times of prayer when I need help. Plus, when reading someone else’s reflections, or someone else’s prayers, I feel like I’m just reading, not really giving of myself, But, that’s just me. Apparently loads of people do this and get much out of it. I’t just not for me.
:twocents:
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Rosebud77
Guest
So no mass online either?
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Rosebud77
Guest
Feeling for the lady who probably forgot to turn her phone off…
The Father Guardian at Franciscan Friary I used to go to Mass at was a keen gardener and on one occasion was almost late for Mass.
Suddenly the “pink Panther” theme resounded… he had put his habit on fast over his gardening clothes and forgotten to turn his phone off. He was totally and utterly mortified and as he could not easily access his phone had to go out of chapel.
These things happen
Wondering why though it was such a distraction else?Does texting make a noise? If we are focussed on prayer? Books? Are not adoration. Maybe the only quiet some folk get though?
The Father Guardian at Franciscan Friary I used to go to Mass at was a keen gardener and on one occasion was almost late for Mass.
Suddenly the “pink Panther” theme resounded… he had put his habit on fast over his gardening clothes and forgotten to turn his phone off. He was totally and utterly mortified and as he could not easily access his phone had to go out of chapel.
These things happen
Wondering why though it was such a distraction else?Does texting make a noise? If we are focussed on prayer? Books? Are not adoration. Maybe the only quiet some folk get though?
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friardchips
Guest
“Internet in the House of God” incorporates everything done “online” in the House of God because to be active on the ‘Internet’ is to be “online”.
A
Anne1964
Guest
I pray the Liturgy of the Hours online in church. I am careful to keep my phone low in my lap so the light from it doesn’t distract people.
I also use a journaling app where I write my thoughts during meditation. Granted, I do not use my journaling app unless I am sitting at the back of the Adoration Chapel or am in a church on my lunch hour when I am alone.
I really don’t see the difference between using my iPhone for these activities vs. using books and a paper and pen journal. Using my phone is quieter that flipping through pages in a book or handwriting in my journal.
When I meditate the way I pray is to write the thoughts that come to my mind after I have meditated and then asked God for guidance. It is amazing to me how many times the Holy Spirit speaks to me as I am writing. I get sudden insights and write them down and it is clear that the Holy Spirit was speaking to me through my pen.
I double and triple check my phone to ensure the sound is turned off, however, when I was caring for my aunt with the help of Hospice and again, when I was caring for my mother with the help of Hospice I did keep my phone on vibrate during Mass in case I received an emergency call and I did indeed leave on one occasion before Mass began as a result of an emergency call concerning my mother.
Different people have different ways of praying. St. Teresa of Avila reached a point in her spiritual life where she could not meditate in chapel without having a book with her to read from. Sometimes I can be in Adoration for an hour and my prayer flows almost effortlessly and other times I engage in spiritual reading.
These are just individual preferences. Not everyone prays in the same way and that’s ok.
I also use a journaling app where I write my thoughts during meditation. Granted, I do not use my journaling app unless I am sitting at the back of the Adoration Chapel or am in a church on my lunch hour when I am alone.
I really don’t see the difference between using my iPhone for these activities vs. using books and a paper and pen journal. Using my phone is quieter that flipping through pages in a book or handwriting in my journal.
When I meditate the way I pray is to write the thoughts that come to my mind after I have meditated and then asked God for guidance. It is amazing to me how many times the Holy Spirit speaks to me as I am writing. I get sudden insights and write them down and it is clear that the Holy Spirit was speaking to me through my pen.
I double and triple check my phone to ensure the sound is turned off, however, when I was caring for my aunt with the help of Hospice and again, when I was caring for my mother with the help of Hospice I did keep my phone on vibrate during Mass in case I received an emergency call and I did indeed leave on one occasion before Mass began as a result of an emergency call concerning my mother.
Different people have different ways of praying. St. Teresa of Avila reached a point in her spiritual life where she could not meditate in chapel without having a book with her to read from. Sometimes I can be in Adoration for an hour and my prayer flows almost effortlessly and other times I engage in spiritual reading.
These are just individual preferences. Not everyone prays in the same way and that’s ok.
L
LilyM
Guest
St Teresa of Avila prayed in ways that scandalised some of those around her.
There is a great story about her praying once while using the bathroom. A devil appeared in front of her and mocked her for doing so. Her response was “what comes out of my mouth is for God, what comes out of the other end is for you, devil!”
I have a feeling she would be all for people praying in whatever way suited them. Personally I don’t think there’s a meaningful difference between someone using a Rosary app and someone using Rosary beads. Which can be distracting in their own way, as St Therese of Lisieux found when she was discombobulated at prayer by the jangling beads of one of her fellow.nuns.
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ToeInTheWater
Guest
I recall that anecdote too. It certainly changed my perception of Catholic Saints and made her appear very human.St Teresa of Avila prayed in ways that scandalised some of those around her.
There is a great story about her praying once while using the bathroom. A devil appeared in front of her and mocked her for doing so. Her response was “what comes out of my mouth is for God, what comes out of the other end is for you, devil!”
As a previous poster noted, there was a time when printed books would have represented the “latest technology” as well.
I sense a lot of pride in some responses to this situation, as well as a lack of charity, assuming people using electronic devices in Church must lack respect for Christ, the first post didn’t even consider the possibility that the woman using the phone was using a devotional app, but assumed she must be texting about something frivolous.
I appreciate the variety of approaches to spirituality present in the Church. But I am saddened at how many Catholics assume “what works for me works for everyone else, and if it doesn’t, it should”. This “my devotion/approach to spirituality is obviously superior to every other option, so everyone should follow what I do” is very prideful.
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pianistclare
Guest
It’s way more prevalent on CAF though. People come here to advance their notions, not necessarily fall in line with the Church many times. People who feel they have no voice ten to land here… online to vent. There’sat least 3 threads a day like that.
All it would take is a visit with the Pastor, but then, they run the risk of hearing what you just said. And they don’t wan’t it to be known how unhappy they are. Because when people don’t care for a parish’s way of doing things, they just leave and go elsewhere. Or they are told they should go elsewhere.
Just my 2 cents.
All it would take is a visit with the Pastor, but then, they run the risk of hearing what you just said. And they don’t wan’t it to be known how unhappy they are. Because when people don’t care for a parish’s way of doing things, they just leave and go elsewhere. Or they are told they should go elsewhere.
Just my 2 cents.
I recall that anecdote too. It certainly changed my perception of Catholic Saints and made her appear very human.
As a previous poster noted, there was a time when printed books would have represented the “latest technology” as well.
I sense a lot of pride in some responses to this situation, as well as a lack of charity, assuming people using electronic devices in Church must lack respect for Christ, the first post didn’t even consider the possibility that the woman using the phone was using a devotional app, but assumed she must be texting about something frivolous.
I appreciate the variety of approaches to spirituality present in the Church. But I am saddened at how many Catholics assume “what works for me works for everyone else, and if it doesn’t, it should”. This “my devotion/approach to spirituality is obviously superior to every other option, so everyone should follow what I do” is very prideful.
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Rosebud77
Guest
I am a simple soul and comprehending your real meaning here is totally beyond my tired old brain.
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Rosebud77
Guest
Still wondering if, how and why folk are noticing that folk are using phones in eg “adoration” if no voice heard?
It is that they are not concentrating themselves? Or …policing… others?
It is that they are not concentrating themselves? Or …policing… others?
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